Modern safety features - "upgrading" from an older machine

[WinterDeere]

Re: Modern safety features - "upgrading" from an older machine

I was like screeeeew thiiiiiiiis!!!, found the rio switch where it mounts, ripped it out where the reverse pedal hits it, zip-tied it outta the way. End of story.

I haven稚 gotten that far, my machine isn稚 due to arrive for another three weeks, but I think there might be an option to disable RIO thru the dash controls on this machine. I知 not too worried about it, I only got the mid-PTO on the off chance that I want to add a front snowblower down the road, I never plan to mow with this machine. I do use the rear PTO a lot, for my 3-point snowblower, fertilizer spreader, boom sprayer, and brush hog, but the RIO isn稚 active until you switch to mid-PTO. I am interested to hear it痴 a mechanical lockout you can disable, tho, at least on some machines.

My 2025R JD does not require you to set the brake when you get off of it but it does require it to be in neutral. I had mine start to roll away on me once when I didn't get the brake set.

Holy crap, that has to be the dumbest 都afety feature I致e ever seen! Of course, we壇 be much better off leaving the gear engaged, if the brake doesn稚 need to be set. I知 really surprised to hear it works this way, but I never tested getting off the machine without setting the brake, I only tried getting off without setting gear to neutral.

On my 855, I almost always set the brake, but I have never had any reason short of towing the machine to shift it into neutral.

The need to hit the pto switch to back up while the pto is running is stupid. How is it safer to look at the dash to find the pto button instead of just looking backwards?

Agreed. It is a very poorly thought-out system, likely devised by lawyers, not users or engineers.

The only safety I'm in favor of is the tractor shutting down the pto when your butt leaves the seat. If I somehow fall off the tractor while mowing, I want that mower deck turning off, just in case my hand or foot somehow wedges under that deck.

The 855 system is great, it only shuts off the PTO if your butt leaves the seat, it doesn稚 kill the entire tractor ignition. The down side to this system is that an implement can continue to freewheel awhile, whereas killing the ignition will stop most implants cold in their tracks.

Only slowly. A HST machine that you put in neutral can roll quite rapidly.

Amen, brother.

Before I would disable anything I would give it a month. It could become a "muscle memory" thing where you just do it without thinking. I shortened my ROPS so I could leave it up all the time. Now I fasten my seatbelt every time I move the tractor, it is just second nature. If after a month it still really annoys you do what you want.

Doug in SW IA

Yep, thatç—´ my usual way of going about these things. Just mentally preparing myself, here.

Don't worry about idling. When your machine eventually needs a regen, it will perform it.

Yeah, but with my luck that will be just as I知 finishing with my snow blowing, and backing it into the shed so I can head to work in the morning!

As far as safety features, does Deere "require" you to set neutral and the parking brake on an HST machine?

It definitely requires you to shift to neutral, I tested that (by accident, several times) myself, at the dealership. I never tested neutral without brake.

That's one thing mine does NOT have. I can change direction at will while mowing or tilling.

What model year? What brand?

I have a newer JD 2025r. Probably similar to yours in terms of safety items. Yes you have to put it in neutral but you don� have to set the brake but should.

Amazing. I can稚 understand why they would require a shift to neutral, but not application of the brake!

Some like their feet, others don't. Remember, HST machines can creep if they fall out of adjustment. Brakes are there for a reason.

Yeah, but I don稚 have trouble keeping my HST pedals adjusted for no creep, whether weæ±*e talking about my 1986 Deere 855 or my 1963(?) Cub Cadet 123 HST. Itç—´ just basic maintenance, and I知 an adult. No need for a nanny, even if sheç—´ wearing green and yellow.

Generally new tractors over 25 horsepower will have a diesel particulate filter (DPF), tractors of under 25 horsepower do not. I have a 2019 L2501 Kubota and it's almost as straightforward and simple as my 1974 Mitsubishi. The only time I can't get off the seat without killing the engine is when the PTO is engaged. It is HST and I can leave it in gear with the engine running, not set the brake, and climb off with no problem. I know nothing about Deere other than they're green and yellow, oh and the new compact ones have Yanmar engines and are assembled in Augusta, GA.

My 1986 Deere 855 is a Yanmar, and so was my 1976 Deere 750, so that痴 nothing 渡ew to Deere. In fact, Yanmar made the entire 855 tractor, as I understand it.

I do wonder why Deere has made some of these safety feature decisions. If it is true that Kubota has not done the same, then it would appear there are no safety laws requiring them to make these apparently poor and frustrating decisions.

 

[aczlan]

It's interesting, looking at the lawn mower side, Deere requires you to push the RIO button every time you want to back up.
Other manufacturers such as Cub Cadet and Husqvarna have a key switch with one option to push the button every time you backup and one option to push the button once and then you do not have to push it again when backing up until you turn the key off.
Personally, I see the Deere way as being a safety concern as if you are in a situation where you need to back up quickly (such as you went a little too far and are starting to slide down a hill and you need to back up before you get past the point of no return) it will shut the mower off rather than letting you back up.

Aaron Z

 

[Slowpoke Slim]

Don't worry about idling. When your machine eventually needs a regen, it will perform it. The Kubotas start flashing an "RPM-Up" warning light if you aren't working at a high enough RPM, in addition to a light indicating a regen is occurring. Probably the Deeres have something similar. I've had two Kubotas with DPFs that perform regens and I've never worried about idling for too long. Last fall I was working out in the field trimming a waterline at night; I left my Kubota idling for an hour and a half just to provide lighting. Not a care in the world, and nothing bad happened to the machine, either. Idling a lot simply means the DPF will fill up a little faster with soot, and you'll need to regenerate more often. No big deal.

That is only true if the tractor in question has an active regen system. Many don't. They are entirely passive systems. In those cases it IS a big deal. Which is why your advice is so bad.

The best advice is to say "follow your owners manual". On a passive system, the owners manual usually states what rpm range to run the engine in. Or talk to your dealer.

 

[LouNY]

I never cease to be amazed at all the inter locks on the scut's and cut's;
My tractors have no seat switches, the pto will run in park, forward, neutral, or reverse.
The engines will run till I shut it down.
One thing I like on my 8050 is if the parking brake is set the power shuttle will not engage,
it just beeps till I release it.
Many of the newer ones have lift arm and even pto switches on the rear fenders.

 

[Jstpssng]

^^^^
In theory, most of the people running equipment of the class you own have some experience, or at least a little training.

Disconnecting the seat safety was one of the first things I did when I got my tractor home. I wear my seat belt most of the time, but sometimes have to stand up to get a log onto the forks or to see what's going on with the bucket. I generally ground the loader and implement before getting off, and/or set the brake.

If somebody else was using the tractor though I would hook the seat switch back up; all that's holding it open is a piece of cheap wire.

 

[Diggin It]

I never cease to be amazed at all the inter locks on the scut's and cut's;

Remember the other thread though about SCUTs and backhoes and the comment about them being more for homeowners and hobby farmers. Those buyers aren't used to the bigger AG machines.

 

[4570Man]

Modern safety features - "upgrading" from an older machine

I was going to disable the clutch depress safety on my M59. It really annoyed me not being able to start it with the seat turned backwards. Then I realized that if I applied the rear parking brake it would start. I don’t like the nearly useless rear parking brake either. If it wasn’t a welded bracket I’d take it off. They decided the seat safety wasn’t a useful piece on a construction backhoe. The M59 or my 310 doesn’t have one.

 

[WinterDeere]

It's interesting, looking at the lawn mower side, Deere requires you to push the RIO button every time you want to back up.
Other manufacturers such as Cub Cadet and Husqvarna have a key switch with one option to push the button every time you backup and one option to push the button once and then you do not have to push it again when backing up until you turn the key off.

I have seen several mentions of Deere having some way to disable this system via dashboard controls, but I can find no mention of it in the operator’s manual. This would be an acceptable solution, but again... where’s the documentation?

Personally, I see the Deere way as being a safety concern as if you are in a situation where you need to back up quickly (such as you went a little too far and are starting to slide down a hill and you need to back up before you get past the point of no return) it will shut the mower off rather than letting you back up.

Agreed. Killing the engine is the last thing anyone needs in any such situation. It should have been set up to just shut off the PTO, if anything at all.

That is only true if the tractor in question has an active regen system. Many don't.

Valid point. But keep in mind I started this thread to discuss the safety and regen features on the Deere 3033R, as outlined in the original post, which has an active regen system.

 

[Slowpoke Slim]

Yes, I know. But trover made his reply as a general comment, not quoting your deere post. And said since his Kubota did it that way, that there was nothing to worry about. Not all tractors do an active regen. That is all.

Enjoy your new deere.

 

[WinterDeere]

Thanks! I have mixed feelings about it, given the tier 4 and safety features. I’m going to miss the simplicity of my 855, but maintaining that old machine is taking more time out of my life than I can presently spare.

 

[Daryl249]

The seat safety switches can usually be defeated easily. However, I've never done it - you just get accustomed to getting out of the seat with the tractor stopped and your PTO off and your feet off the pedals.

This works mostly fine right up until you have something like a PTO chipper. Then it's time to get rid of the nannies (or at least have a switch or jumper you can easily and quickly install) unless you want to turn 1 person jobs into 2 person jobs.

 

[aczlan]

This works mostly fine right up until you have something like a PTO chipper. Then it's time to get rid of the nannies (or at least have a switch or jumper you can easily and quickly install) unless you want to turn 1 person jobs into 2 person jobs.

Our Kubota L3830 is set up such that if you flip the seat forward before you turn on the PTO, it runs just fine. If you turn on the PTO with the seat down it will turn off unless you were sitting in it.

Aaron Z

 

[Daryl249]

Our Kubota L3830 is set up such that if you flip the seat forward before you turn on the PTO, it runs just fine. If you turn on the PTO with the seat down it will turn off unless you were sitting in it.

That seems pretty well thought out. I'm taking delivery of a B2650 today and will give that a try before doing anything more aggressive. Thanks!

 

[Reb954]

Reading some of these posts makes me appreciate my tractor even more. The only safety feature related to this thread is I have to be sitting in the seat to start it which is fine with me. But at 65 hp I'm not sure mine would be considered a CUT or not, maybe that is the difference.

 

[WinterDeere]

This works mostly fine right up until you have something like a PTO chipper. Then it's time to get rid of the nannies (or at least have a switch or jumper you can easily and quickly install) unless you want to turn 1 person jobs into 2 person jobs.

I believe all modern Deere’s can run the rear PTO just fine with the operator out of the seat and the tractor in neutral. The only one that relies on an operator in the seat is the mid PTO.

Our Kubota L3830 is set up such that if you flip the seat forward before you turn on the PTO, it runs just fine. If you turn on the PTO with the seat down it will turn off unless you were sitting in it.

This is how my old 855 works, for the rear PTO. On later 855’s they even eliminated the need to pull the seat up. The mid-PTO (for mower deck and snowblower) cannot be run without an operator in the seat, tho.

 

[Industrial Toys]

That Kubota set up doe seem like a great solution, until it gets older and can provide just one more, no-start scenario.

 

[aczlan]

That Kubota set up doe seem like a great solution, until it gets older and can provide just one more, no-start scenereo.

It is at the point where I need to run some contact cleaner through the switch as it occasionally gets persnickety about being all the way down (doesn't like me leaning forward in the seat).

Aaron Z