Chain sharpening difference?

[airbiscuit]

I really like the Stihl two in one files because the hit the tooth and the raker at the same time. They are a bit pricey but the files are replaceable.

Amazon.com

Tomato / Tomaaato
They keep your file at the right height in the cutter, and trim your rakers at the same time,

 

[2manyrocks]

This a new factory gullet profile out of the package for my echo. The package says to use a 5/32 file to sharpen. I don't know what chain you have.

I was resistant to buying the 2 in 1 file, but it has helped me.

 

[dodge man]

I’m using the correct file, here is a picture of a new chain on the tag on the files I bought.

A couple of pictures of teeth. I compared to my new chain. I feel the first picture I’m close on the sharpening, the second one the tooth seems straight up and down with no curve.

 

[2manyrocks]

Are you sharpening only using a file by eye? I think what has happened is the correct profile got lost while sharpening previously. In my situation, I'd cheat and use the electric grinder to get back a uniform profile.

I suspect the guys who successfully sharpen only using a file have done it so much that they've trained their muscle memory to be almost machine like in their sharpening technique.

Tempted to say cut with it if it cuts okay, but try to get the C back next sharpening?

 

[dodge man]

What I’m using has a guide.

 

[newbury]

I served a wood patternmaker apprenticeship at Caterpillar in another life. Sometimes wondering over to the metal side of the shop, the journeymen would really watch a wood guy ;<) and offer help! "Everyone strokes a hack saw and file too fast!" they'd say.

I think of those guys all the time when I file a chain. If I get just a little too fast... it skates. Slow the stroke and you'll hear/feel it chooching better. Easier to keep both sides of the chain consistent too.

Ah, sharpening by sound.
Made me look up "chooching".

 

[dadohead]

I worked at a shop where "chooching" was said by everybody. "Chooching" is a verb but is often used as a noun: "that new file tool Jim Bob bought is a skookum choocher".

 

[2manyrocks]

I made pictures of my chain that I hand sharpened. After looking at them, I can't claim mine looks any better than yours (post #83).

 

[Skeans1]

I’m using the correct file, here is a picture of a new chain on the tag on the files I bought.
View attachment 2911133

A couple of pictures of teeth. I compared to my new chain. I feel the first picture I’m close on the sharpening, the second one the tooth seems straight up and down with no curve.
View attachment 2911137

View attachment 2911140

Almost looks like you need a little more head tilt for the leading edge.

 

[dodge man]

Almost looks like you need a little more head tilt for the leading edge.

What’s that mean exactly? Have the file tilted up a little? I do tilt it up a little but maybe I need more.

 

[newkiotiguy]

Don't buy green chains get the yellow. The green is a supposedly a safer chain but I think it sucks.

 

[airbiscuit]

 

[Skeans1]

Don't buy green chains get the yellow. The green is a supposedly a safer chain but I think it sucks.

How many of you guys need a falling chain? I’d take a fair guess most don’t have the experience to honestly handle a true non kickback chain, the little bumpers are there to help with kickback from the saw bar tip more than anything. That said if they’re sharpened correctly there shouldn’t be any difference in true cut speed vs a non kickback chain.

 

[JeepHead]

When I first started, I struggled pretty bad with hand filing. It takes practice to get good at it. The 2 in 1 files makes it even easier, especially when the chains have the angle mark on the tooth. The 2 N 1 make it extremely easy to line up with those marks. After that you just need to concentrate on your level. I also never buy the safety chains because full chisel just cuts better. And I do a ton of bore cuts..

 

[John_Mc]

Don't buy green chains get the yellow. The green is a supposedly a safer chain but I think it sucks.

But that has nothing to do with the fact that his sharpening is off a bit.

 

[John_Mc]

Almost looks like you need a little more head tilt for the leading edge.

What’s that mean exactly? Have the file tilted up a little? I do tilt it up a little but maybe I need more.

I believe Skeans1 is referring to the setting on a grinder. That that setting will not apply to hand filing.

 

[John_Mc]

Without seeing you file, I can't tell if the following might be your problem. However, I have seen a number of people hand-filing with this problem, so I thought I'd share:

One common error when hand-filing is not keeping the file in the same plane throughout the stroke. Some people tend to push down on the handle as they stroke, tipping the file like a see-saw. Even with that guide trying to set the correct depth for you, if you push down on the handle end, the other end rises up. This can wipe out the point that should be on the tooth, leading to the flat looking side plate shown in some of the teeth in your picture. In addition, If you are more prone to do this when filling left-handed vs right-handed, you'll file the teeth on one side differently than the others, causing the chain to cut on a curve.

When filing, be conscious of moving the file in a straight line. You can help yourself learn the muscle memory for this by putting the saw in a vise to hold it while sharpening. (I use a stump vise, or you can clamp the bar in a bench vise, as long as it leaves the chin free to move). This frees up both hands to hold the file. One hand on the file handle, the other on the fr end of your file/guide. Instead of providing all the power for the strike with the hand pushing on the handle, think about providing half the power by pulling with the hand on the other end. (While learning the feel, you may even want most of the power to come from the pulling hand.) That two-handed method helps assure that you have a smooth, level stroke.

This problem can happen whether you are freehand filing with a round file, using the clip-on guide or using the Pferd Chains Sharp CSX/Stihl 2-in-1 (which are the same thing). The roller guide does help avoid this, since if your file is not held in the appropriate plane, it will lift up off one of the rollers.

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[dadohead]

That said if they’re sharpened correctly there shouldn’t be any difference in true cut speed vs a non kickback chain.

Thank you... I don't think green chain sucks at all. I run both and they can really chooch. For cut speed, I don't think I can tell a difference. I keep green chain on a saw because I can plunge cut with it.

 

[dodge man]

I have no intention of switching to yellow chains, I just don’t feel the need.

I’ve been sharpening my own chains for 25 years. I was thinking I was getting good results but I was probably just getting adequate results. What brought this thread up was I noticed my smaller saw was cutting better than my bigger saw.

@John_Mc I think has hit the nail on the head. I’m just not paying careful attention to it. Part of its laziness. I have a vise, I just don’t bother with it. I’ve been cutting up a lot of hardwoods lately, some of it 24 inches in diameter or bigger and it’s has some dirt on it. I think this has brought my mediocre sharpening techniques more noticeable.

Your never to old to learn. It’s easy to say I’ve been doing it this way for years I’m good. I’m going to try John_Mc techniques.

Thanks everyone for the helpful answers.

 

[RandyT]

Here are a couple of pictures. I sharpened it a few days ago before I put it away.
View attachment 2907774View attachment 2907776

Looking at the top picture it looks like the top tooth shows signs of file wobble. The next tooth down doesn't look bad, and the bottom 2 teeth need another stroke or 2 because they are still showing damaged metal. The bottom picture shows not enough hook created by the file. Either riding too high with the file, or wrong size file will cause that.