Electric service to barn

/ Electric service to barn
  • Thread Starter
#81  
I did what the local code guy told me to do... if he's not in the know... and the crew at the electric store are also wrong the same way- to the same wire...

Then I guess I'm completely comfortable being "wrong".
 
/ Electric service to barn #82  
fishpick said:
I did what the local code guy told me to do... if he's not in the know... and the crew at the electric store are also wrong the same way- to the same wire...

Then I guess I'm completely comfortable being "wrong".

I am sorry maybe I am making the wrong impression here. I do not say that you are in the wrong. I am sure they are probably right. I am just saying that what they had you do is a lot different than what I thought was the right way to go. I would like to know why I am wrong for my own improvement.
 
/ Electric service to barn #84  
mudcat said:
Maybe a code book would enlighten you.

In my honest opinion, the code book was not written to enlighten anybody. Over 750 pages, written in legalise, that nobody can understand. There is even a book of intepritations to help guide you--you can't use it to take the test or argue with the inspector, but it does exist.
One example I love is this. PVC conduit is required to be strapped at regular intervals that vary with size. There is no exception for conduit buried in the ground. What do you strap it to???
You don't strap PVC underground, common sense, I know, but the book is so full of holes, all NFPA is doing is covering their ...
#2 Al Service Cable (that is a difference) can be used for 100 amps
#2 Al Wire not good for 100 amps
 
/ Electric service to barn #89  
mudcat said:
There is a difference between being an electrician and doing electrical work.
Well we seem to be hung up on being an electrician and doing electrical work. One has a license and is probably very familiar with the electrical code. The other who does electrical work probably does not have a license and probably is not as familiar with the code. I personally have an degree in electronics. 6 years experience with high voltage radar equipment. years of experience as an industrial electrician in a steel mill where I worked on dc powered cranes with lifting capacity between 15 tons and 125 tons, various ac powered motors from 1 hp to 750 horsepower, various types of ac control drives including some that ran off of a Programmable logic controller that connected to the various cabinets with fiber optics, our own substation that could power a couple of small towns. Of course I dont have to have a license to do that. I just happen to do electrical work. I will be the first to admit that there are a lot of things that I do not know including the difference between #2 aluminum service cable and #2 aluminum wire.
 
/ Electric service to barn #90  
Well it seems I misspoke earlier, makes no difference if it is service cable or individual wires. The book says #2 aluminum is good for 75, 90, or 100 amps depending on the ambiant temperature (140, 167, or 194 degrees farenheit).
#3 copper is rated for 85, 100, or 110 amps with the same temperature restrictions.
There is a seperate table for service feeders for dwelling units which states you can use #4 copper or #2 aluminum for a 100 amp service. I was thinking this part of the code only applied to service cable which is a factory made cable with 3 or 4 wires under one jacket.
The tricky part of using the first set of numbers which would alow you to run 100 amps on #2 aluminum is that you have to derate. You have to find all the derating factors, ambient temp, number of conductors in conduit, percent fill of conduit, bundling, etc. The real killer to this, the way I was tought, is that you have to start that derating at the lowest rated temperature of any part of the system. Wire rated for 194, check; conduit rated for 194, check; wire nuts (if used) rated above 194, check; that breaker you are using ---rated for 140 or even less -- trouble. Now your #2 aluminum is rated for 75 amps and then you derate.
Or, just use the second table and put 100 amps on it and don't worry.

Familiarity breeds contempt. I have contempt for the book. The number of replies and questions in this post should show that not just any layperson can easily grasp what the intent was.

For anybody thinking of doing electrical work, if you are not familiar with what you are working on, don't do it. Call a Licensed Electrical Contractor, not just an Electrician. There is a differance. If you are prepared to tackle the job yourself, pull a permit if/as required, talk to your inspector, he is there to help you, follow his advice and you should have no problems.

As I said before, this is just my opinion, sorry for any ruffled feathers.
 
/ Electric service to barn #91  
Podagrower, No feathers ruffled here. I actually thought your post was funny. I should have use some smiley's.:)

Now Gemini5362 :confused: . Nothing was aimed your way at all. I recall a post where you said you had thick skin. That may be the case but it sure is a sensiitve coat.
 
/ Electric service to barn
  • Thread Starter
#92  
All I know is - my barn has power - 100Amps worth +/- a few... and with those 100Amps +/- a few - I can sit in there at night and stare at my tractor... :)
 
/ Electric service to barn #94  
mudcat said:
Podagrower, No feathers ruffled here. I actually thought your post was funny. I should have use some smiley's.:)

Now Gemini5362 :confused: . Nothing was aimed your way at all. I recall a post where you said you had thick skin. That may be the case but it sure is a sensiitve coat.

I am sorry that you misunderstood me. I was trying to point out that you can have a lot of electrical experience and not be a licensed electrician. The last time someone got under my skin one of the moderators deleted my posts and told me to be nice. I would be the first person to admit to not being a residential electrician which is why I did not know the difference between #2 service cable and #2 cable. I am aware of the derating values for different things. I try to just get big enough wire to handle what ever current I am going to apply to it. That way I am sure of what I am doing. One of the biggest things I have to remember when talking about being an industrial electrician versus doing residential service is that Usually no one sleeps at the work site. If something starts smoking there is hopefully someone around to notice and sound an alarm so that everyone gets out. Residential service has family's asleep a lot of the time and a fire there could have tragic consequences.

I could spice this thread up a bit and start talking about the correct way to install wire nuts if you like :)
 
/ Electric service to barn
  • Thread Starter
#98  
gemini5362 said:
oh yeah wire nuts is probably the biggerst difference in opinion of any of the threads I have personally been in.
Seriously?

Twist wires, twist on nut, wrap in electrical tape. Repeat.

:eek:
 
/ Electric service to barn #100  
fishpick said:
Seriously?

Twist wires, twist on nut, wrap in electrical tape. Repeat.

:eek:


Fishpick those of us that are making fun of this were either participants of or read the thread about wire nuts. There are several ways to do it. The way that works best for you is the proper way. You noticed earlier in your thread that i mentioned a modulator deleted my posts and told me to be nice. Take a wild guess what the topic of that thread was about. You are doing fine with your project you are doing what the experts in your area are telling you to do. I have questions about why they tell you to do certain things but they are the ones that will answer questions if you have any problems. Wire nuts can be put on different ways. Some people on here think you should twist the wires and twist the nuts on. Some think you should just put the wires together and twist the nuts. With the research that i found on the intenet either method is acceptable. There are some fuddy duddy's on here like me that like to twist the wires, solder them together and then put the nuts on them. That is way overkill and I would not reccomend to anyone you have to do it that way. It is just my preferred method
 

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