battery charger

[MF243RedTop]

I've got one similar to this ...you just can't kill it..
I would look through FB marketplace or eBay before buying one of fancy worthless new chargers ...
View attachment 4926673

Sticking to my guns here ...
New tech out ..ole tech..hell yeah..

 

[John_Mc]

Sticking to my guns here ...
New tech out ..ole tech..hell yeah..

Those old tech chargers are OK if you have a dead or low battery you want to bring up to full charge (unless the battery is sulfated, in which case the charge won't hold for long.) However, too many of those old tech chargers will cook a battery if left on long term. When I'm looking for a battery maintainer for a piece of equipment that is used only occasionally, or might sit idle for a season, I want one that I can set and forget, not one that I'll come back to and find it has boiled off electrolyte in the battery.

 

[bdhsfz6]

Years ago, I used to use a trickle charger on a timer for my seldom used batteries. I had to adjust it seasonally for temperature variations though. Worked fine until a diode failed and it completely discharged one of the batteries.

I eventually moved into the modern age and began using maintainers. Just set and forget with much less hassle and they also work with lithium batteries.

Use what works for you though. YMMV.

 

[John_Mc]

For some reason I don't understand, neither brand can be relied on to charge a completely discharged battery. To charge a totally flat battery I first hook it up to an old transformer type charger for an hour, then the BatteryMINDer or Noco can take over from there.

Part of that reason is to protect the charger from shorting out if someone plugs it in and the leads manage to touch each other. By not activating until it finds some minimum voltage, the charger is protected from that.

Older smart chargers used to have a floor voltage of something like 10 or 10.5 V. A Flooded lead-acid battery should be around 12.6 or 12.7 volts when at rest and fully charged. A starting battery which reads around 11.8-12 volts when at rest or less than 10.5 under load is considered "discharged" (deep cycle batteries are a bit different). A dead cell in a battery can often cause the battery to read around 10.5 volts at rest. Attempting to charge this battery can end up with that one cell still dead, and the other cells overcharged as the charger keeps trying to bring the battery up to full charge. If the charger continues for force this, it can be dangerous, as the cells will off-gas hydrogen if they are overcharged. The 10 - 10.5 volt cutoff was intended to indicate that "something is wrong here. You need to further test the battery before forcing a charge."

In more recent years, the manufacturers of smart chargers figured out how to test for a dead cell (beyond just measuring resting voltage). So the battery is tested periodically during the cycle. If it fails, the charger shuts off. (Some of them also will time out and shut off after some period of time, if the battery has failed to reach a full charge.) This testing ability allows them to set a much lower minimum voltage threshhold (some use as low as 1 volt) while still protecting the charger from inadvertent shorting of the leads. Some smart chargers also have a "force mode", which basically tells the charger "act like a dumb charger for a bit, then try to switch to smart mode and continue charging if the battery continues to pass smart chargers testing.

The idea of connecting a dead battery in parallel to another battery to bring it up enough for the smart charger to recognize it is sort of like a poor man's "force mode". You are using the the good battery to either bring the dead batty up, or to temporarily provide some voltage for the smart charger to sense. I'd recommend removing the battery from the vehicle when doing this and monitoring the batteries and cables for overheating. Discontinue if the battery gets too warm.

 

[John_Mc]

I eventually moved into the modern age and began using maintainers. Just set and forget with much less hassle and they also work with lithium batteries.

We have an all electric car which uses lithium batteries, and a whole pile of lithium-powered smaller devices. I've never tried a lithium battery as a starting battery in a vehicle.

Do you have experience with that? Were you able to just swap it in with no changes to the vehicle's charging system? I almost went with a lithium battery in my UTV (uses a small motorcycle sized battery). I decided to go with an AGM battery instead, when I read about some concerns with cold weather charging being a problem. (The electric car has a heating system for the batteries to bring them to the appropriate temperature when charging.) Since this is my snow plowing vehicle for all but the biggest storms (where the tractor and snow blower are called into duty), I did not want to chance it.

If you or anyone has experience with using lithium as a starting battery in cold climates, I'd love to her about how it is working out and any special precautions you need to take.

 

[bdhsfz6]

We have an all electric car which uses lithium batteries, and a whole pile of lithium-powered smaller devices. I've never tried a lithium battery as a starting battery in a vehicle.

I have this one:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CRRKRJ2S?tag=bg1-264920-20&th=1

I like it because it holds a charge when not used for a period of time. All the lead acid booster packs I've had in the past seemed to loose their charge when stored, and are next to useless when I need them most.

 

[John_Mc]

I have this one:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CRRKRJ2S?tag=bg1-264920-20&th=1

I like it because it holds a charge when not used for a period of time. All the lead acid booster packs I've had in the past seemed to loose their charge when stored, and are next to useless when I need them most.

Thanks. I do need to add a booster to my collection one of these days. Was that one of the ones that got good reviews by Project Farm?

However, I was actually asking about using a lithium battery as the actual starter battery mounted in the vehicle. I have some friends who use them in their motorcycles, but those only tend to get ridden in the warmer half of the year here in Vermont, so winter starting and recharging isn't much of a concern in that application. My UTV (a Honda Pioneer 520) gets used off and on year round. Our passenger vehicles all get used even when it's -20˚F.

 

[ultrarunner]

Those old tech chargers are OK if you have a dead or low battery you want to bring up to full charge (unless the battery is sulfated, in which case the charge won't hold for long.) However, too many of those old tech chargers will cook a battery if left on long term. When I'm looking for a battery maintainer for a piece of equipment that is used only occasionally, or might sit idle for a season, I want one that I can set and forget, not one that I'll come back to and find it has boiled off electrolyte in the battery.

The good ones often had a timer… very important.

I’ve had some success Cooking a battery and bringing it back to life…

Always outside with caps off and distilled water top off…

 

[Lavender Valley]

Chargers and batteries have become the supplier's best friends, as a battery that won't charge gets replaced. However, there is a way to trick the charger into charging a flat battery. When charging a flat battery, you will need a good battery and some jumper leads. Connect the charger to the good battery and put jumper leads to the dead battery + to + and - to - . This works well as the charger is getting the charge levels from the good battery.

 

[Too many Kubotas]

They used to, years ago.

The Noco Genius line will do 6V in addition to 12V batteries. Some of the higher amperage ones have a choice of regular 6V and 6V AGM charging profiles

BatteryTender also has some 6V chargers, but no desulfation on their chargers

The latest PulseTech has a 6 volt setting, and obviously also desulfation.

Wish it was 12 and 24 V instead as I have no real use for a 6 volt version.

 

[ultrarunner]

Thanks for the info…

I’ve got eight 12v going back to 1957

I’ve got nearly forty 6v going back to 1905.

 

[rontaki]

Thanks for the info…

I’ve got eight 12v going back to 1957

I’ve got nearly forty 6v going back to 1905.

Move over, Jay!

 

[TimberFarm]

You are correct, most tenders will not charge a dead battery. Some will and they are not cheap. I have used this one to bring back a dead battery. Just put it in supply mode until battery is charged enough for the 'tender' to finish the charge.

Ctek supply/charger

$210 Ouch!

 

[TimberFarm]

I highly recommend buying a charger equipped with desulfation mode !
Never had a battery last more than 5 years in my Ford 6610 until I bought a charger equipped with desulfation mode, the battery in that tractor is now over 10 years old and still working fine.

Your post reminded me of my old Jinma Tractor I imported from China back in 2005. That original China battery lasted me 15 years. Maybe every other year or so, in the winter I needed to give it a little "boost" by hooking my charger to it. But I didn't have to do even that until after year 10. I didn't charge the battery, I just put the charger on "start" mode and it would fire right up and last for another two years. Couldn't believe it. When I bought the tractor I looked at that battery and thought...I'll be lucky to get 2 years out of it.

 

[Too many Kubotas]

Your post reminded me of my old Jinma Tractor I imported from China back in 2005. That original China battery lasted me 15 years.

The OE battery in my '09 M6040 is still going strong, and it's very rarely on a maintainer.

Felt I should hook op occasionally during the past two "winters" when it has just sitting instead of plowing snow.

 

[MF243RedTop]

The good ones often had a timer… very important.

I’ve had some success Cooking a battery and bringing it back to life…

Always outside with caps off and distilled water top off…

Yes the old Schumacher of mine has the dial timer on it...

 

[John_Mc]

The latest PulseTech has a 6 volt setting, and obviously also desulfation.

Wish it was 12 and 24 V instead as I have no real use for a 6 volt version.

BatteryMINDer makes a 24V charger/maintainer - it isn't cheap, but it's a nice charger. (I have one of their aviation-specific 24V chargers.)

However, if you are getting your 24V by using two 12V batteries in series, there is a better way to charge them. I use a Noco Genius GenPRO10x2 on my antique military pickup's 24 Volt system. It's a two-bank onboard charger (basically two independent 10 amp 12V smart chargers in one housing). The two chargers are hardwired to each battery (via ring terminals). Charging each battery independently does a better job of keeping the two 12 volt batteries in balance.

If I had it to do over again, I'd probably go with the Gen5X2 model. (two 5 Amp chargers in one housing). It's a good bit less expensive, and since I never really let the batteries in the truck get heavily drained, I really don't need the faster charge provided by the 10 amp chargers.

 

[Too many Kubotas]

I often charge the two 12s in a 24 V system individually, but the one vehicle with four 12s usually gets charged with a NAPA 12/24 V charger, in combination with a 24 V Powerpulse desulfator.

I did charge that one with a Renogy solar setup a few times, but it seems to do more harm than good for some reason.

 

[grsthegreat]

Ive had to leave my tractor hooked to the Noco trickle charger this winter…las theres no snow. Tractor hasnt been used much.