Another Battery!

[Shenandoah MF1760]

A lot depends on the circuitry, the usage and the environment.

I have a Jayco 5th wheel that drove me crazy by destroying AGM batteries due to letting them fully discharge down to nothing.

Since I keep the trailer on property that's 100 miles from home it was difficult to spend time troubleshooting.

I finally discovered that the battery disconnect only cut out the major loads leaving parasitic loads that would eventually kill the battery over a couple of weeks or more.

In the end, I increased my battery storage capacity from 65 Ah to 200 Ah using lithium batteries connected to a separate full disconnect that still allowed 200 watts worth of solar panels to remain in circuit.

During my time replacing dead AGM batteries, I discovered that Costco had far better prices than places like AutoZone etc.

Unfortunately, lithium batteries don't take kindly to being either overcharged or rapidly discharged (i.e. starting a vehicle). the only vehicle starter batteries that are lithium tend to be for motorcycles. Even the majority of UPS systems for computers are mostly lead acid.

Too much vibration, heat, cold, moisture, dust, etc. are contributing factors to diminished battery life.

The battery is really only there to start the vehicle, once it's running it's the alternator that keeps you going. Adding a full disconnect switch isn't a bad way to help extend it's life.

 

[Grumpycat]

What is really sad is how people equate their poor experience with lead-acid starter batteries with expectations of an EV traction battery.

The two couldn't be farther apart.

"$20,000 battery every three years! You are crazy!"

After 10 years my 2013 Tesla Model S battery had fallen to 93% of it's original capacity. Meh. Nothing. Nephew was delighted to get it.

 

[lacritz]

the usual. Termanials, power to starter soloniod, problem I had with a Kioti.

 

[JRH02]

I went out to use the tractor and move some wood chips around. Turned the key and nada, zilch, no clicking, no lights on dash, nothing. 5 years and 21 days on the Legend from Napa. I was sort of surprised because ever since I put that Legend in on 8-01-2019 it's had a BatteryMinder 1500 hooked up and plugged in.

I was hoping that would get me 10-15 years of life from the battery, but nope! So I'm not sure if the battery just had a specific lifespan or if my BatteryMinder Chargers are just not up to snuff; or I was expecting/hoping for to much! Probably the last!

I guess I'll just have to stick with a 5 year lifespan on batteries. I know that's what a lot of you have all said but I was sort of hoping to beat the odds and get a battery to last for a really long time! I ran down to Napa and got another one and I'm still "hoping" for a "long" lifespan but I'm not going to hold my breath!!

$110.00 in 2019 and $224.00 in 2024, $114.00 difference for the same darn item - that "probably" won't even last 5 years this time! Go figure!!
Oh well, I need my beast to fire up at any moment that I have the need so that's what it takes. It's just sorta hard to accept that big of a change in cost for the same darn thing!!

Years ago I bought a battery disconnect for the old Kubota. I have a pigtail that fits the BatteryMinder attached to the battery + & - post clamps. It only takes a moment to open or close the disconnect. My batteries last a lot longer now and I use the disconnect ALWAYS unless I am just stopping for a short time. The 'generator' on that old unit doesn't make much power anyway.

It is curious that if I forget to open the disconnect, sometimes it's fine and sometimes the battery is pretty low. It's not like I left something 'On' that is draining the battery. I rewired almost everything on it a few years ago.

 

[Too many Kubotas]

Yep, battery disconnects can be quite helpful. The Unimogs can sit for a year or more without losing a lot of juice.

Of course, they also have two quite large batteries.

 

[John_Mc]

AGM is lead acid.

I'm assuming he was comparing the AGM to a flooded lead acid battery.

 

[John_Mc]

Never did try a gel battery, just regular wet ones and AGMs, both of which are acid based.

Probably wouldn't even know about them if it wasn't for chargers with a setting for gel batteries.

Don't bother with the gel batteries. They are extremely picky about how they are charged, and require a lower charging and float voltage than a flooded lead acid battery. A gel battery can be damaged by charging from a charger designed for a flooded lead acid or AGM battery.

Some (but not all) AGM batteries like a slightly higher charging voltage and float voltage than a flooded lead acid battery. Using a charger designed for a flooded lead acid battery on them is better than not keeping them topped off at all, but you'll get even better life and capacity using a charger with an AGM cycle. (NOTE: Last I checked, Optima batteries specified the same charging and float voltages as a flooded lead acid battery, so I use that setting on a charger with selectable charging profiles - or just use a charger designed for Flooded Lead Acid batteries.)

All three of these battery chemistries (Gel, flooded lead acid, and AGM) benefit from using a charger that is temperature compensated: The higher the temperature, the lower the charging and float voltage.

I have run into a couple of Harbor Freight chargers that are way off in their charging voltages. They seem to be all over the map. Some of them are too high (which can boil off electrolyte over time), some of and some are right in the optimum range, even when checking multiple examples of the same model of charger. If not yet run into one that is too low, but I've only checked about 5 or 6 them.

 

[Too many Kubotas]

Some (but not all) AGM batteries like a slightly higher charging voltage and float voltage than a flooded lead acid battery.

I have run into a couple of Harbor Freight chargers that are way off in their charging voltages. They seem to be all over the map.

I wish I would remember which pot to adjust for what on the early BatteryMINDers, or find my notes. After learning how to set them for more AGM friendly values I modified three of four of them, then marked them accordingly.

Didn't know that the Harbor Freight ones were off on voltages, but I'm certainly not surprised. I would never use one, primarily because I don't want to risk an entire building and its contents, or even a single vehicle, just to save a few bucks by buying the cheapest one possible.

There are plenty of extinguishers in all buildings, but why push it?

 

[John_Mc]

I wish I would remember which pot to adjust for what on the early BatteryMINDers, or find my notes. After learning how to set them for more AGM friendly values I modified three of four of them, then marked them accordingly.

If you find that info, let me know. I've got a bunch of BatteryMINDer chargers (the oldest is approaching 25 years old and still going strong).

There are a good number of AGM batteries that are fine with the flooded lead acid settings (Optima is one). Some do prefer slightly higher voltages (Odyssey is one. I checked with Yuasa for the AGM battery in my UTV. They did not give actual voltages, but said "use the AGM setting")

 

[Too many Kubotas]

Unfortunately, the odds I'll find those notes are very slim. I played around with them at about the time you got yours. Haven't lost one yet, by the way, some having run almost constantly.

Guess one of us could try tweaking one and see what happens. For some reason I think the one at the upper right is the one for voltage.

 

[John_Mc]

There are two main voltages: one for the charging phase, and one for maintenance. Does one pot adjust both?

Did you figure this out by tinkering on your own, or did the manufacturer provide some guidance?

I asked years ago whether they were contemplating making something like the model 1500 or 1510, but optimized for the higher voltage AGM batteries. They said "no", and suggested I look at the model 1200 AGM. I bought one of those, but it costs a good bit more than their entry-level 1500/1510 models. (The 1200 AGM does include more diagnostics and testing stuff on the panel, which is helpful at times, but when I really need that, I just connect my 128CEC1 for a bit.)

 

[LouNY]

All this talk about batteries and their warranties reminded me of the absolute best batteries that I ever bought.
Way back when JC Penny had their lifetime battery warranty, had several batteries in several different pickups and tractors all registered to the same truck an old 59 Chevy truck when ever one died which as I recall was every 3-5 years we'd take it in and get a new one. Did that for a lot of years till Pennys stopped their automotive section.

 

[Too many Kubotas]

There are two main voltages: one for the charging phase, and one for maintenance. Does one pot adjust both?

Did you figure this out by tinkering on your own, or did the manufacturer provide some guidance?

You're right. Thanks for refreshing my memory. Both should ideally be adjusted.

Like you I asked about AGM charging and they sent me a couple that were adjusted. Sometime later they (okay, it was the owner) told me how to do it myself.

Unfortunately, if he's even still alive, or owns the company, I doubt I could get someone there to tell me now. Then again, it's worth a try, I suppose.

 

[John_Mc]

I've also had good luck with a couple of NOCO chargers. One is a 2 bank charger with 10 amps on each bank (used in my 24V antique military pickup). The other is their small NOCO Genius 2 (2 amp, IP 65 rating =
Protected against jets of water. Limited ingress permitted.)

On my tractor I've been using one of my BatteryMINDER 1215C chargers, but not permanently mounted (It has an IP 63 rating = protection from sprays of water when case tilted up to 60˚ from vertical). I've been thinking of getting a NOCO Gen5x1 5 amp onboard battery chargers to mount permanently on my tractor. These are VERY waterproof (IP 68 = Protection against the effects of immersion in water under pressure for long periods), so no concerns if it gets rained on or snow works its way in to wherever I mount it.)

 

[John_Mc]

I have a hate relationship with batteries. I want a gadget with the following features:

• desulfator
  

  PulseTech Desufation Products | Forklift-Battery-Charger.com

  PulseTech Desulfation Products for forklift battery desulfation and maintenance, 12 volt to 48 volt models.

  forklift-battery-charger.com
  works off battery
• Wifi status reporting with open API -- works off battery
• trickle charger/minder -- requires plugging in.
• Permanently mounted

I have found products that come really close to having all of these features. I bought a Yale battery powered forklift about five years ago for basically scrap because the owner said the battery was going bad. It's still working. Not sure if its because of the desulfator, but it didn't hurt.

I could easily design one of these, but have so many other projects going. I'd have to charge at least $100 for this, and don't think anyone would buy it at that price point. Probably needs to be closer to $50.

The trouble with the things that work off the battery is that they also accelerate the drain on the battery. If I don't have it plugged in to charge, that can be a problem. (I run into that with the wireless controller on my UTV winch. Since the winch is wired directly to the battery, the receiver/controller on the winch is always on. Found that out the hard way when I first bought it.)

 

[Too many Kubotas]

I have mostly BatteryMINDer and PulseTech, but also a couple of Jacobs Electronics and a CTEK.

Often useful is an elderly Sears 2/10 Amp completely unsmart charger, generally used to slow charge dead or near dead batteries enough to make a good one recognize the battery.

 

[Too many Kubotas]

The trouble with the things that work off the battery is that they also accelerate the drain on the battery.

I've been meaning to call PulseTech and ask what cut-out voltage they use.

On the Canadus desulfators it's usually right about 13 volts, some a little less, some a bit more. Either way, once the battery drops below that threshold they turn off.

I sure hope the PulseTech ones I recently bought also shuts off, as I've mounted one in a vehicle that isn't driven often. Easy to tell with a Canadus since its indicator light is only on when pulsing, but the PulseTech is constantly blinking.

 

[Hexa Fox]

Similar to everyone else here I have researched batteries to no end and it mostly seems like a toss up. When I bought my Ferris in 2015 it had a Deka battery on it that lasted up until very recently. In the past couple of years I started having battery trouble and right away assumed it was the battery. Got a brand new battery and it died in short order. Started tracing things around and found the charging wire from the voltage regulator had broken. So it was not even the eight year plus Deka battery but it was the charging system.

Anyway I replace that battery this year with a Napa battery. I called my dealer I bought the Ferris from and he said they did not sell Deka batteries that only the Ferris' came with them. He also told me the Deka batteries from Lowes only shared the stickers but assured me they were not the same battery. I read somewhere that the batteries that come from Napa are the reliable Deka batteries. After doing a little bit of interrogation to the cashier he told me the guy that delivered their batteries was wearing a Deka shirt and that was enough for me. I actually bought that battery mid year 2023 and it is giving me trouble mid Summer this year. Right now it is holding a charge but I do not expect it to last over the Winter and be reliable next mowing season.

I know like many things there are only a few manufacturers of lawn mower batteries and like many of you I am sick of the game. The battery in my 2011 Camry went back a few years ago and I replaced it with the cheapest Wal*Mart battery possible and so far it is holding up. If I have to replace it this year I figure I have gotten my money out of it.

 

[Grumpycat]

I would caution there is only about 3 major automobile starter battery manufacturers in North America and every one of them will build a battery up to or down to what ever cost a brand is willing to pay. They will all build junk for cheap is that is all the brand is willing to buy.

For many brands they build 3 tiers of battery and are bold faced about it. Good, Better, Best. Not sure the "Best" is always the best.

 

[John_Mc]

I would caution there is only about 3 major automobile starter battery manufacturers in North America and every one of them will build a battery up to or down to what ever cost a brand is willing to pay. They will all build junk for cheap is that is all the brand is willing to buy.

For many brands they build 3 tiers of battery and are bold faced about it. Good, Better, Best. Not sure the "Best" is always the best.

True of most manufacturing. I just shake my head when someone tries to promote some cheap junk as "made in the same factory as..." It means nothing.