Barndominium/Shop or "real" House?

[GeneV]

No floor?

Including my parents' house, I lived in 4 houses with crawlspaces and rehabbed/flipped 2 more. Some had a dirt floor, a few had gravel, and then one of them was concrete.

The concrete one was a total headscratcher. It was a 4' crawl, accessible from the garage, with the furnace and water softener down there. The house was a sprawling ranch, with the furnace positioned smack center of the crawl...so doing any service to it (or checking on the sump pump way on the far side) meant duck-walking way in there. Going down there to dump salt into the water softener wasn't fun neither.

But the place was dry, insulated...I would always joke with my wife that I'll stick a couch and tv down there for my "man cave". So why in the blue hell did the original owner build this stupid setup as opposed to a basement, no friggin clue whatsoever! In this case, how much more would it be to dig deeper for a basement or make it a raised ranch? I imagine minimal cost.

 

[GeneV]

Have you looked into Structural Insulated Panels (SIPs)? If you have a contractor they go up really fast, and you are dried in shortly after that. You don’t have to hunt down framing crews, and then insulators. Biggest issue is if your electricians and plumbers haven’t built with, their quotes will be high.

I've looked into sips before, really interesting stuff that.

 

[ovrszd]

Including my parents' house, I lived in 4 houses with crawlspaces and rehabbed/flipped 2 more. Some had a dirt floor, a few had gravel, and then one of them was concrete.

The concrete one was a total headscratcher. It was a 4' crawl, accessible from the garage, with the furnace and water softener down there. The house was a sprawling ranch, with the furnace positioned smack center of the crawl...so doing any service to it (or checking on the sump pump way on the far side) meant duck-walking way in there. Going down there to dump salt into the water softener wasn't fun neither.

But the place was dry, insulated...I would always joke with my wife that I'll stick a couch and tv down there for my "man cave". So why in the blue hell did the original owner build this stupid setup as opposed to a basement, no friggin clue whatsoever! In this case, how much more would it be to dig deeper for a basement or make it a raised ranch? I imagine minimal cost.

In the situation you describe, I totally agree. Might as well of poured the additional walls.

 

[hcallaway]

Plan for the future and stairs. We were both in great shape as we looked at building when the last kid graduated from college.

In our current house which I built at age 57. I oriented the house to the slope of the land. The front door has a sidewalk that runs the width of the garage on the outside and as you approach the porch there are only 2 steps. All living is on one floor. I did it so if I needed to add a wheelchair ramp it would be maybe 12’ for a proper incline. After building ramps with my men’s group, a wheelchair ramp can end up being 40-50’ if built to code. Doorways are all wheelchair accessible etc.

Jumping to this past March 19 my wife had a Level 1 trauma car accident. She was in incredible shape so her recovery was 10 times faster than a normal person. When she was released to come home the statement that stuck with us by the occupational therapy person was; you are the first person that I have encountered that I don’t have any issues with since you have a truly accessible house.
She has since been diagnosed with Parkinson’s and thank god we have made decisions that were proactive.

Dad is 90 and mom is hanging in at 86. I may be here for a while. You never know.

 

[jigs_n_fixtures]

I’m about half way through designing an ADA compliant senior home for my older sister. One level, roll in shower, cabinets with an extra drawer layer on top, which can be removed to drop the counter tops, and the under sink plumbing arranged to go directly back and the toe kick removable, to allow conversions to roll in sinks.

I’m going with full SIP construction, becasue around here it is currently impossible to hire trades folks. SIPs eliminate framers, sheathers, and insulators. Which means I can be dried in, wrapped, and insulated in less than two weeks.

One of the local concrete suppliers, is lined up for the excavation, and basement. I have a couple of guys lined up to do the siding, trim, and roof. I can do the plumbing, electrical, and interior trim out. Still going to be spendy. And I might retire earlier than I have been planning, just to have time to do it, before next winter.

 

[ovrszd]

I’m about half way through designing an ADA compliant senior home for my older sister. One level, roll in shower, cabinets with an extra drawer layer on top, which can be removed to drop the counter tops, and the under sink plumbing arranged to go directly back and the toe kick removable, to allow conversions to roll in sinks.

I’m going with full SIP construction, becasue around here it is currently impossible to hire trades folks. SIPs eliminate framers, sheathers, and insulators. Which means I can be dried in, wrapped, and insulated in less than two weeks.

One of the local concrete suppliers, is lined up for the excavation, and basement. I have a couple of guys lined up to do the siding, trim, and roof. I can do the plumbing, electrical, and interior trim out. Still going to be spendy. And I might retire earlier than I have been planning, just to have time to do it, before next winter.

In case you haven't saw it, here's an excellent thread on building a SIPs house. Still ongoing project in it's 5th year. Lot of great info with excellent videos.

My Industrial Cabin Build

We broke ground on the homesite this weekend. As many of you know, I have been building an orchard in the Blue Ridge Mountains in Virginia. 55 acres purchased in last summer 2015. We had 20-25 acres logged, leaving us with an inordinate amount of slash and debris. We have 3 acres of Apple...

www.tractorbynet.com

 

[civilian]

One thing I didn't see with the discussion on basement or second floors. If the land elevation are such for both floors to have a walk out, that makes things easier. Ours is that way. If we can't go down the stairs in our older age, then we can always walk around. Not the ideal situation, but doable. Both the upper (main livining area to die in) and the lower basement (can be finished with future bedrooms when/if needed) have double doors for entrance and the 4ft wide stairs connect the 2 door sets. 4ft wide would allow for stair chair if wanted, but elevators are now becoming a better possibility. We also did separate 3 car garage building and a 36' x 72' workshop tractor storage. Workshop and garage have heated floors. Jon

 

[ETD66SS]

One thing I didn't see with the discussion on basement or second floors. If the land elevation are such for both floors to have a walk out, that makes things easier. Ours is that way. If we can't go down the stairs in our older age, then we can always walk around. Not the ideal situation, but doable. Both the upper (main livining area to die in) and the lower basement (can be finished with future bedrooms when/if needed) have double doors for entrance and the 4ft wide stairs connect the 2 door sets. 4ft wide would allow for stair chair if wanted, but elevators are now becoming a better possibility. We also did separate 3 car garage building and a 36' x 72' workshop tractor storage. Workshop and garage have heated floors. Jon

My lot is very close to Lake Ontario, hence the land was once under water, and is very flat. Walkouts are not an option.

And, I never thought this many people would prioritize the stairs as being such an issue. I guess maybe these forums are populated by older generations while the younger ones are are TikTok and the like lol.

 

[ovrszd]

My lot is very close to Lake Ontario, hence the land was once under water, and is very flat. Walkouts are not an option.

And, I never thought this many people would prioritize the stairs as being such an issue. I guess maybe these forums are populated by older generations while the younger ones are are TikTok and the like lol.

Yep. Most members here are past the eternally young mentality. More into the getting old reality.

 

[jigs_n_fixtures]

I learned the lesson, when my Mom started to get older, and she had me cover over the sunken living room and get all the first floor on one level. Then, six months later she had me convert the two car garage into a studio apartment, because going up the stairs scared her.

Twenty years earlier, I had access to a hydraulic car lift, from a service station i was helping convert to a C-Store, and I had offered to build her an elevator. But she didn’t like the idea. Once, she got old enough the stairs weren’t manageable, she wanted the elevator, but the pieces parts, were long gone.

 

[turbo36]

My lot is very close to Lake Ontario, hence the land was once under water, and is very flat. Walkouts are not an option.

And, I never thought this many people would prioritize the stairs as being such an issue. I guess maybe these forums are populated by older generations while the younger ones are are TikTok and the like lol.

It just so happened that I had dinner with my 69-year-old single friend last night, he has been living in a barndominium for the last 30 some years. His barn is 40 x 80 with 780 ft.² of living space on the main floor.

At first, he wished he would have built the living space on the second floor as there were times that he needed the extra space but now that he is approaching 70 he says stairs have become an issue. He suggested building a little bit bigger and keeping it on the main floor. He suggested a few things:
Build a double fire wall in between the shop and living space with double 5/8 drywall on each side of the firewalls therefore almost 3 inches of drywall. Consider a fire suppression sprinkler system for the living space.
In floor hot water heat with lot’s of floor and perimeter insulation, he stressed don’t skimp on the insulation!
A split system, air conditioning with heat for the living space.

He built the barn on 25 acres of farm land he converted to vineyards with the intention of later building a real house on the property. Initially he was worried about the resale value, but now that he is older, he doesn’t really care.

 

[ETD66SS]

I learned the lesson, when my Mom started to get older, and she had me cover over the sunken living room and get all the first floor on one level. Then, six months later she had me convert the two car garage into a studio apartment, because going up the stairs scared her.

Twenty years earlier, I had access to a hydraulic car lift, from a service station i was helping convert to a C-Store, and I had offered to build her an elevator. But she didn’t like the idea. Once, she got old enough the stairs weren’t manageable, she wanted the elevator, but the pieces parts, were long gone.

My Mom is 85 and she uses two sets of stairs regularly, carries laundry up and down both flights still. I can see for some however it is a big issue.

 

[pmsmechanic]

And, I never thought this many people would prioritize the stairs as being such an issue. I guess maybe these forums are populated by older generations while the younger ones are are TikTok and the like lol.

Years ago my wife and I bought an acreage with a small house. I decided we would all sleep in the basement and that's what we did. My reasoning was that the stairs would help keep us young. It hasn't quite worked out that way.

I'm not sorry that we built out the basement as sleeping there is a lot cooler and quieter and if I got a do over I would do the same thing. What I'm saying is don't rule out the stairs as an issue. Make plans for an alternate way of getting up the stairs because you never know what life is going to throw at you.

 

[ovrszd]

My Mom is 85 and she uses two sets of stairs regularly, carries laundry up and down both flights still. I can see for some however it is a big issue.

God Bless your Mom!!!

As I was catching up on this thread this morning I had a reflective thought moment. None of the places I frequent have stairs. My youngest Son's shop and house have one step to enter. Eldest Son has none. Farm and Home store has none. O'Reilly's has none. I did go to the Courthouse last week to discuss some Township business and they have a dozen steps to enter from the South side. They are the only stairs I've used in the last couple months.

Don't let us talk you into or out of anything. But you opened the door when you finished the thread title with a question mark (?).

 

[ETD66SS]

Well been busting my ass this weekend working on a stick frame version of my ICF house design. Still a few sheets to go. I also did design this version with a full basement under the living room as opposed to a crawl space there. Knowing what I know from previous estimates, I figure that adds probably close to $10k to the foundation.

It's unlikely I can afford to build this, but I will go through the effort of getting it quoted so I feel like I exhausted all options before choosing the Barndominium.

I surely cannot afford to build a house and a shop, so it's one or the other for now...

 

[ovrszd]

Very nice!!!! Do you have a "friendly" builder that can give you a cost "estimate" on each of your drawings without spending money to get it?

For example, I'm curious what the cost p/sqft would be on a structure like this??

Thanks for the excellent drawings!!!

 

[ETD66SS]

Very nice!!!! Do you have a "friendly" builder that can give you a cost "estimate" on each of your drawings without spending money to get it?

For example, I'm curious what the cost p/sqft would be on a structure like this??

Thanks for the excellent drawings!!!

So far builders have been basically not very engaging. In these times, I think they prefer to spit out cookie-cutter designs that they have built before so they can know their profit margin ahead of time. As of late, I am having more luck with younger builders, guys in their 30's. They seem more willing to take on new types of builds. The older builders in their 50's and 60's have been basically, kindly, telling me to go away, they don't want anything to do with my custom design. If they do give me an estimate, it's in the $400/sq-ft range as a go away price. I am still waiting for the younger builders to get me prices. In my area, a custom stick frame built home currently runs in the $250/sq-ft range. But that is if you pick a house plan that has been built before, and you're just doing minor tweaks...

 

[ovrszd]

So far builders have been basically not very engaging. In these times, I think they prefer to spit out cookie-cutter designs that they have built before so they can know their profit margin ahead of time. As of late, I am having more luck with younger builders, guys in their 30's. They seem more willing to take on new types of builds. The older builders in their 50's and 60's have been basically, kindly, telling me to go away, they don't want anything to do with my custom design. If they do give me an estimate, it's in the $400/sq-ft range as a go away price. I am still waiting for the younger builders to get me prices. In my area, a custom stick frame built home currently runs in the $250/sq-ft range. But that is if you pick a house plan that has been built before, and you're just doing minor tweaks...

Yep. And from their perspective I completely understand.

So you think you can get the Barndo built under $200/sq-ft counting the total footage? Maybe? Figuring $100 for the open shop part and $225 for the living part?

 

[ETD66SS]

Yep. And from their perspective I completely understand.

So you think you can get the Barndo built under $200/sq-ft counting the total footage? Maybe? Figuring $100 for the open shop part and $225 for the living part?

Not sure yet. I have two quotes so far for the barn shell, no concrete, no second story floor framing or stairs, just the shell. Those are both coming in at $150k. More estimates for the living space are incoming, another week or so.

I would say to build that barndominium with the garage and living space fully finished while leaving the shop side unfinished with just a stone floor is approaching $300k. The shop floor concrete alone with all the radiant heat equipment is likely $35k. Then the shop walls would need to be insulated an finished with interior steel etc.

I can't afford these numbers so will have to do as much of the work myself as possible.

 

[ovrszd]

Not sure yet. I have two quotes so far for the barn shell, no concrete, no second story floor framing or stairs, just the shell. Those are both coming in at $150k. More estimates for the living space are incoming, another week or so.

I would say to build that barndominium with the garage and living space fully finished while leaving the shop side unfinished with just a stone floor is approaching $300k. The shop floor concrete alone with all the radiant heat equipment is likely $35k. Then the shop walls would need to be insulated an finished with interior steel etc.

I can't afford these numbers so will have to do as much of the work myself as possible.

Yep, totally understand. In regards to my shop building, I hired concrete done. Hired the building erected and finished on outside as well as windows and walk-ins. I then insulated and lined the interior, hung the overheads, wired and plumbed it. Guessing I knocked $10K off the cost. Would have added $5 p/sq-ft to my cost.

Anxious to see what you end up doing. Thanks for taking time to keep us posted.