Another barn build

[Topzide]

Maybe this would be needed; www.dexpan.com

 

[hayden]

You are in a battle of wills. You against the rock. It's going to be worth it in the end, but I understand how frustrating it is to battle the land!!!!

Years ago, I was thinking of buy an excavator and an old timer told me to never buy one that had been used for jack hammering. He said that they have been abused more than any other machine, and the reason they are selling it is because it's too worn out to fix.

Ha, good thing my heads full of rocks too

I have heard the same about excavators, and it will be interesting to see what the final toll is on mine. After this it likely won't get many hours of use. So far all my bushings seem to be holding tight.

I just pulled out the stone that was the worst remaining at 3' or so above elevation, so today is an "I think I'm going to make it" day.

 

[hayden]

Maybe this would be needed; www.dexpan.com

I looked into that, but they require 1-1/2" holes drilled 80-90% of the way through the rock. That's bigger than any drill I have can handle, so I'd have to buy or rent a drill, then spend a bunch of time drilling. I figured hammering from an air conditioned cab sounded better.

 

[gstrom99]

Oh, and I just replaced the chisel AGAIN. There goes another $700.

View attachment 3884448

With a new one being $700, I'd be using up a bunch of grinder wheels to repoint the old one(s) - at least for spares.

This looks like quite the project. More than you planned on?

 

[civilian]

I would also think about repointing the chisels earlier than later. Don't let them get so flattened off before repointing. Yes it would be more often, but not as long at the grinder each time. Jon

 

[pmsmechanic]

I don't think I would use a grinder to sharped those bits. I would find or buy a carbide bladed chop saw and set it up in there and have a new point in less than 5 minutes.

 

[Peter 315]

That old bit is still good at work we would hammer that bit till it was a nub. My boss would flip out if I change that bit out....

 

[hayden]

With a new one being $700, I'd be using up a bunch of grinder wheels to repoint the old one(s) - at least for spares.

This looks like quite the project. More than you planned on?

I knew it was full of ledge, but it has definitely been more work than I expected. Moving the building is the obvious alternative, but doing so creates a bunch of other issues long term. So I’d rather put the time in now and have the building in the optimal location.

 

[hayden]

I don't think I would use a grinder to sharped those bits. I would find or buy a carbide bladed chop saw and set it up in there and have a new point in less than 5 minutes.

Would that work where a machinist said it was too hard to cut with a mill? I was wondering about cutting with an abrasive saw rather than grinding it down, thinking that would be less material to remove. Those point faces are 5”, and the chisel is 3” diameter. So it’s a lot of material to remove.

 

[hayden]

That old bit is still good at work we would hammer that bit till it was a nub. My boss would flip out if I change that bit out....

So much seems to depend on the material I’m trying to break up. Splitting granite, and breaking out the stuff around the big granite pieces definitely goes faster and easier with a good point. Softer stuff still breaks up easily a blunt tip. But I’m new to this and learning as I go.

 

[BigGG]

Would that work where a machinist said it was too hard to cut with a mill? I was wondering about cutting with an abrasive saw rather than grinding it down, thinking that would be less material to remove. Those point faces are 5”, and the chisel is 3” diameter. So it’s a lot of material to remove.

Back in the day, the blacksmith would heat it in the forge, hammer it back out and quench it. Very little waste of metal.

 

[pmsmechanic]

Would that work where a machinist said it was too hard to cut with a mill? I was wondering about cutting with an abrasive saw rather than grinding it down, thinking that would be less material to remove. Those point faces are 5”, and the chisel is 3” diameter. So it’s a lot of material to remove.

In my experience an abrasive saw would most likely work harden the bit and then it would be a bear to cut. A carbide chop saw would do it but you would have to make a fixture to solidly hold the bit so that it wouldn't move.

I'm intrigued with the idea of forging it back to a point. I never thought of that but I like the idea.

 

[hayden]

In my experience an abrasive saw would most likely work harden the bit and then it would be a bear to cut. A carbide chop saw would do it but you would have to make a fixture to solidly hold the bit so that it wouldn't move.

I'm intrigued with the idea of forging it back to a point. I never thought of that but I like the idea.

It’s hardened steel of some sort, but this is an area where I know very little. The machinist I took it to tried filing it to test the hardness, and said it was too hard to mill. Another guy I talked to said to check it with a file to see if it can be cut with a mill.

I’m guessing that if it can’t be cut with a mill, a carbine saw blade would have trouble too?

And I have no idea about the effect of heating from a grinder on hardness.

I have kept both of the old chisels in hopes of repointing if I can figure this out, so I welcome the advice. I just won’t be able to spend any time on it for a little while. I need to get this whole area cleared down to the target elevation so I can put together a profile drawing for engineering the slab and retaining walls. I’m racing to get the info before they ask for it…

 

[EddieWalker]

My first attempt would be to use a cut off blade on my 4 1/2 inch grinder. Cut off the four sides to make a point. It wouldn't have to be perfect, or even super pointy. I'd just want enough cut off so it would work for a little longer.

 

[gstrom99]

Back in the day, the blacksmith would heat it in the forge, hammer it back out and quench it. Very little waste of metal.

Great idea. Should be a few old school blacksmiths in the OP's area.

 

[pmsmechanic]

I’m guessing that if it can’t be cut with a mill, a carbine saw blade would have trouble too?

And I have no idea about the effect of heating from a grinder on hardness.

I can't say for sure on your chisels because I've never tried it but I've cut some very hard steel with ease with my carbide chop saw.

I'm not sure just how hard your chisels are but I'm thinking that it's probably just the surface that is hard. If the whole chisel was hardened then it would be quite brittle.

I have both an abrasive chop saw and a carbide tipped chop saw. The abrasive one cuts by grinding the steel away. If you cut too slowly the steel will harden under the cut. To the point where at times it's almost impossible to continue cutting.

A carbide tipped chop saw cuts by literally cutting the steel. It's a totally different process that results in curls of metal similar to a metal lathe. It does not work harden the the steel at all.

A bench grinder/angle grinder probably won't harden the chisel at all because you aren't grinding in a single area long enough to overheat the metal. Whereas the chop saw concentrates the heat in the area that you are cutting.

 

[hayden]

I can't say for sure on your chisels because I've never tried it but I've cut some very hard steel with ease with my carbide chop saw.

I'm not sure just how hard your chisels are but I'm thinking that it's probably just the surface that is hard. If the whole chisel was hardened then it would be quite brittle.

I have both an abrasive chop saw and a carbide tipped chop saw. The abrasive one cuts by grinding the steel away. If you cut too slowly the steel will harden under the cut. To the point where at times it's almost impossible to continue cutting.

A carbide tipped chop saw cuts by literally cutting the steel. It's a totally different process that results in curls of metal similar to a metal lathe. It does not work harden the the steel at all.

A bench grinder/angle grinder probably won't harden the chisel at all because you aren't grinding in a single area long enough to overheat the metal. Whereas the chop saw concentrates the heat in the area that you are cutting.

Thanks. I have an Evolution metal saw with blades for both aluminum and steel. I could give it a try.

 

[yanmars]

Would an abrasive water jet do the job?

 

[pmsmechanic]

Thanks. I have an Evolution metal saw with blades for both aluminum and steel. I could give it a try.

Just make sure the chisel is well clamped down before you try it.

 

[deezler]

Awesome project and thanks for sharing!

Would another option be to allow yourself to raise the grade of the new building by 12-18" to get the excavation done sooner? shouldn't be that awful to have a gentle ramp up into the building for your equipment storage, no?