Barndominium/Shop or "real" House?

[aircommuter]

Checkout those air operated clear plastic tube elevators.

 

[EddieWalker]

From what I've seen, a lot of home designs follow a trend just like fashion, but in homes, they seem to change every ten years, give or take. The last trend seemed to be the Farmhouse style with white board and baton exteriors, cedar posts and accents, and a massive amount of white on the interior.

Lately, I'm seeing more and more Barndominium's being built as spec homes, and new custom homes. They all seem to be based around a massive open area with the kitchen, dining and living room all together. From what I've seen, I really like the way they turn out on the inside, but I'm not a fan of the look on the outside. The all seem to sell very quickly, and from what I'm seeing, there is a demand for more of them.

I think that if you build a nice shop with a small living area, you will increase the resale value of the land if there is a place to build a nice house somewhere near by. Having a separate house from the work shop is going to give you the best price when selling in the future, especially if the house is done well, and not too unique in architecture. The A frame design will be more challenging to sell.

No matter what you think today, every house and piece of land will be sold by somebody, at some time. Building for the highest return should always be part of every decision when building anything on your land.

 

[ETD66SS]

From what I've seen, a lot of home designs follow a trend just like fashion, but in homes, they seem to change every ten years, give or take. The last trend seemed to be the Farmhouse style with white board and baton exteriors, cedar posts and accents, and a massive amount of white on the interior.

Lately, I'm seeing more and more Barndominium's being built as spec homes, and new custom homes. They all seem to be based around a massive open area with the kitchen, dining and living room all together. From what I've seen, I really like the way they turn out on the inside, but I'm not a fan of the look on the outside. The all seem to sell very quickly, and from what I'm seeing, there is a demand for more of them.

I think that if you build a nice shop with a small living area, you will increase the resale value of the land if there is a place to build a nice house somewhere near by. Having a separate house from the work shop is going to give you the best price when selling in the future, especially if the house is done well, and not too unique in architecture. The A frame design will be more challenging to sell.

No matter what you think today, every house and piece of land will be sold by somebody, at some time. Building for the highest return should always be part of every decision when building anything on your land.

That was actually the plan with the Barndominium. I am on 60+ acres, nearly fully wooded. My long term goal is if I build the shop with living space, someday I'd like to build a traditional style log home: Welcome to Handmade Houses! - Handmade Houses with Noah Bradley I am actually an LHBA member (Log Home Builders Association), took their log home class, but was not impressed with the construction methods. I also own a Hudson Oscar 330 Pro sawmill for generating logs/timbers etc.

However, in order to realize that plan I would have to be able to remove the living space from the shop (delete the kitchen & bedroom basically) and transfer it to the log home otherwise my taxes would be rather insane. I don't trust that is an easy task in New York State. Then I would convert the old living space in the shop to serve some other function. And I'd be building the log home as a retirement option so would probably do it without a basement.

But yes, I really fear the possible future nightmare in NYS of transitioning from one living space to another on the same real property. I think the town assessor would not be kind and when I'm retired I'd be paying silly taxes without any income. So that is why I redesigned my house as a stick frame to look at that approach. So that if needed, the property would likely sell easier.

 

[MHarryE]

I kind of started your way on a smaller scale and expanded. First, having parents and in-laws with mobility problems and watching others, it was single story electrical hydronic slab heat. Living area about 1800 square feet and shop area 1200 sf knowing we wouldn't be living here at first, only weekend home and shop. Once we moved 3 years later, we added an additional shop 1800 square feet and 10 years later 3600 sf for storage. All housing was post , OSB and steel. First shop, attached to living, does not have the OSB but is steel inside and outside with 10" walls. Hard to believe its been 20 years now and we wouldn't change a thing on the construction but interior. We live in Northern MN where snow loads and insulation, plus not having to bundle up to walk out to the shop are great, and our insurance person said no problem attached as long as the protection between shop and living quarters were extreme.

 

[ETD66SS]

as long as the protection between shop and living quarters were extreme

What is extreme?

 

[Henry007]

So, been wanting to build at a lot that I have owned for nearly 20 years now. I think I am finally in a position to do so, albeit at the worst time to build... That's my luck.

I have attached my shop/living space design. Talked to various residential and post frame builders. Many of them suggest bookshelf framing the garage and upper living space portion of the structure. Most of them recommend sheathing the garage and living space walls with 7/16" OSB and the living space roof with 5/8" OSB before the steel siding and roofing is installed. One of the builders thinks that's just a waste of money and that the steel provides the anti-racking for wind loads just fine. Thoughts? Will drywall in the living space be subject to more cracking without the sheathing?

The 10 X 12 OH door bay will be for a 2 post asymmetric truck lift. The 14 X 14 sheet roll doors will be in a 48 X 48 area where I'd like to have a 5-7 ton bridge crane someday. Want to go with sheet roll doors to make sure the doors do not interfere with the future shop crane.

The living space is minimal, per the municipality, I cannot go under 900 sq-ft living space, this design ends up at around 990 sq-ft.

I have also attached an ICF design as the "real" house option. Both designs are of my own making, but RA's have looked at both and they will be stamped, which is required in my area.

One of the builders is looking at both of these designs and will be pricing out the builds for me. (For either design I will be helping with labor wherever I can digging my own trenches, etc, but I do have a fulltime job) If they are similar in cost, what would you build? This would be my final residence, so the decision is a life decision...

I really want a shop ASAP because I am almost 50 years old and sick of working on my equipment outside in the weather.

At the same time, a "real" house would be nice as opposed to living in a barn. Not to mention it is an upper story with stairs that I will have to deal with the rest of my life.

If I were to build the ICF house, that puts out my shop probably at least another 5 years.

The ICF house design has a decent garage and will have provisions in the floor for the asymmetric truck lift. So I will have somewhat of a shop to tide me over until I put up a larger structure for working on my equipment. (Not an contractor of any sort, equipment is personal/hobby stuff).

So, been wanting to build at a lot that I have owned for nearly 20 years now. I think I am finally in a position to do so, albeit at the worst time to build... That's my luck.

I have attached my shop/living space design. Talked to various residential and post frame builders. Many of them suggest bookshelf framing the garage and upper living space portion of the structure. Most of them recommend sheathing the garage and living space walls with 7/16" OSB and the living space roof with 5/8" OSB before the steel siding and roofing is installed. One of the builders thinks that's just a waste of money and that the steel provides the anti-racking for wind loads just fine. Thoughts? Will drywall in the living space be subject to more cracking without the sheathing?

The 10 X 12 OH door bay will be for a 2 post asymmetric truck lift. The 14 X 14 sheet roll doors will be in a 48 X 48 area where I'd like to have a 5-7 ton bridge crane someday. Want to go with sheet roll doors to make sure the doors do not interfere with the future shop crane.

The living space is minimal, per the municipality, I cannot go under 900 sq-ft living space, this design ends up at around 990 sq-ft.

I have also attached an ICF design as the "real" house option. Both designs are of my own making, but RA's have looked at both and they will be stamped, which is required in my area.

One of the builders is looking at both of these designs and will be pricing out the builds for me. (For either design I will be helping with labor wherever I can digging my own trenches, etc, but I do have a fulltime job) If they are similar in cost, what would you build? This would be my final residence, so the decision is a life decision...

I really want a shop ASAP because I am almost 50 years old and sick of working on my equipment outside in the weather.

At the same time, a "real" house would be nice as opposed to living in a barn. Not to mention it is an upper story with stairs that I will have to deal with the rest of my life.

If I were to build the ICF house, that puts out my shop probably at least another 5 years.

The ICF house design has a decent garage and will have provisions in the floor for the asymmetric truck lift. So I will have somewhat of a shop to tide me over until I put up a larger structure for working on my equipment. (Not an contractor of any sort, equipment is personal/hobby stuff).

I highly recommend installing an elevator lift. You indicated this would be your forever home. When I was your age, I moved into a home with only a four foot rise from the attached garage and soon found that steps were not for me. Please consider this.

 

[ETD66SS]

I highly recommend installing an elevator lift. You indicated this would be your forever home. When I was your age, I moved into a home with only a four foot rise from the attached garage and soon found that steps were not for me. Please consider this.

I'm quite amazed how much this has come up. I did put some thought into my options about age & stairs, but not to the degree expressed by many here...

 

[bigwave]

My shop design has 18ft walls partly due to needing the headroom in the second story living space, but also due to my desire to have a bridge crane. Most of the builders are recommending 4 ply 2X6 columns, one of them recommending 3 ply 2X8 columns. None of them said stick frame, maybe due to wall height...

I'm doing a 60 x 72 x 18 Ft H post frame residence / garage. Used 3-2x8 posts at 8 ft OC on sides, set wood posts on Permacolumns that bear on 24"diameter polymer footing pads. Secured footing pad to permacolumn with 2 galvanized eyebolts to take care of uplift. Backfilled 30" auger holes with dense grade aggregate for ballast.

Recommend 3- 2x8 cols over 4-2x6; no more material and slightly more strength, due to increased depth (thickness) of timber.

FWIW; I like your shop design over the A-frame design, only thing I saw; make garage wider; go measure your vehicles with both doors open all the way.

 

[aircommuter]

If you are going up from a shop to the residence above all you need is a scissor lift. Then you can use the lift for other things in the shop. That’s how I access the mezzanine in my shop.

 

[ETD66SS]

only thing I saw; make garage wider; go measure your vehicles with both doors open all the way

I went back and forth between a 30ft vs 24ft wide garage. I settled on a 24ft wide as I wanted to keep the living space above as close to the minimum 900 sq-ft as possible for tax purposes.

The garage I grew with is 32 ft wide, dual 9ft x 7ft doors and a man door all on the front wall. I know it can be a little bit tight but what I have will work. And tbh, they will most likely wind up being spaces for project cars and not daily driver vehicles.

I might actually change the doors to 9ft x 7ft vs the 10ft x 7ft I have in my current design.

The area under the deck will be where I park my daily driver truck.

 

[MossRoad]

I'm quite amazed how much this has come up. I did put some thought into my options about age & stairs, but not to the degree expressed by many here...

Probably because many of us have seen the future through our parents, grandparents or selves. You've been given enough examples so I won't rehash. Just something a lot of us never considered until it was forced upon us.

 

[sunandsand]

Good thread . . . lots of experience talking here.

We built a high-efficiency home (about 900sf) and a big workshop (4,500 sf) in anticipation of building a 2,000/2,500 sf "main" house. I used to be a slumlord so I know LOTS of ways not to build houses.

Rule #1 - Do not p*ss off the building and zoning people. Be polite, if you don't get the answer you want, reframe the question and try again later. Listen carefully, sometimes they will give you the answer you want without saying it directly. You really, really want them on your side, they can help you a lot or they can make sure your project is dead in the water and stays that way.

We built the workshop first - building inspector says 4,500 sf is too big for an aircraft hangar in your zoning classification, it is a BARN, right? BARN. (The light came on - yup, it is a barn! Indeed! Yes! A BARN! Permit issued.)

Two neighbors did annoy him. One claimed he didn't need a survey, Google Earth is better. Building inspector says, no, I need a survey, neighbor says Google Earth is better and insists. Building inspector "invites" him to GTF out of my office! Loudly, too. Project stalled for four years so far.

Other neighbor didn't catch the "barn" part, got turned down flat. A long time ago, I told him to come talk to me first because one of the languages I speak is "government bureaucratese" and I offered to tell him the "code" to get the approval. I told him dealing with this was like a Kabuki dance, you wave your arms around and make silly faces for a while, go through the motions, and then they give you what you want. (Apologies to any Kabuki dancers or fans on this newsgroup - probably all two of them.)


Rule #2 - Check your flood zone classification. FEMA has changed them (again) and in some places the highest points in the area are in the flood zone. Have your surveyor determine the BFE (base flood elevation) because if you build on a couple of feet of fill, you can get your home removed from the flood zone (LOMA, Letter of Map Amendment) and you won't have to pay for flood insurance which is expensive and doesn't cover much anyway.

Often, you can get an existing home removed from the flood zone by raising the "machinery" (A/C compressor, etc.) a few inches, sometimes as easily as putting a few bricks under it. It takes a little research but it is well worthwhile.

Regarding flood damage - do NOT use regular gypsum wallboard!!!!! If it gets wet, even a little, it is ruined and has to be torn out. Use inorganic wallboard instead - it is faced with fiberglass, and it is totally immune to water damage, it just dries out and doesn't even leave a stain. (We used it and before the house was sealed, we had a storm which left three inches of water in the house. We just swept it out and it dried completely in a couple of days.) Inorganic costs about a dollar a sheet more than regular wallboard, works and is handled exactly the same way, but you have to ask for it - most of the big box building supply stores don't know it exists.

We built on 36" of fill for the hangar and 30" of fill for the so called "barn", and had *zero* damage when this area got 21 inches of rain in a day from hurricane Nicole.

House is framed in light gauge steel, the trusses are light gauge steel, it has a standing seam steel roof. Facing is split face block, so it looks exactly like a "normal" house people are used to looking at. The "barn" is a modified arch structure, all steel, rated 160 mph, with a 5" concrete floor and a 10 by 40 clear span power door. (Yeah, I have a really wide tractor, why do you ask?)

The upcoming large house will be two stories, and we have priced one of those clear tube elevators - $25K - turns out they have a distributor about 15 miles from us. Regular closed box elevators are close to twice that, and the vendors are VERY coy about quoting prices. Elevators do have to be inspected on a regular basis. I've seen a few DIY elevators (on line and in person) and they are very, very dangerous, no safety equipment, no fail-safes, no emergency exits, they are just bad news, like something on the order of a home-made parachute, basically a really bad idea. Sometimes you just have to pay if you want to be safe. Falls hurt and kill a LOT of people, and it is one of the biggest killers of people in our age group.

Basically, you CAN do this, but it takes a LOT of research first before you pick up a hammer or (better) a screw gun.

I got two very good ideas (so far) reading this thread - first, machinery room accessible from outside because I really don't want people tromping through our house, and second, the full size cardboard mockup of the kitchen! SWMBO (She Who Must Be Obeyed) really, really liked that idea. Incidentally, some refrigerators are available with reversible doors so if opening one way won't work, a few minutes with a wrench and screwdriver will "flip" the door so it opens the other way. Also, when you buy a new refrigerator or chest freezer, pay attention to how loud it is because you are going to have to listen to it hum, buzz, creak and moan for at least ten years!

We are also not concerned with the "eventual" resale price. We built this to please us, period, and it already has wide doors, is already (at least semi) handicapped accessible, and it is fanatically energy efficient.

Best Regards,

Mike/Florida

 

[OpsPops]

It's clear many are suggesting a single storey house and separate shop configuration for a variety of reasons...based on your suggested long term "build it once and for good" purposes.

My wife and I had our previous home built in 2005.
I was 54.
Three years later in 2008, I built a 24x24 - 2.5 storey workshop behind the house to store my tractor, tools, etc. and an office upstairs, in a similar style to the house (stucco, trim, exterior lighting, etc).
I was 57.
We sold the property and moved in 2013 to be closer to my father and my family and purchased a new single storey with what became a very crowded two car garage.
I was 62.
Having downsized a lot of stuff, not doing what I had been doing, but still needing storage and shop - I built a 100 sq ft shed, with a cantilever roof line covering another 100 sq ft for tools and puttering under cover.
I am 72.

My point being is that the time will pass ever more quickly, and you'll be VERY THANKFUL that you no longer have those stairs to climb - like the ones in our previous home and my previous shop.
As I've said to many along the way - every decade lived, seems to double in velocity from the one before.
Wait until you cross the 3 score and 10.

Build what you need, for both now and for the future.
Because moving sucks, and is more difficult the older you get.
I want the local undertaker to be the one taking me out of this house in 20-30 years for the last time.
And not having to haul my old A55 down stairs and through hallways too narrow to accommodate the gurney would be a plus.

So make sure the halls in the house are wide enough for a wheel chair as well - just in case.

Just my 20 cents (adjusted due to inflation).

 

[turbo36]

I went back and forth between a 30ft vs 24ft wide garage. I settled on a 24ft wide as I wanted to keep the living space above as close to the minimum 900 sq-ft as possible for tax purposes.

The garage I grew with is 32 ft wide, dual 9ft x 7ft doors and a man door all on the front wall. I know it can be a little bit tight but what I have will work. And tbh, they will most likely wind up being spaces for project cars and not daily driver vehicles.

I might actually change the doors to 9ft x 7ft vs the 10ft x 7ft I have in my current design.

The area under the deck will be where I park my daily driver truck.

My personal experience, based on living with both widths is that 24 foot is livable, but 26 foot makes your life easy Peezy. Especially if you don't like door dings!

 

[ETD66SS]

based on your suggested long term "build it once and for good" purposes

I guess my ultimate dream is to convert the Barndominium into a full shop someday after building a single story retirement home on the same property. But what I think is more realistic is I build the Barndominium and it is where I live until I die. If the stairs are an issue when older, only then does building a minimalistic single story retirement home become a thing...

 

[ETD66SS]

My personal experience, based on living with both widths is that 24 foot is livable, but 26 foot makes your life easy Peezy. Especially if you don't like door dings!

I have one builder who is quoting the Barndominium project. I want to see where he comes in at before making changes. I could only find one builder out of many who were even interested in the whole project. It's not great out there for ppl looking to build, that was 2014...

 

[angustrees]

Moved to TN 110acre mtn. farm at 67 (2007) - no liveable bldg. Built a 40 x 50 steel bldg. with one side having a 20 X 50 1 bedroom barndo. Built it 1st class & we lived in it until 2018 when we moved into 4400 SF house 100 feet above. Just the 2 of us & we loved it. Use as guest house or rental now & in process of adding another room over the back 18' of the other 1/2. Have a 10' 8' rise OHD under living section & 16' 14'rise at other section, plus a walk door. Made provision for elevator.

Also added a 40 x 50 lean to on one (left)side for machinery/stuff storage--not attached but roof of barndo drains onto it.

 

[hojolabo]

My only suggestion would be check with whomever for firewall rating between living and garage/shop area.

 

[ETD66SS]

My only suggestion would be check with whomever for firewall rating between living and garage/shop area.

As far as I know this is the code: Digital Codes

 

[ETD66SS]

Moved to TN 110acre mtn. farm at 67 (2007) - no liveable bldg. Built a 40 x 50 steel bldg. with one side having a 20 X 50 1 bedroom barndo. Built it 1st class & we lived in it until 2018 when we moved into 4400 SF house 100 feet above. Just the 2 of us & we loved it. Use as guest house or rental now & in process of adding another room over the back 18' of the other 1/2. Have a 10' 8' rise OHD under living section & 16' 14'rise at other section, plus a walk door. Made provision for elevator.

Also added a 40 x 50 lean to on one (left)side for machinery/stuff storage--not attached but roof of barndo drains onto it.

Very nice place.