Barndominium/Shop or "real" House?

[MossRoad]

My Mom is 85 and she uses two sets of stairs regularly, carries laundry up and down both flights still. I can see for some however it is a big issue.

Yep. My mother in law is 83. She was an active bicycle rider, belonged to a local club, and would do 60 mile rides up to Lake Michigan and back. Usually put in over 100 miles a week. She also did water skiing, and cross-country in winter. Then she needed a liver transplant, and her stamina and strength went to crap. That was about 14 years ago. Last year I built her a 1st floor laundry because she can't do stairs anymore. Unexpected things happen, so wide hallways and stairs (and elevators like you know) should be put into the plans if you're planning on staying there forever.

 

[MossRoad]

Well been busting my ass this weekend working on a stick frame version of my ICF house design. Still a few sheets to go. I also did design this version with a full basement under the living room as opposed to a crawl space there. Knowing what I know from previous estimates, I figure that adds probably close to $10k to the foundation.

It's unlikely I can afford to build this, but I will go through the effort of getting it quoted so I feel like I exhausted all options before choosing the Barndominium.

I surely cannot afford to build a house and a shop, so it's one or the other for now...

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View attachment 783653

I think I see your refrigerator up against a wall. If it opens to the left with the counter on the right, it won't be able to open past 90 degrees, and you won't be able to pull out any vegetable drawers and such.

 

[ETD66SS]

I think I see your refrigerator up against a wall. If it opens to the left with the counter on the right, it won't be able to open past 90 degrees, and you won't be able to pull out any vegetable drawers and such.

Yep, had that in my last house too. It's always a pain to leave enough room for that.

 

[MossRoad]

Yep, had that in my last house too. It's always a pain to leave enough room for that.

I've seen 3 remodels in the last year where that happened. Two of them you couldn't even open the door 90 degrees, because the door was so thick. It would only open about 75 degrees, making it impossible to access the under shelf drawers, the internal cold water dispenser, and the ice bucket. You really have to look at the fridge before designing a space for it.

 

[ETD66SS]

Trying to finalize my foundation plan. Been referencing the 2018 residential code: IRC 2018

I tweaked my footer more in-line with what the code states for a 1 story home in my soil conditions. I had a 24" x 12" footer, it is now 18" x 8".

I am wondering about wall thickness transitions. I have 9ft walls in the basement, code seems to dictate those should be 10" thick. For the porch and the garage I have the walls 8" thick. I don't care so much about the porch because it is covered with a concrete cap. However, for the garage the top of the garage slab sits below the elevation of the garage foundation walls 2", so the thicker those walls are, the more of a step of concrete I have around the inside perimeter of the garge floor. 8" wall, 2X6 sill plus 5/8" drywall = 1-7/8" step. If I can go down to 6" thick walls for the garage and porch there would be no noticeable step around the perimeter. I am referencing some architectural drawings of my brothers house and all the walls are 10" thick. So he has a 3-1/8" step around the perimeter and his garage foundation walls are 8" above his garage slab.

Wondering if it is a pain in the ass ($$$) for concrete contractors to have varying wall thicknesses and I should just have them all at 10" thick?

 

[ovrszd]

I had a very good concrete guy. Known him all his life. I completely turned him loose.

I would "assume" they would rather pour them all the same thickness. But I have no knowledge or experience to base that on.

Thanks again for excellent drawings.

 

[MossRoad]

Trying to finalize my foundation plan. Been referencing the 2018 residential code: IRC 2018

I tweaked my footer more in-line with what the code states for a 1 story home in my soil conditions. I had a 24" x 12" footer, it is now 18" x 8".

I am wondering about wall thickness transitions. I have 9ft walls in the basement, code seems to dictate those should be 10" thick. For the porch and the garage I have the walls 8" thick. I don't care so much about the porch because it is covered with a concrete cap. However, for the garage the top of the garage slab sits below the elevation of the garage foundation walls 2", so the thicker those walls are, the more of a step of concrete I have around the inside perimeter of the garge floor. 8" wall, 2X6 sill plus 5/8" drywall = 1-7/8" step. If I can go down to 6" thick walls for the garage and porch there would be no noticeable step around the perimeter. I am referencing some architectural drawings of my brothers house and all the walls are 10" thick. So he has a 3-1/8" step around the perimeter and his garage foundation walls are 8" above his garage slab.

Wondering if it is a pain in the ass ($$$) for concrete contractors to have varying wall thicknesses and I should just have them all at 10" thick?

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When I did mine, I kept them all the same width, just because I made my own forms, and it was easier to do the math for one thickness. For your own knowledge, add up the number of yards it would take to do it at both thicknesses and see how much you'd actually save. Every penny counts on some projects. A good concrete person would have no trouble with varying thicknesses, though.

 

[ETD66SS]

Working on section views, and am on to the A-Frame living room. I don't want to do knee walls because I think the windows look better on the outside non-truncated. I laid out a dude sitting in a chair 1ft from the wall. I'm 6ft tall and I guess the 8X6 decorative beams could be an issue? Maybe not so much for walking but getting in and out of a chair.

Anyone have experience with an A-Frame house or cabin?

 

[ovrszd]

That could definitely be questionable. No personal experience here.

 

[ROUSTABOUT]

I've built all these structures. I like ICF the best. I have built maybe a dozen ICF homes. I got my parents in one. Just built my brother one. If that says anything. Everyone that gets in an ICF home loves it. But, general public won't get away from 2x4's. They just won't do it. Even after the hurricane hit Florida, one house was standing in the area, it was ICF. But they build back with wood. Heating and cooling are a big part of having a house. ICF offers drastic savings, but they won't do it.

 

[civilian]

Working on section views, and am on to the A-Frame living room. I don't want to do knee walls because I think the windows look better on the outside non-truncated. I laid out a dude sitting in a chair 1ft from the wall. I'm 6ft tall and I guess the 8X6 decorative beams could be an issue? Maybe not so much for walking but getting in and out of a chair.

Anyone have experience with an A-Frame house or cabin?

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In your picture/drawing on the left: My brother has an A-frame house. His couches sit a bit away from the wall in comparison to my couch in standard house build. His recliner sits out like mine. I am about 5'8" and don't have a problem sitting down into couch. Also I don't think people sit down with a straight vertical back, I know my back is usually curved forward to balance myself as I sit down. Along the bottom portion of the roof line behind the chair back area are cabinets. Never looked how deep they are. And his roof line guessing goes down to within 2' of grade level. Where yours show 2' to the floor level. Not sure of his roof pitch. Jon

 

[ETD66SS]

Finally have a completed first draft of my stick frame plans. For whatever reason these drawings take longer than it seems they should...

 

[walnutman]

I actually just emailed the town assessor to try and get them to pre-assess based on the plans. I have very high property and school taxes in my area. For the ICF design, I am expecting about ~$12,000 per year in taxes (for a 1243 sq-ft home, which is nuts). I'm hoping the assessor can clue me in on how much less I'd be paying on the Barndominium.

I would get the hell out of there. Paying over 1k a month in taxes is robbery. We left Pennsylvania for warmer weather here in Texas. The home we sold in PA taxes went up to 14k a year. Texas isn't super cheap either
We are at about 7500 a year but next year I'll be 65 and the taxes will no longer go up. I have a 4300sf attached metal building shop and about 3000sf home... standard 2x6 construction.

 

[dkmc]

Very exciting plans and all, but as a life long NYS resident, and with the current plan to rid the state of fossil fuels, I'd be relocating to a state farther south
with the new build. Eventually I'll be forced out of this state as well.

Edit:Looks like walnutman and I were posting simultaneously with the same thought.

 

[kenhar]

A friend of mine has done exactly what you are contemplating. Worked fine for the until "Mom" at 90 years old needed a place to live or go into a facility. Master bedroom and bath down stairs, 3 other rooms and bath upstairs. Didn't work out too well. Stairs in a residence is kind of like backyard swimming pools. A lot of people have one but not many people have their second one. The delima now is the husband has died, which we all will, and this "barndominium" is going to be a very difficult sale. The market for such residence/shop combos is slim. A lot of people would like a house and unattached shop but it will take that special couple to want exactly what you have created. Your buyers market will be nil to none depending on your physical location. Getting half your investment back may be realistic. Think and pray hard about this venture.

 

[pmsmechanic]

Would adding a third bay onto your house garage for a lift and workshop area work for you? Later a storage area can be added to the property. It could even be a fabric building.

 

[aircommuter]

I would agree to keep them separate forall reasons mentioned by others. My first house I attached the work shop but the the floor level was two steps lower. That was my learner house and I did some of the work. Shop had a pit for under vehicl access. I learned that it was 65% labor costs and 35% materials. So I took the money from that sale after 6 years of living there and built them myself without subs. Multi year projects. The last one I started in my early 60s and did the entire project including grading and underground utilities. I subbed out the colored stucco portion because it was 45’ high and took 31 tons of mud, the sheet rock was also too much for me with some 18’+ ceilings. I did the remainder in stone. I had heard about downsizing but didn’t know why or how. One thing may interest the OP is the steel walls in the shop that he could use for residential, they go up easy and provide R-21 insulation, available in higher and lower insulation values by thickness. They are sandwiched with metal on both sides and foam filled. Different textures are available. I see some contributors on here that have seen this project before so I wont bore you with all the details and photos except for the walls. By the way my taxes are $3500 annual. Building this way confuses the assessor.

 

[charlessenf]

Yeah, I already have a spot picked out for the elevator...

Have you PRICED and elevator? At fifty, it's not easy to know what seventy feels like . . say close to the ground my friend or you may wind up on cot in your shop!

 

[ETD66SS]

Would adding a third bay onto your house garage for a lift and workshop area work for you? Later a storage area can be added to the property. It could even be a fabric building.

I don't think I would go that route.

If I build a house first, I'd probably do an all metal building on slab at a later date.

I have 3 shipping containers and plan to buy a fourth, I plan to stack 2 high and span that with a shipping container roof. This would give me 40ftx40ftx16ft area to park my equipment out of the weather. Open on two ends but better than getting rained and snowed on. If I build a house first this shipping container thing would likely happen before the all steel shop.

I got my first ballpark estimate for my latest stick frame design. ~$360k, and that is with me doing site work, water/gas trenching & installation, power and driveway already are done.

$360k is too much for me. So if the Barndo comes in a lot lower, probably the way I go...

 

[ovrszd]

I got my first ballpark estimate for my latest stick frame design. ~$360k, and that is with me doing site work, water/gas trenching & installation, power and driveway already are done.

$360k is too much for me. So if the Barndo comes in a lot lower, probably the way I go...

Pretty sure it will.