Flail Mower Let's talk flail mowers

[leonz]

That center pulley is very loose and can move in all directions. Looking at it in person I can tell it's not lined up properly. I suppose the next thing to do is take that entire pulley and arm off?

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Yes take the entire pulley off Zerker. You may end up replacing everything down to the bushing for the tensioner arm too anyway as it sounds like the whole arm and snubber pulley and bushing/bearing are shot.

 

[Jack Yuan]

Hello Mr. Yuan,


I do not have the ambition to yell in Mandarin; but once again this "flail mower owner" is not using the flail mower properly.

It is much too low to cut properly and as result it is scooping and shearing
the matted grass up like a sharp scythe with the scoop knives on your flail mower.

He certainly decided to mow without adjusting the rear roller(Lower the rear roller)
to raise the mowers cutting height-you can adjust the rear roller on your flail mowers
to adjust the cutting height I hope?

He has to lower the rear roller to raise the cutting height Mr. Yuan.

Thank you.

 

[megachimp]

Hi Guys-

thanks for all the helpful info in this thread so far. I have a little bit of a different situation, but I think you guys might be able to help. I recently purchased a Bush Hog GPF 50 flail mower to tow behind my ATV and mow about 5 acres of field. I don't care about finish, just about finishing as quickly as I can and getting the grass down. The mower came with a rather weak 8 hp Briggs engine which I have replaced with a 13 hp "Chonda" engine from Harbor Freight. Additionally, the flails (knives?) were in really bad shape so I have replaced them with heavy duty blades. From another manufacturer, but pretty close based on my discussions with Flailmaster.

The issue I'm having is with my drive belts. I seem to be running through belts very quickly. The original belt started smoking while I was mowing and elongated to the extent that it was unusable. I replaced it with an "adjustable link" belt. Same thing happened to the adjustable link belt. I tried putting on another adjustable link belt and I am starting to have the same issues. The one nice thing about the adjustable belt is that, when the slip/smoking starts, I'm usually able to stop the mower quickly, remove two links, and start again.

The only thing I have not tried yet is lowering the roll bar to the lowest possible position and adjusting the wheels to their lowest position. I just made that change and will try again tomorrow using those settings.

Any idea what could be causing my issues? I know that 13 hp is relatively small for a 48" machine based on the typical 5 hp/ft formula...but my mower was designed to operate with a 8 hp engine...surely the engine cannot be the problem.

Thanks in advance!!!
Thanks in advance!

EDIT: I should mention also that the mechanism on my machine is super-simple. Just a horizontal shaft engine coupled to a centrifugal clutch, driving a belt which spins a pulley connected to the flail bar. I have checked for angular misalignment in the belt and can't see any. I've also greased the grease points liberally and verified that everything spins well.

 

[leonz]

Hi Guys-

thanks for all the helpful info in this thread so far. I have a little bit of a different situation, but I think you guys might be able to help. I recently purchased a Bush Hog GPF 50 flail mower to tow behind my ATV and mow about 5 acres of field. I don't care about finish, just about finishing as quickly as I can and getting the grass down. The mower came with a rather weak 8 hp Briggs engine which I have replaced with a 13 hp "Chonda" engine from Harbor Freight. Additionally, the flails (knives?) were in really bad shape so I have replaced them with heavy duty blades. From another manufacturer, but pretty close based on my discussions with Flailmaster.

The issue I'm having is with my drive belts. I seem to be running through belts very quickly. The original belt started smoking while I was mowing and elongated to the extent that it was unusable. I replaced it with an "adjustable link" belt. Same thing happened to the adjustable link belt. I tried putting on another adjustable link belt and I am starting to have the same issues. The one nice thing about the adjustable belt is that, when the slip/smoking starts, I'm usually able to stop the mower quickly, remove two links, and start again.

The only thing I have not tried yet is lowering the roll bar to the lowest possible position and adjusting the wheels to their lowest position. I just made that change and will try again tomorrow using those settings.

Any idea what could be causing my issues? I know that 13 hp is relatively small for a 48" machine based on the typical 5 hp/ft formula...but my mower was designed to operate with a 8 hp engine...surely the engine cannot be the problem.

Thanks in advance!!!
Thanks in advance!

EDIT: I should mention also that the mechanism on my machine is super-simple. Just a horizontal shaft engine coupled to a centrifugal clutch, driving a belt which spins a pulley connected to the flail bar. I have checked for angular misalignment in the belt and can't see any. I've also greased the grease points liberally and verified that everything spins well.

=====================================================================


Hello Megachimp,

I want to welcome you as the newest member of the Flail Mower Nations.


The Horse Power Per Foot argument does not apply to a towed motorized flail mower my friend.

How old is your Bush hog? it looks like one of the last motorized towed Mott flail mowers sold.

You probably have the same Hilliard Clutch that I have in my 16 Horse power Mathews Lawn Genie Pick Up Mower.

1`
=====================================================================

Now as far as mowing speed goes you are not going to be running flat out and mow. This is why you are smoking belts.

You need to slow down and mow the land your working to get it to mow right otherwise your going to continue to smoke the belts.


1. I want you to purchase a new Kevlar belt for the flail mower and do exactly as I tell you.
a. Make sure the snubber pulley has no grease on it.
2. raise the cutting height to its highest position which is the last mounting hole at he bottom for the flail mower wheel set and then you can mow.

3. use only premium fuel with SeaFoam or ethanol free premium gasoline plus Seafoam.

4. Overlap taking half cuts with the flail mower as you tow it in first gear, yes first gear! Yes it will get boring, that is why you put a fender radio on your ATV.
a. mowing in a spiral takes less time and less fuel as you are not braking to turn around or stopping to brake and turn around.


5. once you get it mowed down you can lower the cutting height and continue to mow in half cuts until you have the 2 inch height of cut.

6. After that you will be able to mow at the 2 inch height at 4 miles per hour in a spiral and your sod will look beautiful with little effort and you can reseed if you like and it will come in better with fewer weeds if any as you have been killing them off with mowing.


OK now:

1. Kevlar V belt
2. fresh premium fuel with SeaFoam,
3. raise mower to its highest cutting height at the NEW first mowing
4. mow in a spiral pattern taking half cuts .
5. lower the mowers cutting height one position for the next mowing
6. mow at the lower height in a spiral once again

Continue this until your sod has a 2 inch grass height and then you will be able to mow quickly when all the grass and brush is knocked down and you will have a great looking area with little work ans you will be able to mow very quickly in a spiral as you will not have to to stop to brake or turn around


Once you get it all knocked down and shredded the clippings will dissolve quickly and you will spend less time mowing. you have to slow down.


It takes time but once you have it all done the first time you will spend much less time mowing as 4 miles per hour will get your sod mowed quickly if you mow in a spiral pattern.

 

[Swardle]

Thanks! That's what I was leaning towards. Too bad I'm gone this weekend, so I need to wait another week to play...

Received my Caroni this past week as well. Used a floor jack on the lower attachment point to lift the mower to get the parts out while on the pallet. Good point from island on attaching the upper attachment point. I used the parts diagram to get it on correctly. I need to get the dipstick entension and check the belts and then time to play

 

[megachimp]

=====================================================================


Hello Megachimp,

I want to welcome you as the newest member of the Flail Mower Nations.


The Horse Power Per Foot argument does not apply to a towed motorized flail mower my friend.

How old is your Bush hog? it looks like one of the last motorized towed Mott flail mowers sold.

You probably have the same Hilliard Clutch that I have in my 16 Horse power Mathews Lawn Genie Pick Up Mower.

1`
=====================================================================

Now as far as mowing speed goes you are not going to be running flat out and mow. This is why you are smoking belts.

You need to slow down and mow the land your working to get it to mow right otherwise your going to continue to smoke the belts.


1. I want you to purchase a new Kevlar belt for the flail mower and do exactly as I tell you.
a. Make sure the snubber pulley has no grease on it.
2. raise the cutting height to its highest position which is the last mounting hole at he bottom for the flail mower wheel set and then you can mow.

3. use only premium fuel with SeaFoam or ethanol free premium gasoline plus Seafoam.

4. Overlap taking half cuts with the flail mower as you tow it in first gear, yes first gear! Yes it will get boring, that is why you put a fender radio on your ATV.
a. mowing in a spiral takes less time and less fuel as you are not braking to turn around or stopping to brake and turn around.


5. once you get it mowed down you can lower the cutting height and continue to mow in half cuts until you have the 2 inch height of cut.

6. After that you will be able to mow at the 2 inch height at 4 miles per hour in a spiral and your sod will look beautiful with little effort and you can reseed if you like and it will come in better with fewer weeds if any as you have been killing them off with mowing.


OK now:

1. Kevlar V belt
2. fresh premium fuel with SeaFoam,
3. raise mower to its highest cutting height at the NEW first mowing
4. mow in a spiral pattern taking half cuts .
5. lower the mowers cutting height one position for the next mowing
6. mow at the lower height in a spiral once again

Continue this until your sod has a 2 inch grass height and then you will be able to mow quickly when all the grass and brush is knocked down and you will have a great looking area with little work ans you will be able to mow very quickly in a spiral as you will not have to to stop to brake or turn around


Once you get it all knocked down and shredded the clippings will dissolve quickly and you will spend less time mowing. you have to slow down.


It takes time but once you have it all done the first time you will spend much less time mowing as 4 miles per hour will get your sod mowed quickly if you mow in a spiral pattern.

Thanks so much leonz! I've gone ahead and implemented suggestions 3 and 4 immediately. On this mower there are three adjustments, an angle adjustment at the top of the flail mower, adjustments for the placement of the wheels, and adjustment for the roller. The wheel placement adjustment and roller adjustment each have four positions. I put both in the lowest position and adjusted the angle at the top so the motor was as close to level as possible and the roller rolled (barely) ont he ground.

The quality of cut definitely was better (still not super thrilled with it), and it took a lot longer (30 minutes) before the belt burned out. ATV going slow and in low gear the whole time. The belt burned out when I got cocky and drove the opposite way through the area I just mowed, I think I hit a dip which overloaded the engine which clippings. I'm ordering a new kevlar v belt and I'm going to use premium non-ethanol fuel with seafoam for the next batch of gas.

One of the things I have noticed while cutting is that the quality of cut seems to be worse near the center of the mower. Any idea what could be causing this? I'm thinking that it might be that the grass at the sides is flattened by the ATV tires, but not the grass at the middle.

I'm not sure of the exact year of my mower, but I think it is from around year 2000. Looks like a Hilliard clutch, yes. It's amazing that they don't make these engine powered machines any more in the US!

Thanks again for all the help! I was about to scrap this machine, but now I think it might be able to work for us.

 

[leonz]

Hello Megachimp,

I forgot to ask you this but are you running the engine wide open at about 3300 RPM??


Do you have a lawn tractor you can tow it with? I think that the ATV is part of the problem as its still too fast.


For what its worth my Lawn Genie is 36 years old and still going with lots of TLC and
rebuilding with new Flail Mower Rotor bearings, New wheels and bearings and
replacement parts for the 16 Horse Power Briggs cast iron sleeve one cylinder engine.

There is plenty of life left in your flail mower and mine both so there is no need to scrap it
my friend.

 

[megachimp]

Hello Megachimp,

I forgot to ask you this but are you running the engine wide open at about 3300 RPM??


Do you have a lawn tractor you can tow it with? I think that the ATV is part of the problem as its still too fast.


For what its worth my Lawn Genie is 36 years old and still going with lots of TLC and
rebuilding with new Flail Mower Rotor bearings, New wheels and bearings and
replacement parts for the 16 Horse Power Briggs cast iron sleeve one cylinder engine.

There is plenty of life left in your flail mower and mine both so there is no need to scrap it
my friend.

Thanks again!

Engine is wide open throttle, I have no idea what the rpm is (how would I measure that?). I let it get to full speed before starting mowing.

I don't have a lawn tractor, but I do have a smaller ATV that might be able to pull it. I'll give that a shot. Unfortunately the small ATV only has high gear . I'm going to look into getting a cheap "cruise control" kit for the ATVs to steady off my speed at a lower level.

I'll be out of commission for mowing for a little bit...have to figure out the size and order that kevlar belt.

Sounds like your mower is a really great workhorse...nice machine and awesome to have it last 36 years! How did you know when the rotor bearings needed to be replaced?

Once again, really appreciate you sharing your insight.

 

[leonz]

Engine speed measurement can be done with an infra red point and shoot tachometer but I would not worry about that too much as long as the engine is working.

You may want to consider upgrading to a larger "original" Honda or Briggs and Stratton engine.

The B+S V twins have a good reputation and the 13 HP GX340 engine I had on my firewood processor was a beast- I took care of it like baby. I heated it up with my space heater because it had 25 gallon hydraulic tank and I did that the year round when I used it almost daily.



When The flail Mower Rotor bearings usually fail they generally sieze up completely when working.

They are easy to replace and maintain as long as you purchase the right bearings.

When bearings are properly matched for the job for speed and strength as far
as the load it is required to handle they last for a very long time.
The original bearing set on my mower was changed 7 years ago.

I also had my fathers first 36 inch lawn genie pick up mower that I traded
in for my first tractor which was a Wheel horse 244 with a snow plow, chains,
weights and mower I have it and its going to the scrapper as its not worth
repairing again after 26 years. The first transmission went out on it in 1994-5
I think and I lucked out as they had a 244 hydro that was burned in a fire and
they sold me that transmission.

NOW about your V belt; Take it to a NAPA or tractor supply and have them
measure the V belt with a V belt ruler and you will be all set. you might be lucky
and still be able to read the V belt number in the top of the V belt which is the
wide section that rests in the pulley.

 

[KenB2920]

So I have two flails I wouldn't mind selling. One is a Mott that has some rust and needs a bearing for the rear roller. Aside from that it still cuts well. I used it today to make sure it still works and it's great.

Being no one seems to want to buy it (at least yet), It there anything else I could take it apart and use the gearbox for?

I also have a ford 907 but it's to sound of condition to dismantle

What have people turned their flails into

 

[leonz]

So I have two flails I wouldn't mind selling. One is a Mott that has some rust and needs a bearing for the rear roller. Aside from that it still cuts well. I used it today to make sure it still works and it's great.

Being no one seems to want to buy it (at least yet), It there anything else I could take it apart and use the gearbox for?

I also have a ford 907 but it's to sound of condition to dismantle

What have people turned their flails into

==========================================================================

Hello KenB2920,


Going in the reverse so to speak, the majority of flail mower builders in Italy like Maschio, Peruggini, Caroni, Peruzzo and others also build rototillers using the same basic design and changing belt drive for chain drive.

I would not worry too much as the price for new out of the show room flails of that size without dethatching blades in the middle of the knife pairs are over to 8KUSD or more so hold tight as you will have a buyer soon I am sure. Your Mott can also carry the dethatching blades too.

 

[CTWright]

Wish you were closer to me. I drove over 600 miles for each of my flails. I'm probably one of 2 or 3 guys in the state with a flail mower. I could always use another!

 

[Jelf]

I just talked to Agrisupply and asked if I could order a Caroni flail with the P rotor. The gal I spoke with said "no". She said they only sell Caroni's with the B rotor and do not accept special orders.

Assuming I was told correctly, does anyone know how to order a Caroni with the P rotor?

Joseph

 

[IslandTractor]

From what I can tell, it looks like the P rotor is pretty much the B rotor but with scoop/hammers rather than clevis/blades. You might consider just ordering the B rotor version that AgriSupply does carry and then purchase scoop blades from Flailmaster. So long as the Flailmaster hammers/scoops fit between the Caroni mounts there really shouldn't be any issue if you replace all of them at once. Then you can sell the unused Caroni B blades and clevises to folks here on TBN. A full set of 56 blades and 28 clevises is worth something like $300-400 retail.

In this era of cheap overseas phone rates, the other option is to call Caroni in Italy or contact them via email. Errore! Pagina non trovata - Caroni SpA It might take a couple of calls before you reach someone who both speaks English and can provide sales info but I am not aware of any dealer other than AgriSupply. There have been other dealers in the US so I don't believe AgriSupply has some exclusive marketing agreement. Dave of Dave's Tractors in CA used to carry Caroni if I recall correctly. I don't believe he carries them anymore but he might give you some hints about how to find another dealer. He hangs out in the Mahindra forum. I would also consider buying one of the other Italian made mowers. Just as Caroni is similar to Woods, there are Italian versions of Rhino, Landpride and Bush Hog who each make competitive flail mowers.

 

[Jelf]

From what I can tell, it looks like the P rotor is pretty much the B rotor but with scoop/hammers rather than clevis/blades. You might consider just ordering the B rotor version that AgriSupply does carry and then purchase scoop blades from Flailmaster.

I may very well do this and keep the original clevis/blades in case my neighbors with overgrown pastures want to hire me to do some mowing.

It was mentioned way back in this monster thread, but here again is the thread where someone put duck foot type scoop/hammers on a 'B' rotor and raved about the finish cut. This thread includes the Flail Master part # for the duck feet.
Caroni TM1900 Flail Mower... - OrangeTractorTalks - Everything Kubota

Finally, my thanks to all who took the time to share their knowledge in this thread.:thumbsup:

 

[leonz]

I just talked to Agrisupply and asked if I could order a Caroni flail with the P rotor. The gal I spoke with said "no". She said they only sell Caroni's with the B rotor and do not accept special orders.

Assuming I was told correctly, does anyone know how to order a Caroni with the P rotor?

Joseph

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Just understand that the P rotor scoop knives are not cast hammers they are shaped, formed, then hardened.

The Scoop knives/hammers on the Landpride flail mowers are cast hardened steel


GGGGGRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Call Them Back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, ask for Rodney Barbour and tell him that Leon Z sent you to him for a flail mower with a P rotor!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They buy them by the container load and a different model will not be a big deal to bring across the pond.

=====================================================================


Short of that;

The Land Pride Flail Mowers are Maschio Vineyard And Orchard Flail Mowers with a trash door that opens and locks in place and allows the end user to mow heavy thick brush without plugging.

I get so tired of hearing this person telling people that they will not order a flail mower of a different type for a customer as the orders are typically paid for in advance with some models in stock along with spare parts.

Talk to Rodney Barbour please.

GGGGGGRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[IslandTractor]

I may very well do this and keep the original clevis/blades in case my neighbors with overgrown pastures want to hire me to do some mowing.

It was mentioned way back in this monster thread, but here again is the thread where someone put duck foot type scoop/hammers on a 'B' rotor and raved about the finish cut. This thread includes the Flail Master part # for the duck feet.
Caroni TM1900 Flail Mower... - OrangeTractorTalks - Everything Kubota

Finally, my thanks to all who took the time to share their knowledge in this thread.:thumbsup:

Sounds like a plan but be aware that changing out the knives on a Caroni is not a particularly pleasant job. The Caroni supplied stock bolts are about half and inch longer than necessary for the locknut and with use nearly always have damaged threads. That means vigorous effort with a couple of spanners is necessary to remove them. My 3/8" air ratchet is not up to the job. By the time you have removed all 28 your forearms will be putty. I finally learned not to use Caroni metric bolts and use Flailmaster supplied bolts that are just one thread longer than the locknuts.

 

[LouieJunior]

Sounds like a plan but be aware that changing out the knives on a Caroni is not a particularly pleasant job. The Caroni supplied stock bolts are about half and inch longer than necessary for the locknut and with use nearly always have damaged threads. That means vigorous effort with a couple of spanners is necessary to remove them. My 3/8" air ratchet is not up to the job. By the time you have removed all 28 your forearms will be putty. I finally learned not to use Caroni metric bolts and use Flailmaster supplied bolts that are just one thread longer than the locknuts.

I bought my Caroni replacement blades from Flail Master -- but not the bolts. Can you report their part number here? Thanks. I will replace using the shorter bolts next time.

 

[Jelf]

Sounds like a plan but be aware that changing out the knives on a Caroni is not a particularly pleasant job. The Caroni supplied stock bolts are about half and inch longer than necessary for the locknut and with use nearly always have damaged threads. That means vigorous effort with a couple of spanners is necessary to remove them. My 3/8" air ratchet is not up to the job. By the time you have removed all 28 your forearms will be putty. I finally learned not to use Caroni metric bolts and use Flailmaster supplied bolts that are just one thread longer than the locknuts.

The Flailmaster duckfoot knives someone put on their 'B' rotor are part #DFM-2042 $3.96 each.
The FM catalog shows they sell a bolt and nut - or - a clevis pin that is held in with a cotter pin.

I wonder if that clevis pin will fit into the holes in the mounting on the B rotor?
Anyone know?
If that works then that would eliminate messed up threads when changing/replacing knives/hammers.

 

[IslandTractor]

I bought my Caroni replacement blades from Flail Master -- but not the bolts. Can you report their part number here? Thanks. I will replace using the shorter bolts next time.

I have a box of them with my tractor but I won't be back there for another ten days or so. If you measure the Caroni bolts and subtract half an inch it hat length would work. My flail master bolts are SAE but fit without any problem.

I'll search my email to see if I can find the order from Flailmaster. (Edit: no emails, must have called the order in)

2nd Edit: The Caroni bolts are M10x80mm. Closest equivalent SAE is 3/8" diameter and 3" long. Both those measurements are slightly shy of what the metric width and length are. I'm thinking that's probably what I have although the 3" bolt is only 1/8" shorter than the 80mm and somehow I think there was a bigger difference than that. I just changed one set this past weekend and I know that with the metric set the fastened nut leaves at least five or so threads of bolt exposed at the end. With the SAE bolt/nut there was one thread outside the nut.