120-Volt Mig welder.

[Arc weld]

When I was in Army Basic at Fort Jackson in 76 for some reason or other the men and women trained on the ranges at the same time. With the M 16 those girls beat the pants off the guys hands down. The small recoil and weight made it easy . Of course they didn't come close to the prepackaged experts like me being a North Country Ridge runner all my early years. And for my superior marksmanship what did I get for a reward? Pulled off the range since I zeroed right off the bat and the honor of humping ammo the rest of the morning for the M60 machine guns. Then in the afternoon I got a break and got switched to hauling railroad ties (and we were the tractor). Thanks Uncle Sam. Something tells me my experience is not unique.
I did learn something very valuable though and that is the true even today and that's the appreciation for weight of heavy caliber ammo. I could take two cans of M16 and run with it while that big wonkin box of .308 I could barely waddle. Another useless lesson learned.

My dad lied about his age to fight for Canada in WW II. Gunnery training was interesting. My dad started target shooting when he was about 13 years old. My grandpa was the manager of a large hardware store that supplied ammo to the gun club. It was quite common for my dad to take the gun clubs ammo and his gun case on the bus after school to go shooting. The gun club would often have shooting competitions with the military. They always told my dad to wait in the car. For the longest time he never knew why. Then it dawned on him they were probably betting on who would win and then this kid would come up and beat all of them.

In gunnery training an instructor came over to see how he was doing and said "You don't need this, go to the kitchen. They sent him to the kitchen to peel potatoes! My dad transferred to the air force because he didn't want to become a sniper. They decided my dad was best suited as an air gunner so up he went to shoot targets from a plane. He seemed to be too good of a shot so they figured the cable to pull the target was too short. They lengthened it and he was still hitting the target consistently. (Every 4th round was a tracer and my dad said once you locked on a target you could just follow the tracers) Then they sent up the lead instructor because nobody believed he was that good of a shot. My dad started to worry a bit so he hit the target a few times and then just pointed the guns down to get rid of the rest of his ammo. He didn't want to go peel potatoes again!

My dad was a tail gunner on a Halifax Bomber and flew on 5 sorties over Germany but never fired a single shot. The tail gunners main responsibility was to warn the pilot of other aircraft. On one sortie, after they got back, he noticed a huge hole in the plexi-glass bubble above him. On the 5th sortie his plane was hit by shrapnel and he was blown out with the bombs still on board. He was the only survivor and suffered a broken back. He was given a purple heart but they took it back when they realized he was a Canadian.

After recovering, he went back to target shooting. He was one of only 3 masters in Canada and the youngest by over 10 years. He competed on the Alberta and Canadian team all over the world. He won the Alberta championship so many times in the 50's they gave him the trophy. He carved his own gun stock which I still have but he sold the Winchester target rifle. He quit target shooting because it wasn't fun anymore. He said it got to where people resented him and just wanted to beat him. He was just a darn good shot and liked it in the beginning. Sadly I never got to see him shoot. I asked him once if he could shoot someone between the eyes and he said "At 100 yds, left or right of center. Hitting a dime at 100 yds. is considered a bulls-eye. Hitting inside the diameter of a dime at 100 yds. with a 22 is considered a perfect shot. My dad scored a lot of perfect 100-10X scores. The X signifies a perfect shot. You could have 10 bulls-eyes which would be a 100-10 score but the best shooters were usually in the 8-10X range.

I learned a valuable lesson from my dad playing sports growing up. Do the best you can but most important have fun. If you're not having fun it's not worth it.

 

[newbury]

Another thread gone to waste.

 

[muddstopper]

Another thread gone to waste.

This thread had potential, but there are a few folks that just arenot willing to listen to, or willing to admit that they dont know how to weld. And they dont want to hear that they are not as good a weldor as they think they are. Their dribble has led to the original OP abandoning this thread and this web site. Those same folks couldnt even passup the opportunity to gloat about the fact that they made the OP leave this site and havent missed a chance to throw more mud in the OP direction.

When you abuse your older workers, you endup with the unexperienced and uneducated as the teachers of the new comers. Those newcomers dont know enough to know that they are being taught wrong. So you end up with threads like this one that strays from the original topic simply because there is no one left that can contribute anything of value.

I myself have placed most of the self proclaimed experts, those that dont know enough to know just how ignorant they are, on my ignore list. I find this limits the dribble I have to read. I wont even have to see their replys to this post. I dont think I will miss anything of value simply because they dont have anything of value to contribute

 

[Reverser]

Until something new comes up, all threads eventually die on their own, anyway. After all, this one has 21 pages.

Maybe Mark will post some tests he was talking about doing with their new Everlast 120v mig.

 

[Fifelaker]

This thread had potential, but there are a few folks that just arenot willing to listen to, or willing to admit that they dont know how to weld. And they dont want to hear that they are not as good a weldor as they think they are. Their dribble has led to the original OP abandoning this thread and this web site. Those same folks couldnt even passup the opportunity to gloat about the fact that they made the OP leave this site and havent missed a chance to throw more mud in the OP direction.

When you abuse your older workers, you endup with the unexperienced and uneducated as the teachers of the new comers. Those newcomers dont know enough to know that they are being taught wrong. So you end up with threads like this one that strays from the original topic simply because there is no one left that can contribute anything of value.

I myself have placed most of the self proclaimed experts, those that dont know enough to know just how ignorant they are, on my ignore list. I find this limits the dribble I have to read. I wont even have to see their replys to this post. I dont think I will miss anything of value simply because they dont have anything of value to contribute

Well said. I have my 120v mig up for sale because I weld enough bigger stuff, I don't want to screw around cheating the process for marginal welds. Last Thursday I welded a tounge on a trailer and my little Lincoln was too small for safety reasons so I used the stick.
Something I would like to see rather than bend tests is some etching done on these "Hella strong" welds as that would show penetration and prove some points. I cannot seem to embed youtube vids on here but look up "Macro etching welds with common household chemicals"<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/8DPhc5K_thg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[k0ua]

Here you go.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DPhc5K_thg

 

[Fifelaker]

Thanks!

 

[KubotaOwner]

This thread had potential, but there are a few folks that just arenot willing to listen to, or willing to admit that they dont know how to weld. And they dont want to hear that they are not as good a weldor as they think they are. Their dribble has led to the original OP abandoning this thread and this web site. Those same folks couldnt even passup the opportunity to gloat about the fact that they made the OP leave this site and havent missed a chance to throw more mud in the OP direction.

When you abuse your older workers, you endup with the unexperienced and uneducated as the teachers of the new comers. Those newcomers dont know enough to know that they are being taught wrong. So you end up with threads like this one that strays from the original topic simply because there is no one left that can contribute anything of value.

I myself have placed most of the self proclaimed experts, those that dont know enough to know just how ignorant they are, on my ignore list. I find this limits the dribble I have to read. I wont even have to see their replys to this post. I dont think I will miss anything of value simply because they dont have anything of value to contribute

VERY well said. I will miss reading Shield Arc's tips about welding learned from a lifetime of experience. Sure he was opinionated, as are many people who spent a significant portion of their life doing something. It's really not that hard to look beyond that.

 

[Sodo]

What tractor operator needs to etch welds?

It appears that the primary interest on this tractor subforum wrt to welding, is to discuss without doing. But some folks come on because they want to git'er done. There is a whole lot more discussion of target shooting the perfect weld on a test plate.

It is a valid goal, to solve a problem by welding, achieve a strong joining, and move forward. An expert able to assess serviceability of welds will be useful (to some folks) on a tractor subforum. The number of members that have time for test plate welding is so few that you can pretty much count them on your balls.

I enjoy the technical discussion of test plates, etc too. But actual projects have been so sparse that the inflammatory subject of 120v is enough to set people off. Kinda comical actually.

 

[aczlan]

What tractor operator needs to etch welds?

One who wants to see how well their welds will hold up and doesnt have a press to test until it fails??

It appears that the primary interest here (on this tractor subforum) wrt to welding, is to discuss without doing. But some folks come on because they want to git'er done. There is a whole lot more discussion of target shooting the perfect weld on a test plate. It is a valid goal, to solve the problem, achieve a strong joining, and move forward.

The purpose of doing a test plate is to verify that your technique and settings are good enough to "git'er done".

An expert able to assess serviceability of welds will be more useful to some folks on a tractor subforum. At least such experience can provide balance, closer to reality. The number of members that have time for test plate welding is so few that you can pretty much count them on your balls. Arc Weld doesn't do test plates, or projects, for that matter.

I suspect that Arc Weld has done as many inches of weld on test plate as most any other 3-4 members on this site.

I enjoy the technical discussion of test plates, etc, but hasn't been much balance. In fact its so sparse that the subject of 120v is enough to set people off. Kinda comical actually.

No, people with an attitude who post pictures asking for suggestions on how to improve, then belittle those who make suggestions while offering questionable advice to those who are just startign is what sets people off.
You might notice that others (myself included) have posted projects welded with 120v migs and have received some good suggestions on how to improve their welds.

Aaron Z

 

[arrow]

I taught some of the roughest bunches of high school kids you can imagine. There were some very discouraging days. What kept me going was that I new i could help some of them and they appreciated what I was doing for them. Delivery of information is a valuable entity especially the one's gleaned from experience. For me it was the reward garnered from those individuals who felt I enriched them in some way. I refused (and it wasn't easy) to be thwarted by those interested in disparagement more so than information and let that win.
No matter what, I appreciated Shield's contributions as well as Sodo's and everything in between . I realized the two were coming from different angles and considered both backgrounds. If it means anything, between all of the human detritus we can muster as a species, I valued highly their contributions that were shared for my and other's improvement.

 

[dragoneggs]

No matter what, I appreciated Shield's contributions as well as Sodo's and everything in between . I realized the two were coming from different angles and considered both backgrounds. If it means anything, between all of the human detritus we can muster as a species, I valued highly their contributions that were shared for my and other's improvement.

Well said... taking sides is absolutely childish. Appreciate what you can learn from others. It may be a little or a lot. You never know when you might need help and it comes from the person you least thought could provide it. Not just talking about welding here.

 

[Reverser]

Well said... taking sides is absolutely childish. Appreciate what you can learn from others. It may be a little or a lot. You never know when you might need help and it comes from the person you least thought could provide it. Not just talking about welding here.

Also well said. That other thread that caused such a ruckus did nothing but cause division. A person doesn't need to choose sides nor should they be asked to.
I learn from and appreciate individuals on both sides. I especially appreciate those who have had hands on experience. And those that have found a way to do something easier or simpler than going exactly by the book. Sometimes there are tricks or short cuts which are just as safe and just as sound.

 

[downsizingnow48]

Thanks for that etching video, very interesting and useful.

 

[Big Barn]

I taught some of the roughest bunches of high school kids you can imagine. There were some very discouraging days. What kept me going was that I new i could help some of them and they appreciated what I was doing for them. Delivery of information is a valuable entity especially the one's gleaned from experience. For me it was the reward garnered from those individuals who felt I enriched them in some way. I refused (and it wasn't easy) to be thwarted by those interested in disparagement more so than information and let that win. No matter what, I appreciated Shield's contributions as well as Sodo's and everything in between . I realized the two were coming from different angles and considered both backgrounds. If it means anything, between all of the human detritus we can muster as a species, I valued highly their contributions that were shared for my and other's improvement.

Also well said. That other thread that caused such a ruckus did nothing but cause division. A person doesn't need to choose sides nor should they be asked to. I learn from and appreciate individuals on both sides. I especially appreciate those who have had hands on experience. And those that have found a way to do something easier or simpler than going exactly by the book. Sometimes there are tricks or short cuts which are just as safe and just as sound.

Nice thoughts. Thanks.

Terry

 

[muddstopper]

I I was trying to think of the proper word to describe the attitudes of a few certain contributors. I thought about headstrong, unyeilding, stubborn, bullheaded, and a few other terms, but then ran across this definition. Since this contains all of the words I had already considered, I just thought I would share.

Meanings of the word ?pigheaded?

Pigheaded means bullheaded, stubborn, unyielding, and headstrong. These other words mean the same thing: going way beyond firm. For example, when a person is being persuaded by other people and he or she goes beyond just saying no but says ?no? even when he or she has realized the truth behind what the other people are saying, he or she is being pigheaded. Pigheaded is actually a stronger word for stubborn. Pigs are, however, smart animals and can be trained by their owners. Pigheaded people cannot be convinced to do anything. So how come such people are compared to pigs?

Pigheaded also means inflexible. This is just a different way of looking at extremely stubborn people. Inflexibility suggests that they are refusing because they are used to doing the same old thing all the time.

Pigheaded also means dense. This is an attack on the intelligence of the person in question. Maybe he or she does not agree or refuses to believe because he or she cannot understand the whole point.

In the end, the various definitions of pigheaded truly describe extremely stubborn people. However, they do not bring back the meanings to the source of the word: pigs. Pigs seem farther apart from the word ?pigheaded? as the meanings and the pigs? actual behavior are dissected and compared.

Pigs' behavior and human behavior

When you say a certain person is pigheaded and that person is indeed incredibly stubborn, you soon get the point. It is not because pigs are stubborn creatures. In fact, pigs eat anything served to them. They are fattened up, slaughtered, and then eaten. They seem better compared to stubborn people. Still, the word pigheaded has already stuck in the human psyche. People also easily accepted the negative connotations surrounding pigs. ?Pig? became almost like a foul word. Humans, who generally feel like the smartest creatures in this world, feel that being compared to any animal is derogatory. It does not occur to them that maybe pigs would have complained if they know what is continually being said about them.

 

[Sodo]

No, people with an attitude who post pictures asking for suggestions on how to improve, then belittle those who make suggestions while offering questionable advice to those who are just startign is what sets people off.

Pretty clear that simply: "success with 120v" sets some fellas off, which is either comical or pitiful, but whatever,,,,

FWIW you do not have to etch a weld to know if its suitable weld for a tractor subforum. If you continue in your advancement at welding you will find this to be the case. Makes sense for welding a gas pipe & is interesting but not essential for your developement. If you can choose etching -or- direct assistance with someone looking over your shoulder I hope you can tell which is more useful.

Threads sure get outta whack a few pages in, so many subjects nobody knows what to post anymore. Nice that the tone has "lightened up" hope it keeps this way.

 

[muddstopper]

One who wants to see how well their welds will hold up and doesnt have a press to test until it fails??


The purpose of doing a test plate is to verify that your technique and settings are good enough to "git'er done".


I suspect that Arc Weld has done as many inches of weld on test plate as most any other 3-4 members on this site.


No, people with an attitude who post pictures asking for suggestions on how to improve, then belittle those who make suggestions while offering questionable advice to those who are just startign is what sets people off.
You might notice that others (myself included) have posted projects welded with 120v migs and have received some good suggestions on how to improve their welds.

Aaron Z

You are 100% correct in your statements. Because of the ignore feature, I wouldnot have seen Sodo post had you not quoted it in your own post. I honestly believe he thinks he is correct with his advise, but feel he is desperately begging for help. Surely he is not so dense that he cannot grasp the injustice he is doing to himself by his continual disreguard for proper welding techniques. Surely he should realize that his "good enough to get the job done", isnt necessarly the best way to get the job done. Surely he doesnt think that just because he chooses to dismiss good safety practices, he shouldnt expect other to do as he does. Just because one chooses to jump off a cliff, they should not expect others to follow. Just because he chooses not to try to improve his own work, doesnt mean others here dont come here to try and improve their own skill level. Yes his work and skill level might be more than adequate for his own use, but that doesnt give him the right to try to convince others his way is the best way, or that his way is acceptable. It is his life, he can throw it away if he wants to. For many here, or at least speaking just for myself. I cant find anything acceptable about the way he welds, or his attitude of, if you dont agree with him then you must be attacked, belittled, or harrassed. That is the reason I chose to place him on ignore.

 

[k0ua]

FWIW you do not have to etch a weld to know if its suitable weld for a tractor subforum. Makes sense for a gas pipe though. Sorry I can't explain much better than that but if you continue in your advancement at welding you will find this to be the case.

Sodo, can you explain this a little better please? Because what I got was that "tractor forum" welding does not require good penetration? Huh? I don't mean to attack you, but I sure disagree with that statement if that is what you said.

 

[Fifelaker]

I disagree with the "you don't have to test a weld to be good enough for a tractor" attitude. How do you know without testing if a weld is strong? Now do not go out on a limb and say "how do you test every weld" I think we all know what I meant by my statement. If you never test anything how would you know? Just because a weld looks ok does not mean it is. I also do not see a difference between a farmer welding something and a pro. The whole goal SHOULD be to do it correctly the first time.
Maybe the pros hate the 120v welders for a reason. because they KNOW it takes amps to do it safely and correctly. I have that mindset that is why I am selling my little Lincoln and going bigger. It cannot do what a larger machine can period. Mig welds are one of the worst welds to look at and tell if they are sound or not. An experienced eye can tell if certain parts are sound then take an educated guess on the rest. The toes are the first place to look then bead profile. But without some testing it is impossible to 100% guarantee it is a good weld.