newbury
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Another thread gone to waste.
120-Volt Mig welder.
- Thread starter Shield Arc
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muddstopper
Veteran Member
This thread had potential, but there are a few folks that just arenot willing to listen to, or willing to admit that they dont know how to weld. And they dont want to hear that they are not as good a weldor as they think they are. Their dribble has led to the original OP abandoning this thread and this web site. Those same folks couldnt even passup the opportunity to gloat about the fact that they made the OP leave this site and havent missed a chance to throw more mud in the OP direction.
When you abuse your older workers, you endup with the unexperienced and uneducated as the teachers of the new comers. Those newcomers dont know enough to know that they are being taught wrong. So you end up with threads like this one that strays from the original topic simply because there is no one left that can contribute anything of value.
I myself have placed most of the self proclaimed experts, those that dont know enough to know just how ignorant they are, on my ignore list. I find this limits the dribble I have to read. I wont even have to see their replys to this post. I dont think I will miss anything of value simply because they dont have anything of value to contribute
Fifelaker
Bronze Member
Well said. I have my 120v mig up for sale because I weld enough bigger stuff, I don't want to screw around cheating the process for marginal welds. Last Thursday I welded a tounge on a trailer and my little Lincoln was too small for safety reasons so I used the stick.
Something I would like to see rather than bend tests is some etching done on these "Hella strong" welds as that would show penetration and prove some points. I cannot seem to embed youtube vids on here but look up "Macro etching welds with common household chemicals"<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/8DPhc5K_thg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
k0ua
Epic Contributor
Fifelaker
Bronze Member
Thanks!
KubotaOwner
Member
VERY well said. I will miss reading Shield Arc's tips about welding learned from a lifetime of experience. Sure he was opinionated, as are many people who spent a significant portion of their life doing something. It's really not that hard to look beyond that.
Sodo
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What tractor operator needs to etch welds?
It appears that the primary interest on this tractor subforum wrt to welding, is to discuss without doing. But some folks come on because they want to git'er done. There is a whole lot more discussion of target shooting the perfect weld on a test plate.
It is a valid goal, to solve a problem by welding, achieve a strong joining, and move forward. An expert able to assess serviceability of welds will be useful (to some folks) on a tractor subforum. The number of members that have time for test plate welding is so few that you can pretty much count them on your balls.
I enjoy the technical discussion of test plates, etc too. But actual projects have been so sparse that the inflammatory subject of 120v is enough to set people off. Kinda comical actually.
It appears that the primary interest on this tractor subforum wrt to welding, is to discuss without doing. But some folks come on because they want to git'er done. There is a whole lot more discussion of target shooting the perfect weld on a test plate.
It is a valid goal, to solve a problem by welding, achieve a strong joining, and move forward. An expert able to assess serviceability of welds will be useful (to some folks) on a tractor subforum. The number of members that have time for test plate welding is so few that you can pretty much count them on your balls.
I enjoy the technical discussion of test plates, etc too. But actual projects have been so sparse that the inflammatory subject of 120v is enough to set people off. Kinda comical actually.
Last edited:
aczlan
Good Morning
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One who wants to see how well their welds will hold up and doesnt have a press to test until it fails??
The purpose of doing a test plate is to verify that your technique and settings are good enough to "git'er done".
I suspect that Arc Weld has done as many inches of weld on test plate as most any other 3-4 members on this site.
No, people with an attitude who post pictures asking for suggestions on how to improve, then belittle those who make suggestions while offering questionable advice to those who are just startign is what sets people off.
You might notice that others (myself included) have posted projects welded with 120v migs and have received some good suggestions on how to improve their welds.
Aaron Z
arrow
Super Member
I taught some of the roughest bunches of high school kids you can imagine. There were some very discouraging days. What kept me going was that I new i could help some of them and they appreciated what I was doing for them. Delivery of information is a valuable entity especially the one's gleaned from experience. For me it was the reward garnered from those individuals who felt I enriched them in some way. I refused (and it wasn't easy) to be thwarted by those interested in disparagement more so than information and let that win.
No matter what, I appreciated Shield's contributions as well as Sodo's and everything in between . I realized the two were coming from different angles and considered both backgrounds. If it means anything, between all of the human detritus we can muster as a species, I valued highly their contributions that were shared for my and other's improvement.
No matter what, I appreciated Shield's contributions as well as Sodo's and everything in between . I realized the two were coming from different angles and considered both backgrounds. If it means anything, between all of the human detritus we can muster as a species, I valued highly their contributions that were shared for my and other's improvement.
dragoneggs
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Well said... taking sides is absolutely childish. Appreciate what you can learn from others. It may be a little or a lot. You never know when you might need help and it comes from the person you least thought could provide it. Not just talking about welding here.
Also well said. That other thread that caused such a ruckus did nothing but cause division. A person doesn't need to choose sides nor should they be asked to.
I learn from and appreciate individuals on both sides. I especially appreciate those who have had hands on experience. And those that have found a way to do something easier or simpler than going exactly by the book. Sometimes there are tricks or short cuts which are just as safe and just as sound.
downsizingnow48
Elite Member
Thanks for that etching video, very interesting and useful.
Big Barn
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muddstopper
Veteran Member
I I was trying to think of the proper word to describe the attitudes of a few certain contributors. I thought about headstrong, unyeilding, stubborn, bullheaded, and a few other terms, but then ran across this definition. Since this contains all of the words I had already considered, I just thought I would share.
Meanings of the word ?pigheaded?
Pigheaded means bullheaded, stubborn, unyielding, and headstrong. These other words mean the same thing: going way beyond firm. For example, when a person is being persuaded by other people and he or she goes beyond just saying no but says ?no? even when he or she has realized the truth behind what the other people are saying, he or she is being pigheaded. Pigheaded is actually a stronger word for stubborn. Pigs are, however, smart animals and can be trained by their owners. Pigheaded people cannot be convinced to do anything. So how come such people are compared to pigs?
Pigheaded also means inflexible. This is just a different way of looking at extremely stubborn people. Inflexibility suggests that they are refusing because they are used to doing the same old thing all the time.
Pigheaded also means dense. This is an attack on the intelligence of the person in question. Maybe he or she does not agree or refuses to believe because he or she cannot understand the whole point.
In the end, the various definitions of pigheaded truly describe extremely stubborn people. However, they do not bring back the meanings to the source of the word: pigs. Pigs seem farther apart from the word ?pigheaded? as the meanings and the pigs? actual behavior are dissected and compared.
Pigs' behavior and human behavior
When you say a certain person is pigheaded and that person is indeed incredibly stubborn, you soon get the point. It is not because pigs are stubborn creatures. In fact, pigs eat anything served to them. They are fattened up, slaughtered, and then eaten. They seem better compared to stubborn people. Still, the word pigheaded has already stuck in the human psyche. People also easily accepted the negative connotations surrounding pigs. ?Pig? became almost like a foul word. Humans, who generally feel like the smartest creatures in this world, feel that being compared to any animal is derogatory. It does not occur to them that maybe pigs would have complained if they know what is continually being said about them.
Meanings of the word ?pigheaded?
Pigheaded means bullheaded, stubborn, unyielding, and headstrong. These other words mean the same thing: going way beyond firm. For example, when a person is being persuaded by other people and he or she goes beyond just saying no but says ?no? even when he or she has realized the truth behind what the other people are saying, he or she is being pigheaded. Pigheaded is actually a stronger word for stubborn. Pigs are, however, smart animals and can be trained by their owners. Pigheaded people cannot be convinced to do anything. So how come such people are compared to pigs?
Pigheaded also means inflexible. This is just a different way of looking at extremely stubborn people. Inflexibility suggests that they are refusing because they are used to doing the same old thing all the time.
Pigheaded also means dense. This is an attack on the intelligence of the person in question. Maybe he or she does not agree or refuses to believe because he or she cannot understand the whole point.
In the end, the various definitions of pigheaded truly describe extremely stubborn people. However, they do not bring back the meanings to the source of the word: pigs. Pigs seem farther apart from the word ?pigheaded? as the meanings and the pigs? actual behavior are dissected and compared.
Pigs' behavior and human behavior
When you say a certain person is pigheaded and that person is indeed incredibly stubborn, you soon get the point. It is not because pigs are stubborn creatures. In fact, pigs eat anything served to them. They are fattened up, slaughtered, and then eaten. They seem better compared to stubborn people. Still, the word pigheaded has already stuck in the human psyche. People also easily accepted the negative connotations surrounding pigs. ?Pig? became almost like a foul word. Humans, who generally feel like the smartest creatures in this world, feel that being compared to any animal is derogatory. It does not occur to them that maybe pigs would have complained if they know what is continually being said about them.
Sodo
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Pretty clear that simply: "success with 120v" sets some fellas off, which is either comical or pitiful, but whatever,,,,
FWIW you do not have to etch a weld to know if its suitable weld for a tractor subforum. If you continue in your advancement at welding you will find this to be the case. Makes sense for welding a gas pipe & is interesting but not essential for your developement. If you can choose etching -or- direct assistance with someone looking over your shoulder I hope you can tell which is more useful.
Threads sure get outta whack a few pages in, so many subjects nobody knows what to post anymore. Nice that the tone has "lightened up" hope it keeps this way.
muddstopper
Veteran Member
You are 100% correct in your statements. Because of the ignore feature, I wouldnot have seen Sodo post had you not quoted it in your own post. I honestly believe he thinks he is correct with his advise, but feel he is desperately begging for help. Surely he is not so dense that he cannot grasp the injustice he is doing to himself by his continual disreguard for proper welding techniques. Surely he should realize that his "good enough to get the job done", isnt necessarly the best way to get the job done. Surely he doesnt think that just because he chooses to dismiss good safety practices, he shouldnt expect other to do as he does. Just because one chooses to jump off a cliff, they should not expect others to follow. Just because he chooses not to try to improve his own work, doesnt mean others here dont come here to try and improve their own skill level. Yes his work and skill level might be more than adequate for his own use, but that doesnt give him the right to try to convince others his way is the best way, or that his way is acceptable. It is his life, he can throw it away if he wants to. For many here, or at least speaking just for myself. I cant find anything acceptable about the way he welds, or his attitude of, if you dont agree with him then you must be attacked, belittled, or harrassed. That is the reason I chose to place him on ignore.
k0ua
Epic Contributor
Sodo, can you explain this a little better please? Because what I got was that "tractor forum" welding does not require good penetration? Huh? I don't mean to attack you, but I sure disagree with that statement if that is what you said.
Fifelaker
Bronze Member
I disagree with the "you don't have to test a weld to be good enough for a tractor" attitude. How do you know without testing if a weld is strong? Now do not go out on a limb and say "how do you test every weld" I think we all know what I meant by my statement. If you never test anything how would you know? Just because a weld looks ok does not mean it is. I also do not see a difference between a farmer welding something and a pro. The whole goal SHOULD be to do it correctly the first time.
Maybe the pros hate the 120v welders for a reason. because they KNOW it takes amps to do it safely and correctly. I have that mindset that is why I am selling my little Lincoln and going bigger. It cannot do what a larger machine can period. Mig welds are one of the worst welds to look at and tell if they are sound or not. An experienced eye can tell if certain parts are sound then take an educated guess on the rest. The toes are the first place to look then bead profile. But without some testing it is impossible to 100% guarantee it is a good weld.
Maybe the pros hate the 120v welders for a reason. because they KNOW it takes amps to do it safely and correctly. I have that mindset that is why I am selling my little Lincoln and going bigger. It cannot do what a larger machine can period. Mig welds are one of the worst welds to look at and tell if they are sound or not. An experienced eye can tell if certain parts are sound then take an educated guess on the rest. The toes are the first place to look then bead profile. But without some testing it is impossible to 100% guarantee it is a good weld.
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