OP
joshuabardwell
Elite Member
Yup. I'm downright chummy with the neighbor who runs a sawmill, and he came off the same way at first.
Thoughts on this used welder?
- Thread starter joshuabardwell
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Yup. I'm downright chummy with the neighbor who runs a sawmill, and he came off the same way at first.
Shield Arc
Super Member
Oh you'd be surprised what a guy will do for donuts! When ever I was sent into a new area to start a project, the first week I'd show up with a couple dozen donuts every morning, and meet the guys at their dry shack, or in the parking lot. They would just about kill them selves all day long for that little gesture.:licking:
OP
joshuabardwell
Elite Member
Okay. Found a friend of a friend with a 240 hookup so I could see if the welder works. It will weld, so that's good! What's wrong with it is that the on/off switch sticks in the on position and the fan doesn't blow. I am pretty sure I can get the switch to work with a little finagling. The fan, I'm a little less certain about, especially seeing as I don't have any 240 to test it with. Well, I suppose I do have a dryer outlet, but I think that would be a little touchy, since it would involve bare, live connections.
Any thoughts are welcome.
BTW, I assume the fan is supposed to be on 100% of the time, not, like, temperature operated or something. Right?
EDIT TO ADD: I have shopped around and it looks like replacement fan motors are in the $60 range. If that's the case, I think this one is a pass and I'm going to try to return it. I dunno. This welder was a can't-pass deal at $100, but at$160-$180 I may be able to do better. What do you think?
Any thoughts are welcome.
BTW, I assume the fan is supposed to be on 100% of the time, not, like, temperature operated or something. Right?
EDIT TO ADD: I have shopped around and it looks like replacement fan motors are in the $60 range. If that's the case, I think this one is a pass and I'm going to try to return it. I dunno. This welder was a can't-pass deal at $100, but at$160-$180 I may be able to do better. What do you think?
k0ua
Epic Contributor
the fact the fan motor is dead, is a bummer.. You could try to repair the fan,, a quick ohm check will likely find the coil is open. Sometimes they very fine coil wire breaks right at the junction where it fastens to the much larger input wire. But you would have to cut in to it to try to find that.. yeah the fan should run all the time.. The welder is basicly the same as a Century 110-114 Century was bought up by Lincoln in 2003. I would be hard pressed to put tht 60 in the fan motor either.. I would try to repair the motor, or try to find another one out of something else. I was really hoping the machine would be in 100 percent shape.
James K0UA
James K0UA
OP
joshuabardwell
Elite Member
I'm torn. Without a 240 outlet, I don't have much of a good way to hook up the fan and test it. And I'm hesitant to put in a 240 outlet if I don't have a working welder, so it's a bit of a chicken-and-the-egg. I'm not dying to learn to weld right this minute--this was just a good deal on a good welder that I didn't want to pass up. I'm sort of inclined to take it back to the guy and go back to waiting.
If it's the same as a Century 110, then the replacement fan motor is more like $75. I dunno... where else am I going to find a replacement motor? A welder junkyard?
EDIT TO ADD: Another thought would be to see if the seller would refund me the cost of the motor instead of a full refund. Could be the best of both worlds.
Shield Arc
Super Member
Have you tried bumping the blades on the fan to force it to rotate? Sometimes when something like this sets for awhile they just need a little bump, and a couple squirts of WD-40. I have an exhaust fan in my shop that needs a little encouragement once in awhile.:laughing:
OP
joshuabardwell
Elite Member
I will give that a go, but that old chicken-and-egg problem is still a sticker. Maybe I could go back to the neighbor's shop and try troubleshooting with his outlet.
Shield Arc
Super Member
You might as well go ahead and get a 220-volt outlet hooked up! I think you already have the welding bug.
cqaigy2
Super Member
The fan could be only 120 volt. Probably something out of a exhaust fan would work as well. But $100...
k0ua
Epic Contributor
Yes by all means try spinning the motor blades by hand, and see what gives there.. I would also ohm the coil with it disconnected and see what is going on there. I am assuming you don't feel comfortable putting in your own receptacle outside? If you don't feel comfortable then don't do it.. but if you do, you could save some bucks there, by getting your own rain-tite box and crows foot receptacle for it. You are going to want it sooner or later. I put in 50 amp receptacle's both inside and outside, I weld small jobs inside, and anything that would generate a lot of smoke goes outside, and of course welding on the tractor is an outside proposition.
James K0UA
James K0UA
k0ua
Epic Contributor
I think the fan is across the L1 and L2 lines, the cord is liable to only have 3 wires L1 L2 and ground, I do not believe it will have a neutral, therefor no 120 volts.. The ground is not intended to carry any current. Joshua can comment, but I bet that the 3rd wire is grounded to the metal case of the welder and there is only 220/230/240 volts available .
James K0UA
OP
joshuabardwell
Elite Member
The welder only has a three prong plug. I believe that it's a 6-50; no crow's foot on the hot leads. Since it's a three-prong, it's only got hot, hot, and neutral--no separate ground. Neutral is tied off to the chassis of the welder. Hot/hot go through the on/off switch. On the far side of the on/off switch the hot leads go to the main transformer. Two leads also go from there to the fan motor. I don't have it in front of me, but I don't think the fan motor has a separate ground lead. Of course, the fan has to be grounded somewhere. Maybe it could be grounded through the motor's body, through the motor mount, to the chassis.
k0ua
Epic Contributor
yeah it is a 230 volt fan. the third lead is not considered a Neutral, it is considered a ground. it is not for current carrying in normal operation, it is there if the transformer develops a leak to the case, it will trip the breaker instead of the case becoming energized and a shock hazard.
James K0UA
k0ua
Epic Contributor
OP
joshuabardwell
Elite Member
So does that mean that 220/230/240 appliances don't need ground/neutral to complete the circuit? Because... some kind of magic with the difference in voltage between the hot wires?
Yup.
OP
joshuabardwell
Elite Member
You know, I wouldn't feel comfortable doing it only because I don't have the experience with wiring in a service panel, and I know there are simple mistakes that can be made that can create problems. But I learned today that my neighbor used to be an electrician and he said he'd come over and walk me through it if I wanted, so I may go ahead with that. I've got no problem with pulling cable and mounting things on/in walls, as that is actually a part of my job every now and then.
k0ua
Epic Contributor
Yes.. all current flows between the 2 phases.. L1 and L2.. (or Line 1 and Line2 connections) No ground necessary for operation, but is necessary for safety. In a regular 115 volt receptical, you have a neutral and a line (either L1 or L2 depending on which slot the breaker is placed in) this gives you 115-120 volts nominal depending on your 2 phases coming in. the 220-230-240 volts between the phases. The green ground is safety ground. It is not meant to carry current. The neutral is meant to carry current. All current that flows from the line also flows thru the neutral. If you removed the 3rd wire the green ground in your welder, it would operate perfectly fine, unless there was a problem with one of the lines coming in contact with the chassis. Then the chassis would become energized and you would not know it until you touched it with some other part of your body touching ground.
James K0UA
k0ua
Epic Contributor
Further though, and appliance like a stove for instance will likely need 4 wire cable to hook up properly, as it will have 2 phases and a neutral and a ground. As some things in the stove work from 120 volts like fans lamps and electronic controls. But the elements will be powered from the 230/240 volt lines. And still it needs ground on the chassis for safety.
James K0UA
James K0UA
OP
joshuabardwell
Elite Member
Good news! I rigged up some leads to just the fan (not the welder) and alligator-clipped them to my dryer plug's hot pins so that I could continue to work on the fan. A little WD-40 brought it back to life. It looks like this one's a keeper!
k0ua
Epic Contributor
Whooo Hoo!.. got her going! Now I gotta say.. You have guts enough to do that, I bet with a little help you can hook up that box and and put in a 50 amp breaker.!
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