Thoughts on this used welder?

[k0ua]

The fan could be only 120 volt. Probably something out of a exhaust fan would work as well. But $100...

I think the fan is across the L1 and L2 lines, the cord is liable to only have 3 wires L1 L2 and ground, I do not believe it will have a neutral, therefor no 120 volts.. The ground is not intended to carry any current. Joshua can comment, but I bet that the 3rd wire is grounded to the metal case of the welder and there is only 220/230/240 volts available .

James K0UA

 

[joshuabardwell]

The welder only has a three prong plug. I believe that it's a 6-50; no crow's foot on the hot leads. Since it's a three-prong, it's only got hot, hot, and neutral--no separate ground. Neutral is tied off to the chassis of the welder. Hot/hot go through the on/off switch. On the far side of the on/off switch the hot leads go to the main transformer. Two leads also go from there to the fan motor. I don't have it in front of me, but I don't think the fan motor has a separate ground lead. Of course, the fan has to be grounded somewhere. Maybe it could be grounded through the motor's body, through the motor mount, to the chassis.

 

[k0ua]

The welder only has a three prong plug. I believe that it's a 6-50; no crow's foot on the hot leads. Since it's a three-prong, it's only got hot, hot, and neutral--no separate ground. Neutral is tied off to the chassis of the welder. Hot/hot go through the on/off switch. On the far side of the on/off switch the hot leads go to the main transformer. Two leads also go from there to the fan motor. I don't have it in front of me, but I don't think the fan motor has a separate ground lead. Of course, the fan has to be grounded somewhere. Maybe it could be grounded through the motor's body, through the motor mount, to the chassis.

yeah it is a 230 volt fan. the third lead is not considered a Neutral, it is considered a ground. it is not for current carrying in normal operation, it is there if the transformer develops a leak to the case, it will trip the breaker instead of the case becoming energized and a shock hazard.

James K0UA

 

[k0ua]

Is this your plug?

HUBBELL WIRING DEVICE-KELLEMS Plug, Angle, 6-50 NEMA - Straight Blade Devices - 6C119|HBL9368 - Grainger Industrial Supply

 

[joshuabardwell]

yeah it is a 230 volt fan. the third lead is not considered a Neutral, it is considered a ground. it is not for current carrying in normal operation, it is there if the transformer develops a leak to the case, it will trip the breaker instead of the case becoming energized and a shock hazard.

So does that mean that 220/230/240 appliances don't need ground/neutral to complete the circuit? Because... some kind of magic with the difference in voltage between the hot wires?

Is this your plug?

Yup.

 

[joshuabardwell]

I am assuming you don't feel comfortable putting in your own receptacle outside? If you don't feel comfortable then don't do it.. but if you do, you could save some bucks there, by getting your own rain-tite box and crows foot receptacle for it.

You know, I wouldn't feel comfortable doing it only because I don't have the experience with wiring in a service panel, and I know there are simple mistakes that can be made that can create problems. But I learned today that my neighbor used to be an electrician and he said he'd come over and walk me through it if I wanted, so I may go ahead with that. I've got no problem with pulling cable and mounting things on/in walls, as that is actually a part of my job every now and then.

 

[k0ua]

So does that mean that 220/230/240 appliances don't need ground/neutral to complete the circuit? Because... some kind of magic with the difference in voltage between the hot wires?



Yup.

Yes.. all current flows between the 2 phases.. L1 and L2.. (or Line 1 and Line2 connections) No ground necessary for operation, but is necessary for safety. In a regular 115 volt receptical, you have a neutral and a line (either L1 or L2 depending on which slot the breaker is placed in) this gives you 115-120 volts nominal depending on your 2 phases coming in. the 220-230-240 volts between the phases. The green ground is safety ground. It is not meant to carry current. The neutral is meant to carry current. All current that flows from the line also flows thru the neutral. If you removed the 3rd wire the green ground in your welder, it would operate perfectly fine, unless there was a problem with one of the lines coming in contact with the chassis. Then the chassis would become energized and you would not know it until you touched it with some other part of your body touching ground.

James K0UA

 

[k0ua]

Further though, and appliance like a stove for instance will likely need 4 wire cable to hook up properly, as it will have 2 phases and a neutral and a ground. As some things in the stove work from 120 volts like fans lamps and electronic controls. But the elements will be powered from the 230/240 volt lines. And still it needs ground on the chassis for safety.

James K0UA

 

[joshuabardwell]

Good news! I rigged up some leads to just the fan (not the welder) and alligator-clipped them to my dryer plug's hot pins so that I could continue to work on the fan. A little WD-40 brought it back to life. It looks like this one's a keeper!

 

[k0ua]

Good news! I rigged up some leads to just the fan (not the welder) and alligator-clipped them to my dryer plug's hot pins so that I could continue to work on the fan. A little WD-40 brought it back to life. It looks like this one's a keeper!

View attachment 278946

Whooo Hoo!.. got her going! Now I gotta say.. You have guts enough to do that, I bet with a little help you can hook up that box and and put in a 50 amp breaker.!