Using tractor in water - Bad idea?

[alchemysa]

I've done a fair bit of mechanical work over the years and cant say I've ever seen much (if any) damage caused by fresh water. Dirt and salt are the main concerns. They lead to worn oil seals, loss of grease, incursion of more grit, rust, and ultimately the breakdown of bearings etc. But fresh water alone is no great problem. It dries out.

That said, how clean is the water? Ive read that when a hot diff hits cold water it virtually sucks water into the diff through the seals as the air and oil inside the diff rapidly shrinks.

 

[Pharm]

Thanks for the replies.

I didn't even think about the vent tubes. I'll have to check it out. Hopefully I haven't done any damage already ... the creek was relatively low. I don't cross that much in the Kobota but this thread has definitely taught me that I need to know my machine better. It's great to have you all as a resource.

I don't cross that much. We've crossed the creek on the Massey numerous times and in my F-150 occasionally. ATV is the only thing I've had damaged but it sees a lot more creek action.

A bridge is on the wish list - but then again there are a lot of things on my wish list. Can only get to them one at a time. :laughing:

 

[MHarryE]

Just curious about why water is so damaging to a seal. I live in an area surrounded by 10,000 lakes and every weekend in the summer the landings are filled with boats going in and out of the water, all with the axles submerged and then sitting there in the water while the boat is launched or recovered. Often they have been driven hard for 200 miles from the Cities and the hot hubs get dunked in cold water. A boat trailer has pretty cheap, light bearings and seals compared to a tractor. Sure, there are Bearing Buddies but I can't recall anyone pulling out a grease gun and filling the hubs after leaving the water. How come I don't see the sides of the highways littered with boat trailers missing wheels? Sure, it happens once in awhile but usually seen on a rusty, 30 year old trailer that looks like it has never been serviced. Not saying everyone who says not to do it is wrong, just wondering why I don't see more casualties.

 

[JoeL4330]

first line of defense, as mentioned, is to relocate vents, with tubing...these are generally vented to the atmosphere, but I might consider capping them with balloons partly inflated ...my rationale would be to ensure some modest positive pressure ...not enough to blow a seal, but enough so no water would enter ...if you have greasable wheeel bearings, then consider grease used on boat trailers (marine grade, as mentioned) and look at "bearing buddies" or equivalent ...other than that, I would have little concern, although I might hose things down at the end of the day ...if you want to ford really high water, that's the time to look at relocating electronics, along with liberal use of dielectric grease, as well as ducting the fresh air intake and changing the exhaust to a vertical stack ...but, as far as I can tell from your pic, the water would never get high enough to compromise air intake and exhaust ...on my tractor, some of the "idiot-proofing" (like the HST safety switch that locks out the starter) would be vulnerable ...but, again, dielectric grease should do the trick ...all that said, I wouldn't worry about fording your steam at other than flood conditions and/or very fast moving water. I would, however, pay close attention to recommended greasing specs ...when you lube, observe the grease that is expelled and you'll quickly know whether you are tempting fate ...milky, yellowish...quite obvious.

 

[3930dave]

I don't know the OP's practice in this regard, but one thing to consider re. water is using a pressure washer.

Used to be, old tractors never got washed at all, other than by the rain. Today, some tractors get detailed way beyond what my car sees. Using a 3,000psi pressure washer anywhere near a seal can create way bigger problems than fording a creek once in a while, even without cleaners injected at the pressure washer.

Learned to think about this watching my buddy service his kid's MX race bikes - they are constantly being pressured washed to clear mud off the bike - he uses marine grade grease to help deal with the continual exposure to high pressure water.

Rgds, D.

 

[289c]

Be careful how deep you get. I had a family member with an L4400 that developed a horrible transmission leak at 125 hours. It turned out he had been digging gravel out of a stream and gotten water in the torque tube. This rusted the 4wd shaft to the seal when the tractor set for a week or so after. When he ran it next it dumped all the oil out of the transmission within a few minutes. This is an extreme case but it goes to show.

 

[paulharvey]

looks like a prime place for some rough broken concrete ruble. Maybe call around and see if you can get some old sidewalk and curb debris, as it wont wash away like gravel. The water should still flow through the voids in the ruble or over it, and you end up with a shallow ford.

 

[Pharm]

The water in the picture I took is about 2 to 3 times higher than when I cross it. I took it after a good rain. I'm going to buy a load of larger rock (around 9 in) and dump it at the crossing. All these stories of possible problems got me skerd.

I'll try to post some before and after pictures whenever I get it done.

Cheers!

 

[oosik]

Pharm,
IMO - you are going about this in the correct manner. Large rock - as you indicated - will do these things for you---- provide a crossing point that allows the creek water to pass and keep the tractor out of deep water and be a point that is unlikely to wash out.

I was going to build a "road" across a really small valley on my property. I contacted Dept of Nat Resources and if I were to proceed it would have entailed a truck load of paperwork and a 6-8 month study on their part. It just so happened this small valley was a drainage swale between the two lakes on my property!!! I'm just going to wait a couple more years and then just do it.

 

[CalG]

What ever you do, DON't get your tractor wet!

Look what happened to these guys

Komatsu D155 W bulldozer in action - YouTube


;-)

 

[RaydaKub]

What ever you do, DON't get your tractor wet!

Look what happened to these guys

Komatsu D155 W bulldozer in action - YouTube

;-)

Wow, how did that thing keep running?

 

[ovrszd]

I would be more concerned about going over the vent tubes on the differentials. A warm differential will let in water easier than a seal. 4 wheelers usually relocate the vent tubes to avoid this. Water in the pumpkin is real bad, especially in the winter when it freezes and expands.

Well stated.

We wheel offroad a lot. Also have a creek similar to the OP's that we cross. Anytime we've experienced water in the fluids has been when stuck and buried below water level for an extended amount of time. Most vents are designed to let air out but not in. When buried for more than a couple minutes the gearbox will cool and create a vacuum. This allows the seals to be breached and suck in water. A quick dunking never causes any problems.

 

[3930dave]

A Russian tractor driver refuses to give up after his vehicle gets stuck in a river. - YouTube

A lot of these videos come out of Russia.

They have a pretty different idea of what a "road" is; either that or I think I know where all those Russian ex-submarine commanders found jobs.

I swear these guys must wear wet-suits to work.

Anybody know how to say "Git'er Done" in Russian ?

Rgds, D.

 

[ovrszd]

Just curious about why water is so damaging to a seal. I live in an area surrounded by 10,000 lakes and every weekend in the summer the landings are filled with boats going in and out of the water, all with the axles submerged and then sitting there in the water while the boat is launched or recovered. Often they have been driven hard for 200 miles from the Cities and the hot hubs get dunked in cold water. A boat trailer has pretty cheap, light bearings and seals compared to a tractor. Sure, there are Bearing Buddies but I can't recall anyone pulling out a grease gun and filling the hubs after leaving the water. How come I don't see the sides of the highways littered with boat trailers missing wheels? Sure, it happens once in awhile but usually seen on a rusty, 30 year old trailer that looks like it has never been serviced. Not saying everyone who says not to do it is wrong, just wondering why I don't see more casualties.

Water itself is not damaging. Even muddy water isn't damaging on it's own. The concern is if there's atmostpheric pressure changes that might cause the gearbox to create a vacuumn.

As for boats. The "Bearing Buddy" system uses a tension spring in the cap. When you pump in grease you compress that spring which keeps positive pressure in the hub assembly. To know when to add more grease you simply look at the zerk plate and make sure it's compressing the spring and is out toward the end of the cap assembly. So even though the hub might be hot when dunked in cold water, it still does not create a vacuumn because of that spring action. Great design. Also can be added to any bearing hub assembly with the right cap diameter.

Only thing wrong with them is I didn't invent them....

 

[two_bit_score]

A Russian tractor driver refuses to give up after his vehicle gets stuck in a river. - YouTube

A lot of these videos come out of Russia.

They have a pretty different idea of what a "road" is; either that or I think I know where all those Russian ex-submarine commanders found jobs.

I swear these guys must wear wet-suits to work.

Anybody know how to say "Git'er Done" in Russian ?

Rgds, D.

Watching that video I sure was "pulling" for him to climb out of the river. :laughing:

 

[3930dave]

Water itself is not damaging. Even muddy water isn't damaging on it's own. The concern is if there's atmostpheric pressure changes that might cause the gearbox to create a vacuumn.

As for boats. The "Bearing Buddy" system uses a tension spring in the cap. When you pump in grease you compress that spring which keeps positive pressure in the hub assembly. To know when to add more grease you simply look at the zerk plate and make sure it's compressing the spring and is out toward the end of the cap assembly. So even though the hub might be hot when dunked in cold water, it still does not create a vacuumn because of that spring action. Great design. Also can be added to any bearing hub assembly with the right cap diameter.

Only thing wrong with them is I didn't invent them....

My issue with Bearing Buddy is operator error. A basic seal for a wheel bearing can't deal with much pressure from the grease side. When I got my new to me (but pretty old) travel trailer with bearing buddy installed, 3 out of 4 brake assemblies had grease pumped past the seal, and into the brake area. The worst one had about 1/2 a tube worth of grease in the brake assembly - brakes last a very long time like that, but they don't dissipate much energy !

I don't own a boat trailer, but I'd expect/hope they have better bearing seal than a basic road only trailer - still, it's worth keeping in mind not to over-grease with a bearing buddy, at least on axles with brakes.

Rgds, D.

 

[3930dave]

Watching that video I sure was "pulling" for him to climb out of the river. :laughing:

I've seen other vids of off-road trucks over there, even more submerged, but still being driven successfully. :confused2:

The ditches I've put tractors through are desert-like in comparison. The only time I want to see that much water is when I'm in a boat !

Rgds, D.

 

[pat32rf]

Just check your fluids in the front axle. If it has taken in water it will be milky. Dump it into a pot and heat it up to drive off the water, then keep an eye on it so you can judge what you can get away with. We are talking grease here right, not tranny fluid....

 

[OldMcDonald]

I agree with duroc. Work out your cost (say per year) of an extra 20mins travelling against a guesstimate of major problems in 10 years' time. Also annual cost of the longer trip against replacing the rocks every year. I am guessing that you just have to find the extra 20mins to save a lot of hassle in the future.

 

[Sysop]