Flail Mower Let's talk flail mowers

[foggy1111]

I've "lusted" over a new flail mower for a long time. It always seems to be just off the top of my list of "needs"......and I have a good Bush Hog Rotary Cutter. That Woodmax 78H kinda tears at me and my resistance is caving more everyday.

Question to those of you with a 30 PTO HP tractor and Flail mower experience......Is 30 PTO HP enough for the WM 78H? It would cover my 66" width but I fear I am at the edge on the HP needs. I would keep my 60" Rotary for heavy brush and use the Flail mainly for grassy trails and food plots (clover and rye / oats)???

I've been back and forth on Hammers vs Knives.....but lately seem to be in the Knives camp (as I think I'd get a better mulch). Decisions / decisions.

Being able to reach to the right an extra foot or so would make my cab happy on my brushy trails and around my buildings......and the finely chopped mulch would sure be good for my soils.

OH.....and, how reliable and bullet-proof is that hydraulic side shift on these Woodmax flails. I've not read of problems. Nice feature for my purposes.

Thanks for any inputs.....I've been reading this thread for a loong time.

 

[ronjhall]

My 22hp pto tractor does well with Y blades and FM62H. It also works ok with hammer blades. But I can tell the difference. I think Woodmaxx is conservative on their HP ratings.

 

[lostcreekranch]

Which flail manufactures offer a helical rotor.

I upgraded my planer and jointer, in my woodworking shop to helical heads and they really give a nice finish.

Still anxiously awaiting an answer from Eagleview? Description as "red mower" and "orange mower" don't tell us much?

Straight rotor in red mower, helical rotor in orange mower .

View attachment 612853 View attachment 612854

 

[bruceha2000]

I've "lusted" over a new flail mower for a long time. It always seems to be just off the top of my list of "needs"......and I have a good Bush Hog Rotary Cutter. That Woodmax 78H kinda tears at me and my resistance is caving more everyday.

Question to those of you with a 30 PTO HP tractor and Flail mower experience......Is 30 PTO HP enough for the WM 78H? It would cover my 66" width but I fear I am at the edge on the HP needs. I would keep my 60" Rotary for heavy brush and use the Flail mainly for grassy trails and food plots (clover and rye / oats)???

I've been back and forth on Hammers vs Knives.....but lately seem to be in the Knives camp (as I think I'd get a better mulch). Decisions / decisions.

Being able to reach to the right an extra foot or so would make my cab happy on my brushy trails and around my buildings......and the finely chopped mulch would sure be good for my soils.

OH.....and, how reliable and bullet-proof is that hydraulic side shift on these Woodmax flails. I've not read of problems. Nice feature for my purposes.

Thanks for any inputs.....I've been reading this thread for a loong time.

I don't have 30 HP PTO so maybe I shouldn't answer (since I don't fit the requirements) but I will anyway
I think you will be fine being at the low end of PTO requirements (but you are still IN the range!) given the description of what you will be cutting. You would be using the machine at the low end of its capabilities. I am ASSUMING you plan to maintain the areas before they get quite high or woody plants have a chance to take hold. I would use the hog to create any new trails though.

Since you have been reading, you know I was cutting stuff up to and over 5' tall and the tall stuff had stalks about 3/8". My 25 HP PTO is near the low end for the 62H (20-45) and while I was going slow so the flail had time to beat up on the stuff as I passed over it, I don't feel that I was taxing the tractor at all. It chopped everything to a few inches long. I expect it will be finer when I next mow. IF I had a hog and the flail, I probably would have beat it down with the hog first. I don't plan to let it get that high next year, I didn't have everything I needed to cut earlier this year.

I can't tell you about the longevity of the side shift. I will say that there are 2 bolts that hold the rear "inspection" flap down which I replaced with clevis pins. If something were to get stuck in the cutters out in the field, I'd rather not have to break out 2 wrenches to open the flap for easy access/cleaning out.

 

[foggy1111]

I don't have 30 HP PTO so maybe I shouldn't answer (since I don't fit the requirements) but I will anyway
I think you will be fine being at the low end of PTO requirements (but you are still IN the range!) given the description of what you will be cutting. You would be using the machine at the low end of its capabilities. I am ASSUMING you plan to maintain the areas before they get quite high or woody plants have a chance to take hold. I would use the hog to create any new trails though.

Since you have been reading, you know I was cutting stuff up to and over 5' tall and the tall stuff had stalks about 3/8". My 25 HP PTO is near the low end for the 62H (20-45) and while I was going slow so the flail had time to beat up on the stuff as I passed over it, I don't feel that I was taxing the tractor at all. It chopped everything to a few inches long. I expect it will be finer when I next mow. IF I had a hog and the flail, I probably would have beat it down with the hog first. I don't plan to let it get that high next year, I didn't have everything I needed to cut earlier this year.

I can't tell you about the longevity of the side shift. I will say that there are 2 bolts that hold the rear "inspection" flap down which I replaced with clevis pins. If something were to get stuck in the cutters out in the field, I'd rather not have to break out 2 wrenches to open the flap for easy access/cleaning out.

Thanks to you and Ron for the quick responses. You both are confirming what I anticipate for my tractor ability with this mower. I think it will work perfectly. I'm pretty sure I'm going to buy one.....just not sure I should do it this year. (Were building a 2nd home in AZ right now......and this may push my wife over the edge. Grin .

I like that idea of the QD pins on the rear hood. Makes sense. Will try that too!

Thanks again for the responses!!!

 

[bruceha2000]

I'm surprised that WM doesn't put clevis pins there. I don't know the cost difference between 1 pin and a hairclip vs 1 bolt, 2 washers and a nylon insert nut but since the mower comes with them installed, using clevis pins would cut their assembly time by a little bit.

Also note that there are some differences in the manual from "reality" (at least on the 62H). For instance there is a picture pointing to a bolt that you are supposed to remove before you can adjust the cutting height. Must be another one of those "engineering changes" between the '18s and the '19s. There is no bolt there and the skids are attached to the same plate as the roller so you can not adjust them separately, 2 bolts above the skids per side. And you need a fair number more wrench sizes than what they say to get the mower set up. IIRC the 2 they mentioned are needed to put the gear oil in, totally different sizes to mount the arch and to take the metal crate apart so you can get the mower out. Also, there is no need to remove the hoses and route them through the holes as described. There is a long slot now and the hoses are already routed through it; even if they weren't you could still do it without removing the banjo fitting ends from the machine.

You are going to need another tractor and all the implements for the AZ house, what is one more flail?

 

[Molalla1]

Thanks to you and Ron for the quick responses. You both are confirming what I anticipate for my tractor ability with this mower. I think it will work perfectly. I'm pretty sure I'm going to buy one.....just not sure I should do it this year. (Were building a 2nd home in AZ right now......and this may push my wife over the edge. Grin .

I like that idea of the QD pins on the rear hood. Makes sense. Will try that too!

Thanks again for the responses!!!

Do it . . . . .

 

[foggy1111]

^ You guys are too much. Lots going on in my life right now......and while I need to do this.....I may lack the time to even get it out of the crate and set up this season. Been moving box blinds and doing allot of re-arranging after logging my land 2 1/2 years ago. Really shaping up now.....but it's been a task. Gonna spend two weeks in OZ next month.....and the summer is growing short. I suppose I'll pay a higher price in spring.....but I may as well table it until then. Just did the new tractor last summer.....and the Mrs was wondering about my sanity.....now the new home......and other toys (I'm going to get a Jeep Wrangler - not a tractor - for the desert).......not sure I want to tip her over the edge. FORE! (again....thanks for all the advice. The anticipation of this new mower is a good thing.).

 

[bruceha2000]

Does your tractor have the rear remotes and valves to directly attach the flail? If so set-up isn't hard at all. If you need to add hydraulic controls that will add a fair bit of time.

 

[ronjhall]

Forgot to address the slide issue. So far mine is working good. But It moves very well in right to left operation. Moving left to right (rod end) it requires that fail mower be on the ground. I have never checked pressure on the valve I have slide hooked too. It has its own pressure setting. Last time I checked my other valves pressure is at 2000 psi. I have 3 valves on my tractor besides FEL.

 

[foggy1111]

Does your tractor have the rear remotes and valves to directly attach the flail? If so set-up isn't hard at all. If you need to add hydraulic controls that will add a fair bit of time.

Yep. I bought two sets of rear remotes. One gets regular use by my hydraulic top link. I use both when running my stump grinder. Already got the quick connect couplers ready to attach to the Woodmax unit. I really like the looks of their side shift.....and can see that being of enormous value to my situation.

 

[leonz]

Forgot to address the slide issue. So far mine is working good. But It moves very well in right to left operation. Moving left to right (rod end) it requires that fail mower be on the ground. I have never checked pressure on the valve I have slide hooked too. It has its own pressure setting. Last time I checked my other valves pressure is at 2000 psi. I have 3 valves on my tractor besides FEL.

==========================================================================================================

Good Morning Ron,


The flail mower will move slightly faster when retracting the cylinder due to the rod end of the cylinder requiring less oil to move the mower to the left to center it
this would occur when it is on the ground or in the raised position. When the flail mower is on the ground the hydraulic system will encounter slightly more resistance.

It is entirely possible that your relief valve my have some debris stuck in the valve or it may need to be replaced but that is best determined by using a
hydraulic flow tester.

If your dealer has a hydraulic repair shop as part of the facility they should also have a hydraulic flow tester, a hydraulic test bench and a hydraulic cylinder rebuilding machine.

 

[bruceha2000]

Forgot to address the slide issue. So far mine is working good. But It moves very well in right to left operation. Moving left to right (rod end) it requires that fail mower be on the ground. I have never checked pressure on the valve I have slide hooked too. It has its own pressure setting. Last time I checked my other valves pressure is at 2000 psi. I have 3 valves on my tractor besides FEL.

That seems odd, I would think dragging the mower skids sideways on the ground would create a lot of friction one wouldn't have with the mower up even just a bit.

Yep. I bought two sets of rear remotes. One gets regular use by my hydraulic top link. I use both when running my stump grinder. Already got the quick connect couplers ready to attach to the Woodmax unit. I really like the looks of their side shift.....and can see that being of enormous value to my situation.

Then you are all set! Have you checked that the female fittings are the same size as the "industry standard" male thread ends WM has on the mower? I needed adapters to reduce to the size of the Gates connectors on my Mahindra.

 

[ronjhall]

That seems odd, I would think dragging the mower skids sideways on the ground would create a lot of friction one wouldn't have with the mower up even just a bit.

I think it's the weight of the mower hanging on the slide bars. As soon as I put mower on ground it moves either direction. When lowered Mower is setting on rear roller not skid plates. Cylinder force is almost 1/2 the force when shifting from rod end of cylinder.

 

[bruceha2000]

Makes sense now! Thanks for the explanation.

 

[bruceha2000]

Got around to testing the slide function of the WoodMaxx 62H today now that I no longer have a leaking hydraulic adapter. It doesn't want to do it on the ground but is happy to go both ways at any elevation off the ground. Seems pretty fast both directions. This was using the curl/dump valves from the loader, worked fine. Slid all the way left it looks like it will cut at about the outside edge of the left tire (turns out the tractor is 5.5 feet wide, sure wish I had the PTO power to run the 78H) and all the way right will be a few inches to the right of the right rear tire. If I'm careful, that should get me pretty close to the fence line.

BUT I find I have a new problem. I think the only way I'm going to get the mower off the quick hitch is to create a level platform just below the mower at full height. As I lower the flail, the quick hitch runs into the top link bracket. Too much friction to let the QH drop even though there is no tension at all on the top pin. I guess the other idea is to get one of those extender things. In either case, I still needed the replacement top hook because I couldn't use the rake with the OEM one on the HF QH. Of course I haven't yet tried the rake on the QH, could be I'll find yet another problem.

 

[prof fate]

I was torn between the bestco and woodmaxx.

I went with woodmaxx for 2 main reasons - one being the grease maintenance - bestco is 25 hours and woodmaxx 250. Yes, 10 TIMES the time between greasings - tells me they're sealed bearings or much more well sealed. Having worked with dirt bikes and quads I can tell you sealed bearings are easily 10 times longer lasting. Second was the belt tension arrangement - to tension belts on the woodmaxx, well, it's automatic for the most part. the bestco..manual and you move teh ENTIRE gearbox/shaft assembly to do so. Awkward to say the least.

The door on the back...I opened to see the difference it makes - much rougher cut as the suction is considerably less, BUT it's tossed out much longer grass pieces - which I like as I'll be able to use it to gut hay to bale.

The other big question was hammers or knives...I ordered knives as grass is my main thing needing cut. Woodmaxx shipped it with hammers...so I mowed some with them and woodmaxx sent knives so I put them on and mowed some more.

The hammers have more mass, are noisier, shred grass MUCH finer...not sure I can tell much other difference, other htan when cutting tall grass the finer shreds fall to the ground where the knives cuttings sit on top and turn brown..waiting to see if this will kill the pasture grass or not.

Mowing speed is about the same as a brush hog - 6' hog and 78" flail both on a kioti CK3510HST (30 pto hp).

YOu cannot mow in reverse with a flail where you can with a brush hog. the hog is 8' long more or less, the flail 3' perhaps. Weight is similar (very heavy!)

I got the hydraulic offset flail which you can't get a BH like that - handy for under fences and tree limbs.

Can it work as a finish mower? Yes..but it's not as good as a finish mower.

And you'll find with the big roller at the back it can leave oddly un-cut patches when the ground is uneven.

 

[bruceha2000]

Interesting, I would have GUESSED that the hammers would leave larger pieces of stuff.

 

[JWR]

I do not think it will be satisfactory for cutting hay to bale at all. Never heard of anyone using a flail mower in that role. Others with experience in that area will comment of course.

Yes, you can cut in reverse with many flail mowers. I certainly do with my Alamo SHD-88. My knives are double sided and would cut either way if rotation got reversed (which it does not for me), but they are going so fast it makes little difference if you are going forwards or backwards. In reverse the only real hindrance is that the roller is rolling down the grass and only what springs up enough after being rolled over will get cut.

The hammer style knives are NOT double sided and mainly aimed at cutting heavier material. I can't think why they cut smoother for you than the Y-shaped thinner knives. POSSIBLY because the hammer style is flat across left-right while the Y-shaped ones are not but this still doesn't add up. Is it possible that the knife mounting holders are spaced differently for hammers than for thin knives? That would seem logical since the hammers are probably wider than the Y-knives. In fact, maybe that is why the hammers give you a smoother cut?

 

[bruceha2000]

I don't think they are spaced differently. I'm pretty sure I could buy a set of hammers and swap them with the knives with no other modifications. I can see how the long horizontal blade would cut differently than the angled knives. But it would seem the knives would have more cutting surface along a vertical plane and thus have more opportunity to hit already cut material as it passes up over the drum. The WoodMaxx has 3 knives per station, 2 angled out and a straight one between them.