Halftrack
Platinum Member
Check for play in the gear box (and oil) and the condition of the bearing and gear box seals. Y cutters are 2 piece per station and T are one piece, Y are for heavier material and brush.
Flail Mower Let's talk flail mowers
- Thread starter TNhobbyfarmer
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Fallon
Super Member
I paid $100 for mine, the same or nearly same model. Dumped $400 into new PTO shaft, belts & knives. Recently $75 or so for new bearings. Not to mention several full weekends of work repairing a damaged hood.
I'd do it all over again in a heartbeat if I had it to over again.
Check bearings, gearbox & for collisions between knives & hood. Busted gearbox would be the worst, most others would just be some work.
I'm possibly looking for another new flail, but didn't & wouldn't sell my old one. It's beatup & in the end of its life but still kicking ***. Want a beefier brush flail & a spare mower because the 719 is so old & beat.
FreedomFamilyFarms
Silver Member
Decision time. Brought home a Kubota B2710 this weekend (27 HP, 20 @ PTO). 270 hours on it, should last me a long time. I have a 1000' gravel driveway that is in desperate need of brush clearing along 1 side of it that is about 600' long. Most of it is under 1" some larger. Once I have it under control I'll mow it regularly (several times a year) to keep the brush back. The urgency now is to make way for me to pile snow with a back blade along that side of the drive.
I read through half of this thread a year or so ago, and most of the rest of it yesterday, last night, and this morning (taking appropriate bathroom and nutrition breaks). What a thread!
I'm down to 3 options:
Option A: Rotary mower. Simple, cheap, common, loud, dangerous. $1299 for a new 5' Land Pride I can pick up today if I want to.
Option B: Caroni 47" F-type blade. Seems this mower will be great once the mess is tamed, but might be underrated for the brush on the first pass. I don't love that this one has rather expensive metric replacement parts and does not have a rear trash door. I like that it is not made in China. Delivered in 1-2 weeks
Option C: Woodmaxx flail (FM62). 59" cut width (a little long for the 5HP per foot of flail), has hammer knives for brush and rear trash door for cutting heavy/messy stuff. I can switch to Y type cutters later once this place is under control if I want a finer cut. I don't love that its made in China but my calls to Woodmaxx and their overall reputation on TBN is positive. The smallest Woodmaxx is $300 cheaper, but has a smaller roller, lighter steel, and no trash door (floppy rubber guard instead). These seem designed for the smallest of the sub-compacts. They have a green one in stock that I can have delivered in 2 weeks. Orange won't be in until next spring...
I'd like to get this order placed today as we just got our first dusting of snow and I NEED to mow the lane. I could always just rent a rotary for a day and get it done, but what fun is that?
Hoping Leonz is watching this morning...
I read through half of this thread a year or so ago, and most of the rest of it yesterday, last night, and this morning (taking appropriate bathroom and nutrition breaks). What a thread!
I'm down to 3 options:
Option A: Rotary mower. Simple, cheap, common, loud, dangerous. $1299 for a new 5' Land Pride I can pick up today if I want to.
Option B: Caroni 47" F-type blade. Seems this mower will be great once the mess is tamed, but might be underrated for the brush on the first pass. I don't love that this one has rather expensive metric replacement parts and does not have a rear trash door. I like that it is not made in China. Delivered in 1-2 weeks
Option C: Woodmaxx flail (FM62). 59" cut width (a little long for the 5HP per foot of flail), has hammer knives for brush and rear trash door for cutting heavy/messy stuff. I can switch to Y type cutters later once this place is under control if I want a finer cut. I don't love that its made in China but my calls to Woodmaxx and their overall reputation on TBN is positive. The smallest Woodmaxx is $300 cheaper, but has a smaller roller, lighter steel, and no trash door (floppy rubber guard instead). These seem designed for the smallest of the sub-compacts. They have a green one in stock that I can have delivered in 2 weeks. Orange won't be in until next spring...
I'd like to get this order placed today as we just got our first dusting of snow and I NEED to mow the lane. I could always just rent a rotary for a day and get it done, but what fun is that?
Hoping Leonz is watching this morning...
Dan in MN
Bronze Member
If you're heading into winter and don't want to invest heavily right now I'd just craigslist (or rent) a bush hog to hit it now, take your time figuring out exactly what you want, and invest closer to spring..
FreedomFamilyFarms
Silver Member
I'm ready to buy, just want to be sure I get the right gear. I was dead set on a Caroni before, but the discussion about the B vs F type rotor made me re-think my needs. I have a ZTR for finish mowing and my wife likes to use it so that's the end of that discussion :-D
F type rotor seems a little wimpy for heavier brush. Hammers look to be more up my alley. Then again, seems like folks do just fine on the F type rotor going slow. IslandTractor has the B type rotor and has many posts about the clevis breaking on rocks with options for replacing with less expensive stuff than the Caroni replacements from AgriSupply. F type has no Clevis, so possibly a less expensive replacement if you only need the knife and a bolt...
Interestingly enough, the F type is exactly double the number of knives as the A type so it would seem you could simply remove half of the flails to have the mower function as an A type...
F type rotor seems a little wimpy for heavier brush. Hammers look to be more up my alley. Then again, seems like folks do just fine on the F type rotor going slow. IslandTractor has the B type rotor and has many posts about the clevis breaking on rocks with options for replacing with less expensive stuff than the Caroni replacements from AgriSupply. F type has no Clevis, so possibly a less expensive replacement if you only need the knife and a bolt...
Interestingly enough, the F type is exactly double the number of knives as the A type so it would seem you could simply remove half of the flails to have the mower function as an A type...
Fallon
Super Member
Viiiupndhead I'm in not do different of a situation with a bigger machine.
Just sold my 5' rotary with my old L3200 & getting the L4060 any day now. My 7' ancient 917 is just getting a bit old & beat to rely on. More so as I'm spinning up a side gig doing tractor work.
I'm seriously debating between a WoodMaxx flail with hammers or a 6' medium duty rotary as a backup mower & rougher mower.
As for going big... if you have a HST, if you can lift it, you can spin it. Check the lift rating on your 3pt vs the weight of the flail. You may have to go really slow or do half passes with the big flail (may or may not have the right gear on a gear shift, not an issue with a HST), but you can lift the impliment, you can spin it.
I'm a fan of going big. I ran that 7' 917 behind my 5' wide L3200. I had to go slower than with my 5' rotary, but covered the same or more ground per hour & put less abuse on my body & machine while going slower.
I'd recommend wither renting a rotary for the first pass, or get the WoodMaxx with hammers & take it really slow on the bigger stuff.
I love my flail & the biggest Cat1 WoodMaxx is about the same price as a medium duty 6' land pride rotary. My only concern & reason to look at the rotary is simplicity & associated durability mowing 1.5" stuff. I think I'm leaning towards waiting until the spring & getting the biggest Cat1 WoodMaxx with hammers & the hydraulic offset rather than getting the rotary now & rolling it in with the tractor financing.
Just sold my 5' rotary with my old L3200 & getting the L4060 any day now. My 7' ancient 917 is just getting a bit old & beat to rely on. More so as I'm spinning up a side gig doing tractor work.
I'm seriously debating between a WoodMaxx flail with hammers or a 6' medium duty rotary as a backup mower & rougher mower.
As for going big... if you have a HST, if you can lift it, you can spin it. Check the lift rating on your 3pt vs the weight of the flail. You may have to go really slow or do half passes with the big flail (may or may not have the right gear on a gear shift, not an issue with a HST), but you can lift the impliment, you can spin it.
I'm a fan of going big. I ran that 7' 917 behind my 5' wide L3200. I had to go slower than with my 5' rotary, but covered the same or more ground per hour & put less abuse on my body & machine while going slower.
I'd recommend wither renting a rotary for the first pass, or get the WoodMaxx with hammers & take it really slow on the bigger stuff.
I love my flail & the biggest Cat1 WoodMaxx is about the same price as a medium duty 6' land pride rotary. My only concern & reason to look at the rotary is simplicity & associated durability mowing 1.5" stuff. I think I'm leaning towards waiting until the spring & getting the biggest Cat1 WoodMaxx with hammers & the hydraulic offset rather than getting the rotary now & rolling it in with the tractor financing.
Fallon
Super Member
As much as I hate to say it, you might be better off with a rotary. If you have a nice ZTR that you'll keep using for most mowing, a rotary will be less maintenance for occasional usage & more durable for getting er done in more gnarly material.
IslandTractor
Super Star Member
- Joined
- Sep 15, 2005
- Messages
- 16,647
- Location
- Prudence Island, RI
- Tractor
- 2007 Kioti DK40se HST, Woods BH
Viiiupndhead, if I were you, I'd look around on Craigslist for a used 48" or 60" light duty rotary (or just rent one or hire some guy with a bush hog) just to clear the bigger stuff quickly. You can then decide in the Spring if you want to sell it and consider the Caroni for routine maintenance. Frankly if you are just using it to keep the driveway clear there is little advantage to investing in a new flail. Mowing 2000 feet of driveway shoulder once with the rotary bush hog is such a small task that you really don't need an extra mower to do it if you already have a finish mower you can use once the saplings are gone.
I've never used an F type (finish) rotor but I don't think it would be ideal for taking out 1" saplings.
I've never used an F type (finish) rotor but I don't think it would be ideal for taking out 1" saplings.
powerscol
Veteran Member
Be careful how you count. Some manufactures count the number of blades each, so rotor might have 20 stations and 20 hammers, or 40 Y blades (2 blade sections per station), or 60 3 part Y blades (3 blade sections per station) depending on how they count. Maschio is that way - number of mounting stations is the same for the different blade types available. Double check with your dealer.
FreedomFamilyFarms
Silver Member
IslandTractor: The driveway is just the beginning... I'm on 17 acres. 10 is wooded, the other 7ish is in various states of growth. About 5 acres have been mowed with a Toro Z Master commercial that the previous owner sold to me with the property. I have no intention to keep up that much lawn next season. The flail will be used on the driveway, as well as keeping the woodies down on the 7 acres that I'm still figuring out. I'm also going to keep a couple trails through the woods cleared. The previous owner kept them up until a couple years ago so the growth is still flail manageable albeit at a slow speed.
Long term, I hope to work the flail out of a job with trees and livestock. At this rate, I expect that will take me at least a decade. I need a mower that is safe around the family and doesn't raise my blood pressure when I run it ;-)
I just ordered at Woodmaxx 62" flail with the duckfoot blades (FM-62H). Should be here in a couple weeks. I don't have rear remotes on my tractor but speaking to Will at Woodmaxx we determined that I can "borrow" hydro from the loader and move the offset with it. The offset will stay in that position until I hook up the hydro again and move it back. I like the idea that I can move it right while working on the driveway keeping me out of the brush and centering it in the woods so I can keep the trail as narrow as the mower.
I've spoken to AgriSupply, Woodmaxx, Uwe at etractorimplements (Victory branded Flails), and Tractortoolsdirect today. If Uwe had a EFGC-135 in stock I probably would have purchased it just because it's half what I paid for the Woodmaxx. He, like many other mower importers is nearly out of stock for this season. Woodmaxx only had 2 of this model and 1 of the same size without the hydro left for the year. Agrisupply is down to 1 59" Caroni until their next shipment. The DelMorino brand that Tractortoolsdirect seems like a great option and they're located in my home town (Terre Haute) but there's no offset available and they don't have a hammer style flail right now (considering them next year). They used to carry Caroni but it seems they couldn't get the stock they needed when they needed it so they switched to DelMorino. One bit of interesting information they gave me is the Caroni's that ASC has are lighter steel than the DelMorino's.
I decided to do some quick calculations on pounds per inch of cutting length and price per pound of steel in the mower. Results below:
Caroni 59" TL1500FSC: 485 pounds, 59", $2000 (shipped) = 8.2 pounds per cutting inch at $4.12 per pound of mower
Woodmaxx 62" FM-62 (non-hydro for apples to apples comparison): 641#, 62", $2249 (shipped) = 10.3 pounds per cutting inch at $3.50 per pound of mower
DelMorino 52": 540 pounds, 52", $2700 (shipped) = 10.38 pounds per cutting inch at $5.00 per pound of mower
The Caroni with F type knives has 88 knives or 44 pairs. The Woodmaxx with hammers has 18 hammers. More quick math:
Caroni: 20 HP over 44 pairs = 0.45 HP per flail pair
Woodmaxx: 20 HP over 18 hammers = 1.1 HP per hammer
I'm sure I could do some force calculations with the weight of each hammer or pair and the length of cutting surface but I'm tired and already made my decision. Suffice it to say I believe I'll have a lot more force to chop up the heavier brush with the Woodmaxx than with the Caroni. Now, if I wanted to cut grass the Caroni would be the absolute PERFECT machine for the job. Makes sense when you think about the companies > Caroni builds mowers finish, flail, etc > Woodmaxx builds chippers and got into the flail mower business.
Hope to be posting pictures of my freshly cut driveway before the snow decides to stay!
Long term, I hope to work the flail out of a job with trees and livestock. At this rate, I expect that will take me at least a decade. I need a mower that is safe around the family and doesn't raise my blood pressure when I run it ;-)
I just ordered at Woodmaxx 62" flail with the duckfoot blades (FM-62H). Should be here in a couple weeks. I don't have rear remotes on my tractor but speaking to Will at Woodmaxx we determined that I can "borrow" hydro from the loader and move the offset with it. The offset will stay in that position until I hook up the hydro again and move it back. I like the idea that I can move it right while working on the driveway keeping me out of the brush and centering it in the woods so I can keep the trail as narrow as the mower.
I've spoken to AgriSupply, Woodmaxx, Uwe at etractorimplements (Victory branded Flails), and Tractortoolsdirect today. If Uwe had a EFGC-135 in stock I probably would have purchased it just because it's half what I paid for the Woodmaxx. He, like many other mower importers is nearly out of stock for this season. Woodmaxx only had 2 of this model and 1 of the same size without the hydro left for the year. Agrisupply is down to 1 59" Caroni until their next shipment. The DelMorino brand that Tractortoolsdirect seems like a great option and they're located in my home town (Terre Haute) but there's no offset available and they don't have a hammer style flail right now (considering them next year). They used to carry Caroni but it seems they couldn't get the stock they needed when they needed it so they switched to DelMorino. One bit of interesting information they gave me is the Caroni's that ASC has are lighter steel than the DelMorino's.
I decided to do some quick calculations on pounds per inch of cutting length and price per pound of steel in the mower. Results below:
Caroni 59" TL1500FSC: 485 pounds, 59", $2000 (shipped) = 8.2 pounds per cutting inch at $4.12 per pound of mower
Woodmaxx 62" FM-62 (non-hydro for apples to apples comparison): 641#, 62", $2249 (shipped) = 10.3 pounds per cutting inch at $3.50 per pound of mower
DelMorino 52": 540 pounds, 52", $2700 (shipped) = 10.38 pounds per cutting inch at $5.00 per pound of mower
The Caroni with F type knives has 88 knives or 44 pairs. The Woodmaxx with hammers has 18 hammers. More quick math:
Caroni: 20 HP over 44 pairs = 0.45 HP per flail pair
Woodmaxx: 20 HP over 18 hammers = 1.1 HP per hammer
I'm sure I could do some force calculations with the weight of each hammer or pair and the length of cutting surface but I'm tired and already made my decision. Suffice it to say I believe I'll have a lot more force to chop up the heavier brush with the Woodmaxx than with the Caroni. Now, if I wanted to cut grass the Caroni would be the absolute PERFECT machine for the job. Makes sense when you think about the companies > Caroni builds mowers finish, flail, etc > Woodmaxx builds chippers and got into the flail mower business.
Hope to be posting pictures of my freshly cut driveway before the snow decides to stay!
IslandTractor
Super Star Member
- Joined
- Sep 15, 2005
- Messages
- 16,647
- Location
- Prudence Island, RI
- Tractor
- 2007 Kioti DK40se HST, Woods BH
Good luck. Sounds like a well thought out plan and appropriate compromise.
You will find that a sub 30hp tractor with four+ foot flail is going to give you LOTS of seat time if you try to cut 17 acres even once a year. Been there done that. (That is why I now have a 40hp even though I cut only about 10 acres). Figure about an acre or a bit more per hour with your rig. You might still want to subcontract out some of the rough cut stuff so you don't wear yourself out. A guy with a 100hp utility tractor and seven or eight foot mower would get stuff done probably five or more times faster.
You will find that a sub 30hp tractor with four+ foot flail is going to give you LOTS of seat time if you try to cut 17 acres even once a year. Been there done that. (That is why I now have a 40hp even though I cut only about 10 acres). Figure about an acre or a bit more per hour with your rig. You might still want to subcontract out some of the rough cut stuff so you don't wear yourself out. A guy with a 100hp utility tractor and seven or eight foot mower would get stuff done probably five or more times faster.
Fallon
Super Member
My 32hp L3200 could only pull an acre an hour on smooth open field, less HP, smaller wheelbase & a smaller mower will definitely be slower. Hopefully you like seat time ;-)
You can steal you loader lift circuit for hydraulic offset easily. Curl would probably work too as it should be a double acting cylinder (read up on regen, big problem for using the curl circuit to move a plow with a pair of single acting cylinders).
I'm to lazy to have ever taken my loader off, but I hear it was an easy 5 minute job. I do often move the loader when mowing to clear fences, lower my center of gravity,push over brush or keep the sun out of my eyes. Wouldn't be possible with the lift circuit stolen for offset. Taking the loader off would eliminate some of those benefits or clearance issues. With a big mower on a small tractor you may be lacking on front traction & steering. Front ballast would cure that & the loader is the easiest ballast there is. And if it's not enough, put the bucket on. And if that's not enough fill the bucket with a scoop of something heavy & convenient. A short flail will likely present much less of an issue than a long rotary with all that leverage lifting the front.
Keep us posted on how it works out. Not to many WoodMaxx flails out there yet. I'm seriously thinking about joining that club in the spring. Hydraulic offset, trash door, seems pretty beefy & priced well. Has a lot going for it.
You can steal you loader lift circuit for hydraulic offset easily. Curl would probably work too as it should be a double acting cylinder (read up on regen, big problem for using the curl circuit to move a plow with a pair of single acting cylinders).
I'm to lazy to have ever taken my loader off, but I hear it was an easy 5 minute job. I do often move the loader when mowing to clear fences, lower my center of gravity,push over brush or keep the sun out of my eyes. Wouldn't be possible with the lift circuit stolen for offset. Taking the loader off would eliminate some of those benefits or clearance issues. With a big mower on a small tractor you may be lacking on front traction & steering. Front ballast would cure that & the loader is the easiest ballast there is. And if it's not enough, put the bucket on. And if that's not enough fill the bucket with a scoop of something heavy & convenient. A short flail will likely present much less of an issue than a long rotary with all that leverage lifting the front.
Keep us posted on how it works out. Not to many WoodMaxx flails out there yet. I'm seriously thinking about joining that club in the spring. Hydraulic offset, trash door, seems pretty beefy & priced well. Has a lot going for it.
FreedomFamilyFarms
Silver Member
Just a quick point of clarification: I have no intention to mow 17 acres. 10 of it is densely wooded, 1-2 will be lawn maintained by a beautiful brunette on a Toro ZTR. The rest I'll flail semi-annually until I can get is established in a way that minimizes maintenance with intentional perennial plantings and livestock. We'd also like to put in a pond that will consume another acre. I'm looking at a maximum of 6 acres to mow a couple times each year. It was tough not to just get a cheap rotary mower but I want to shred the vegetation so it builds soil. I figure between a new rotary vs the flail I chose it was about a $1500 upgrade to shred the vegetation (plus all of the other benefits of a flail mower and citizenship in the Flail Mower Nation).
Regarding the loader; I'll just "borrow" the loader valve to set the offset. Might even come up with something that doesn't use the tractor hydraulics. Just need to set the offset and unhook the lines. No need to keep the plumbing attached until I want to change the offset again (think jumper cables). I was set on rear remotes before I bought this tractor but the good folks on this site talked me out of a 3 point splitter so no immediate need for that $800 expense. Should moving the offset be more trouble than its worth my Kubota dealer is 14 miles away ;-)
Regarding the loader; I'll just "borrow" the loader valve to set the offset. Might even come up with something that doesn't use the tractor hydraulics. Just need to set the offset and unhook the lines. No need to keep the plumbing attached until I want to change the offset again (think jumper cables). I was set on rear remotes before I bought this tractor but the good folks on this site talked me out of a 3 point splitter so no immediate need for that $800 expense. Should moving the offset be more trouble than its worth my Kubota dealer is 14 miles away ;-)
IslandTractor
Super Star Member
- Joined
- Sep 15, 2005
- Messages
- 16,647
- Location
- Prudence Island, RI
- Tractor
- 2007 Kioti DK40se HST, Woods BH
Yeah, if only 5 acres then the B2710 plus Woodmaxx should be just perfect.
Regarding stealing hydraulics from the loader, you could easily use the temporary steal method. I used to do that with my CK20 which had only one set of rear remotes that was used for both backhoe and grapple which were both almost always mounted and shared the rear remotes. If I needed to switch implements it just took twenty seconds to make the switch. Just make sure to unload the hydraulics or carry a small ball peen hammer to tap the fittings and let out the pressure so you can reattach.
Regarding stealing hydraulics from the loader, you could easily use the temporary steal method. I used to do that with my CK20 which had only one set of rear remotes that was used for both backhoe and grapple which were both almost always mounted and shared the rear remotes. If I needed to switch implements it just took twenty seconds to make the switch. Just make sure to unload the hydraulics or carry a small ball peen hammer to tap the fittings and let out the pressure so you can reattach.
richardhorne
Member
Ive just mowed about 3acres with my jd3033r and a hayes 1350 (4'6") flail. Was quite flat i achieved about an acre every 45mins. Wish i had a bigger mower but didnt want to exceed tractor capacity.
Getting tonthe point i need to sharpen the knives. Any tips?
Getting tonthe point i need to sharpen the knives. Any tips?
Alien
Elite Member
I just lifted my Hayes up high and sat something under it so it wouldn't come down and lay down with an angle grinder and gave the hammers a touch up. Considering all the sticks I have cut up and a few stumps I have hit I was surprised how little the hammers needed to spruce them up.
richardhorne
Member
Mine may need a bit more tlc as the ground round here is a bit rocky. Might give that a go though
Alien
Elite Member
I actually walked my paddocks picking up rocks and throwing them in my bucket. A bit laborious but worth it.
I suppose you lost all your little yellow rubber plugs? I fitted nuts and bolts in the holes to prevent any debris from escaping. I thought rubber plugs was a bit lame.
I suppose you lost all your little yellow rubber plugs? I fitted nuts and bolts in the holes to prevent any debris from escaping. I thought rubber plugs was a bit lame.
richardhorne
Member
We are really rocky here in the avon Valley wa. Lots of granite embedded deep. Think i will do the loose stuff though when it cools back down. Ive had to set the mower higher to try and dodge some of the outcrops. Now ive mowed for the first time i am getting an idea where it is. Ive got the yellow gromits but i agree they are useless. Like the nut and bolt idea. The split pin sheared off on the rail holding the front debris guard. I ended up loosing about 4 of them. I am going to upgrade the spli pins to the largest that will fit.
Alien
Elite Member
I haven't had a problem with the split pins but thanks for the heads-up. I will take a look.
Here are some similar links:
Quick Hitches
Recommend me a quick hitch please