Flail Mower Let's talk flail mowers

[Xfaxman]

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A question I forgot to ask last night, I'm having trouble with grass wrapping up on the roller and jamming the roller with the scraper bar. My scraper is off the roller a bit, are they typically set pretty tight? I need to try something different with that (either adjusting or removing the scraper) before I go out again today, had to stop several times in an hour last night to clear it..

Are you sure that the cutters are not on backwards? A flail usually cuts the clippings so short that they could not wrap around the roller.

Pictures would help.

 

[Steave]

From the pictures you posted of the field you are cutting it looks like the knives might be mounted in the wrong direction. Cutting on the backside maybe. I know that sounds drastic but those long shoots left standing shouldn't be there. It makes sense what you said about the front holding the stalks and not letting it get cut but the front of the mower is going to be higher than the tip of the knives. Correct me here if I'm wrong about the height. That's the way my Mott is.

Your Jubilee should have enough power to run your flail as long as you are running it at PTO rpm. With the sherman transmission you have a low enough gear. You will have to go a lot slower than you would with a rotary cutter especially until you get the grass knocked down but something is surely wrong. Take that scraper off the roller like Leonze mentioned that will eliminate one of the things that may be giving you trouble. Most mowers don't have them anyway.

1. Make sure the knives have been installed correctly and in the right direction.

2. Take the scraper off the roller.

3. While sitting on smooth ground or concrete pad adjust the roller up or down to the desired
height of your cut. Do this with the 3 point hookup on the mower is vertical.

4. Cut slowly at a high rpm. All tractors are built to run at PTO rpm for hours at a time. Most
like it better than slow rpm's. My old ford likes it just a little slower than pto speed but still
very close.

Hope you don't get a bad taste about your new implement maybe it's something you and/or the crew that put it together missed somewhere. Who knows you might have the toughest grass in the world and everything else is just fine.

Wish I could offer some expert advice here but just posting my :2cents: worth.

 

[CADplans]

1. Make sure the knives have been installed correctly and in the right direction.

Heck, some of these gear boxes can be installed for reverse rotation, by flipping them over,,,
1-a) Make sure the gear box is installed correctly and in the right direction.

 

[Steave]

CADplans that's the way mine is. Either direction of the cutting rotor. I use it with the rotation same as the tractor tire. Let's not get into what direction that is called. :laughing: It may cause a lot of wasted data usage.

 

[Dan in MN]

I might be dealing with multiple issues at once... The knives are side cutters that are sharpened on both sides, can't be installed backwards. I verified the other day that the knives are rotating upward in front so rotation is correct. Started doing some tune-up (haven't had this tractor long...) and found a bunch of corrosion on one plug wire and corresponding distributor terminal, no replacements locally of course but I cleaned them up pretty well, went out to test, no change. Checked base timing and found it off about 10 degrees, fixed it, went out to test, no change. Found that the distributor points had almost no gap and set to proper .025, was getting dark so didn't go back out yet. I've never had to mess with points so no idea how much difference that could make. Verified that the mechanical advance weights move smoothly and no play in the distributor shaft. Couldn't check timing advance yet, it's been so many years since I've needed a timing light I couldn't find it and don't know that I even have one any more.. :laughing: Also ran a compression test and got 130/115/120/120 so I'm all good there. That stuff is all separate from the cutting issues as the areas I've posted pics of were gone over with the tractor at or a little above 540 ptm rpm, so even if I get the tractor running better I don't expect any difference in the actual mowing. I'll try taking the scraper off, but if the grass isn't getting mulched up it will probably just wrap up more without it...

 

[Catoosa]

The knives are side cutters that are sharpened on both sides

Are your knives straight? You may have dethatching knives on it.

 

[DieselBound]

What's the rotation on the PTO? Might be turning the flail in the opposite direction from which it's most efficient. Though, as noted, the cutters are sharp on both sides, it might be an issue of getting proper lift (proper rotation). Not sure if this has been brought up or not; also, no real knowledge on the tractor.

 

[KenB2920]

CADplans that's the way mine is. Either direction of the cutting rotor. I use it with the rotation same as the tractor tire. Let's not get into what direction that is called. :laughing: It may cause a lot of wasted data usage.

. Sooo funny and true

 

[KenB2920]

Don't claim to be an expert, as the New Holland 918H is the only flail I've ever owned or used. Both the top link and bottom arm pin connections are slotted, presumably to enable float? The slots allow the mower to rotate slightly in use. Has worked well for 16 years! Vic<img src="http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=480563"/>[ATTA<img src="http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=480565"/>

Excellent machine!!! I have a 918H and it needs to be tweaked a bit but is well worth the $400 I paid for it. New belts game in yesterday. But I use another 918H all the time and it's just a fantastic machine. This is what sold me on searching all over for one.

I'd still really like to try a Mott shd and see how is compares.

I have 3 flail mowers and all are different with different configuration.

 

[Steave]

Excellent machine!!! I have a 918H and it needs to be tweaked a bit but is well worth the $400 I paid for it. New belts game in yesterday. But I use another 918H all the time and it's just a fantastic machine. This is what sold me on searching all over for one.

I'd still really like to try a Mott shd and see how is compares.

I have 3 flail mowers and all are different with different configuration.

I like the idea of having 3 flails. I could get by with 2, a finish mower which I have (Mott 72), and I've been keeping an eye out for ford 917 or preferably a 918 and set it up for rough cut if that's possible. I've had good luck with old ford equipment so that's what I'd prefer. Of course I'm not stuck on that brand another Mott but with a rough cut setup would be fine. Is you 918 set up for rough cut and are you satisfied with it.

The Mott 72 I have has a bunch of side slicer knives, 92 stations with 184 knives. If a piece of grass gets through all that, bless its heart, I just leave it for the next time. Flail mowers have never been that popular in my area and a used one is hard to find but I'll keep waiting and looking. I can't see myself giving 1500 - 2000 new for another mower.

 

[Dan in MN]

Are your knives straight? You may have dethatching knives on it.

Standard angled side cutter pairs.

This afternoon I changed the points, condenser, cap, and rotor and no improvement. Had to buy a timing light since I have no idea where mine went...probably threw it out a few years ago since I hadn't needed one for ~20 years... Was hoping the other stuff would be the solution so I could return the light, but no such luck. Getting the total timing set made a big difference in power, but as soon as the mower loaded up the roller again it just brought the tractor to it's knees...as soon as it bogged down completely this time I shut the pto off and drove back to the garage..

Roller full of grass..

All of this came off the roller!

Underneath full of loose grass..

Cleaned out..

I took the scraper bar off for now, but I'm pretty sure that's just going to allow the roller to really build up the grass. Up till now though, the grass would build up enough between the roller and scraper to jam the roller and I think it was probably just dragging and not rolling. I also always have heavy grass wrapped around the ends with the bearings (especially the right side), to the point where the bearing gets hot from being packed tight in insulation and also friction.

The grass was a little damp tonight, do others have trouble mowing if it's wet/damp or does it usually not matter? Wishing I had just bought a Bush Hog at this point...or no tractor at all...

 

[whirly]

Leave the scraper bar off.

If you are just mowing grass then it isn't really necessary.

 

[Alien]

From the look of that last photo it looks like it is throwing forwards. The front of the mower is dirty and the back is clean. This would make the tractor work really hard if the blades were turning that way.
If the cutters were turning the same way as your wheels the roller would not get covered like it does because the grass is driven down, not up over the top and on to the roller as in this case. It also makes it easier to propel the mower/tractor through the grass. The mower pushes rather than pulls against the tractor.
That's what it looks like to me anyway.

 

[Dan in MN]

According to the documentation that's the direction it's supposed to run, but I may look to see if the gearbox is reversible and try same as tires if possible..

 

[Xfaxman]

Looks like it is not spinning fast enough.

I wonder if your tachometer is accurate? There are mechanical and electronic devices to check PTO speed .

I would try increasing the RPM to max, while listening to the mower, if it is not vibrating or the sound of the rotor doesn't change much, lower the mower and see if it cuts like it should.

 

[Alien]

According to the documentation that's the direction it's supposed to run, but I may look to see if the gearbox is reversible and try same as tires if possible..

Worth a go. It's obviously not working as is.
Mine revolves the way yours is at present but I have the hammers on mine. It creates a vacuum cleaner noise when running and leaves nothing standing at all.
Underneath it looks identical to yours except for the blades.

 

[vlcakc]

Steave: "Is you 918 set up for rough cut and are you satisfied with it?"

So far as I have been able to determine, there is only one type of cutter available for the 918H. I asked about the availability of different cutters in an earlier post and got no response. Mine does finish and rough well so long as I keep the cutters sharpened. Vic

 

[kco]

According to the documentation that's the direction it's supposed to run, but I may look to see if the gearbox is reversible and try same as tires if possible..

That's the way my mower operates too, Dan. Sorry to hear the mower is not working for your conditions. I have limited experience but wonder if hammer-type blades would work better for the long grass. I have hammer blades on my AG180 (similar to ValueLeader AG180). They work great for brush and long grass. However, I have not done a lot of cutting in wet grass. My mower vendor recommends hammer blades over the grass blades and says all his customers prefer the hammer blades. Perhaps others with experience can comment on whether hammer blades might be more effective.

 

[IslandTractor]

Rotation of rotor, blade type, and scraper are all normal. Even if PTO speed is a bit low it shouldn't result in clogging the rear roller (I mow similar height and density grass with engine set 200-400rpm below PTO speed routinely).

I've never seen long grass clogging the rear roller before so can only speculate but 1) have you tried mowing more slowly and 2) is your tractor putting out enough HP to keep the rotor cutting? Does it bog down?

Do you have access to another tractor for a test comparison? If you mow in low range do you get the same result?

I have seen similar poor mowing with small clumps of un cut areas in a field before but that was always due to either several missing blades or wet grass or mowing too fast in thick dry grass. What I experienced wasn't as bad as what is shown in photos here though and in particular there was never grass wrapping around the rear roller. I've never seen grass wrapped around a rear roller before and think somehow that is the key clue.

 

[DieselBound]

I'm hung up on the first picture of the roller. Isn't that showing grass being slung over the TOP of the scraper? How can grass get slung in this way if the drum is turning in the same direction as the tractor's wheels? If the drum is turning counter to the tractor's wheels then I could the explanation being that the tractor is flattening some grass and the flail isn't picking it up well because it's rotating into the backside of the flattened grass, onto the top of the scraper.