Flail Mower Let's talk flail mowers

[sodamo]

David- I want you to bury that idea at sea by Diamondhead please and bury it DEEP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The force on the bearings will not be equal around the complete orbit of the knives or hammers and the bearings will not last long.

Thanks Leon.
While I see your point, I do wonder. My thinking was that if balanced in opposing directions, the effect would be minimal if any. Is there a significant difference of equal pull in 2 vs 4 directions? Not being an engineer, I wouldn't know how to computer. Maybe Jack from China can get an answer?

So after reading your answer above, I decided to investigate further.
Weight of blades:
1 - Hammer = 26.6 oz
2 - Y w/ spacers = 22.2 oz
2 - Y only = 19.9 oz

That's 4.4oz difference per station, hammer vs Yw/spacers. (4 rows of 7 stations per row)
So if I had a heavier, 6.7 oz spacer they would be equal. I'm thinking I could probably get that weight making a spacer from my old, broken hammers with some trial and error.

Thoughts anyone?
BTW, wife has confirmed she likes the hammer cut better, more uniform.

Scale pics of blades:









David Sent from my iPad Air using TractorByNet

 

[leonz]

Thanks Leon.
While I see your point, I do wonder. My thinking was that if balanced in opposing directions, the effect would be minimal if any. Is there a significant difference of equal pull in 2 vs 4 directions? Not being an engineer, I wouldn't know how to computer. Maybe Jack from China can get an answer?

So after reading your answer above, I decided to investigate further.
Weight of blades:
1 - Hammer = 26.6 oz
2 - Y w/ spacers = 22.2 oz
2 - Y only = 19.9 oz

That's 4.4oz difference per station, hammer vs Yw/spacers. (4 rows of 7 stations per row)
So if I had a heavier, 6.7 oz spacer they would be equal. I'm thinking I could probably get that weight making a spacer from my old, broken hammers with some trial and error.

Thoughts anyone?
BTW, wife has confirmed she likes the hammer cut better, more uniform.

Scale pics of blades:

View attachment 384185


View attachment 384186


View attachment 384187

David Sent from my iPad Air using TractorByNet

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David-

you have to think of it in this manner;



1.Your clock has 12 hour points


2. Your flail mower has four rows of knive stations.

3. location one is located at 12 o'clock

4. location two is located at 3 o'clock

5. location three is located at 6 o'clock

6. location four is located at 9 o'clock



NOW


row one has 18 pounds of hammer knives mounted
row two has 6 points of side slicers
row three has 18 pounds of hammer knives
row four has 6 pounds of side slicers

YES I know I am getting there-bear with me

NOW we are are the point where we will bring out the buckets.

you have 4 new galvanised 12 quart buckets, you put 14 pounds of sand in two buckets.

you then put 28 pounds of sand in the other buckets.

you can safely spin the first set of buckets without losing sand as long as you spin fast enough.

you can safely spin both of the bockets with 28 pounds of sand as long as you spin fast enough to avoid spillage.

you take all four buckets and hang them on the four post/strut clothesline with equal lengths of clothesline in the back yard/lanai in your case?

Now I have you tieing the buckets with 4 foot pieces fo clothes line on to each strut with good knots-wife should be on he mainland when this is going BTW.


grab the car out of the garage and the put the rear end on Jack stands placed on on 2 by 12's and take one of the rear wheels off.

grab an old rim and put it on the axle without the tire.

get some good rope and loop it around the wheel, crosss the rope and wrap it
around the pole for the four strut clothes line until its tight.

tie a good knot connecting both ends.

Start the car and put the car in drive.

Gradually begin speeding up get your radar gun out and occasionaly stick it out the window pointing at the rear end of the car.


As you are speeding up, or as it is referred to as "spooling up" in aircraft circles the stress on the 28 pound buckets is concentrated on the base of the galvanised buckets because the THROW Weight is greater and will be rocketed off somewhere in the neighborhood and hopefully not through the plate glass doors of you home which is why you want the wife on the mainland.

IT all has to do with throw weight of each row of kives creating more stress on the flail mower rotor bearings
in total as the entire circumference of the bearing is recieiving an alternating overload
at three oclock and nine oclock AND ALL the ball bearing roller and bearing races are recieving
this overload intermittantly while the flail mower rotor is spinning attempting to reach 2,200 RPM +-.

Tim The Tool Man Taylor and Rube Goldberg would be proud

AS Bart Simpson would say; I didn't do it, nobody saw me do it, nobody can prove I did it!




About your side slicers they dont look very sharp and that is a problem, the edges should not be blunt.

If you have a wet well kitchen knive grinder you need to put an edge on them

 

[powerline]

If it is balanced there is a uniform load on the bearings......which would be nil until one of the blades/knives/hammers or the roller strikes something....or departs

 

[Arc weld]

The stripes when mowing are from going in opposite directions, just like mowing golf course greens. You could have no stripes but it would take longer to mow because you'd have to mow a pass, then lift the mower up and come back and do the next pass in the same direction. Grass will have a very, very, very slight angle when mowed using a flail or reel mower. Just enough that the light makes it appear to have stripes. I mowed greens years ago and if you had to finish a green because another mower broke down or something, it was easy to tell which direction to go. If it looked a dark green color, then you were good to go. If it looked the lighter green, you drove to the other side of the green to make the next pass so your stripes would match. There's a reason they always say to cut the grass at different angles and not the same way every time even when using a rotary mower. The grass will become permanently bent over in one direction.

Mott/Alamo Interstator's are specifically made for mowing ditches and banks as well as flat ground up to 21' wide. They have hyd. power packs driven off the front crankshaft. Unless you have A LOT of ditches and banks to mow, I think they'd be cost prohibitive. Mott's have to be run at 540 RPM or they won't give a good cut. The bend in the blades will also stretch at too low an RPM. Don't know what the phenomenon is called and it seems bizarre but it does in fact happen if the rotor isn't turning fast enough. Before I put scoop blades on, I'd check with Alamo to see the best blade option to get a nicer cut with your flail.

 

[sodamo]

If it is balanced there is a uniform load on the bearings......which would be nil until one of the blades/knives/hammers or the roller strikes something....or departs

Yep, busted a hammer or two before. That's when I head for the shed and why I buy spares. Don't think I've busted a Y blade, but they do wear and I did bend one.

David Sent from my iPad Air using TractorByNet

 

[sodamo]

Thanks again Leon. Very clear example and I didn't have to send wife away LOL

So thinking again ( I know, I know...)

If I change the Y spacers to total 6.7 oz, then each station would be 26.6 oz, each row 11.64 pounds and each row even ( or nearly so, as I haven't weighed all the blades). I assume (silly me) the throw weight would be at the attachment points and no longer significantly different.

Right again as for the Y blades being on the dull side, hammers aren't any sharper .
I think another point, the hammer edges attack the grass horizontally and the 2 Y blades form more of a W. Due to the bolt thru the end attachment I doubt I get the airfoil effect you often write about.

David Sent from my iPad Air using TractorByNet

 

[leonz]

can you post a clear well lit image of the flail mowers rotor for me??

thanks

 

[VirtualTractor]

I've been using a SQ720 for about 15 years to maintain my property. It's given me good service (except when I need to take the blades off LOL) but I started wondering if there's something better, as I want to be able to cut larger material.

I bought a 60 acre tree farm last year and part of the deal was to cut some trails through areas they had thinned trees. They brought out a skid steer with a forestry mulcher on the front which shredded stumps like a knife through butter. I was in love! But after looking at prices for those things, the attachment alone is over 15 grand! So that was out.

So I started looking for a smaller version that might fit on my tractor to use on my other 80 acre property. I don't expect to shred stumps with it, but I would like to tackle 2" trees. That lead me to flail mowers. For some reason, they aren't very popular in this area. My dealer said it took him 5 years to sell the last one he had, so he doesn't stock them anymore.

I couldn't find any specs on the Caroni line which indicate how much material it can handle, but the Value Leader line says it can handle 3" material. I find it hard to believe that you could bend 3" material enough to get it under the mower deck. Looking at Youtube videos I can't find any examples of these mowers going through that thick of material, just heavier grass and thatch.

So I'm looking for a recommendation on what to get.
My tractor is a late 90s JD4600 which is 42HP, 35HP at the PTO. It has R4 tires with rear wheel weights and liquid in the read tires.
I have a set of Pat's quick detach brackets which I need to keep using, as I don't have the physical strength to muscle attachments on and off without them. I've been using them for 10 years with my SQ720, the 72" King Kutter tiller and my 72" snow thrower threw **** and back and they've held up superbly.

My terrain is mostly flat-like, very few rocks. Heavy thick grass and of course saplings. I would like something 72" wide with a hydraulic offset. I already have a single rear hydraulic hookup. I want one that discharges to the rear. I want to be able to mow both in forward and reverse so I can back into brush.

I don't need to do any finish mowing with the unit, but I don't want lots of uneven stuble that's hard to walk through, as we like to walk the fields. But definetly do not need golf course clean either.

I've been looking at the EFGCH Value Leader line on Ebay, is there anything else I should consider?

 

[sodamo]

can you post a clear well lit image of the flail mowers rotor for me?? thanks

Take rotor pic is harder than I thought. If this doesn't do it, let me know.




David Sent from my iPad Air using TractorByNet

 

[leonz]

Take rotor pic is harder than I thought. If this doesn't do it, let me know.


View attachment 384298

David Sent from my iPad Air using TractorByNet

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++==

Hello David,


The image/picture is fine. You will not get much suction due to the hammer knives burt as long as it works for you

I have two rotor wide air paddles on my flail mower and it makes quite a diffierence for a small flail mower.

Just be sure to check the welds on the blade mounts occasionally to make sure they have not developed any cracks.

Are there weights welded to the rotor to balance it????

 

[leonz]

I've been using a SQ720 for about 15 years to maintain my property.

It's given me good service (except when I need to take the blades off LOL)
but I started wondering if there's something better, as I want to be able to
cut larger material.

I bought a 60 acre tree farm last year and part of the deal was to cut some
trails through areas they had thinned trees.
They brought out a skid steer with a forestry mulcher on the front which shredded
stumps like a knife through butter. I was in love! But after looking at prices for those things,
the attachment alone is over 15 grand! So that was out.

So I started looking for a smaller version that might fit on my tractor to use
on my other 80 acre property.

I don't expect to shred stumps with it, but I would like to tackle 2" trees.
That lead me to flail mowers.

For some reason, they aren't very popular in this area.
My dealer said it took him 5 years to sell the
last one he had, so he doesn't stock them anymore.

I couldn't find any specs on the Caroni line which indicate how
much material it can handle, but the Value Leader line says it
can handle 3" material.

I find it hard to believe that you could bend 3" material enough
to get it under the mower deck.

Looking at Youtube videos I can't find any examples of these mowers going t
hrough that thick of material, just heavier grass and thatch.

So I'm looking for a recommendation on what to get.
My tractor is a late 90s JD4600 which is 42HP, 35HP at the PTO.
It has R4 tires with rear wheel weights and liquid in the rear tires.

I have a set of Pat's quick detach brackets which I need to keep using,
as I don't have the physical strength to muscle attachments on and off without them.

I've been using them for 10 years with my SQ720, the 72" King Kutter tiller and
my 72" snow thrower threw **** and back and they've held up superbly.

My terrain is mostly flat-like, very few rocks. Heavy thick grass and of course saplings.
I would like something 72" wide with a hydraulic offset.
I already have a single rear hydraulic hookup. I want one that discharges to the rear.
I want to be able to mow both in forward and reverse so I can back into brush.

I don't need to do any finish mowing with the unit, but I don't want lots of uneven stuble
that's hard to walk through, as we like to walk the fields. But definetly do not need golf course clean either.

I've been looking at the EFGCH Value Leader line on Ebay, is there anything else I should consider?

======================================================================


The Caroni Flail mowers with the "B" rotor with two rows of hardened side slicers
and shackle mounting will be more than up to the task you have.

With any flailmower used you need to back over the material and drive forward
and it is shredded to bits.

YOU HAVE TO BE VERY CAREFULL;and crawl in reverse over the material to be shredded BUT

dont expect to shred 3 inch saplings UNLESS you rent a skid steer with a forestry head to make the first passes.




Most of the American made units hit 5 figures with a width that size without a side shift option.

the hydraulic side shift requires two outlets(one pair)(pressure out and return to tank)


If you have time look at the agrisupply web site and the Caroni flail mowers. several of the members have the
Caroni flailmower with the B rotor and are very happy with it.

one of our members "Island tractor" uses his 59 inch unit with the B rotor
and his mule is about your size "Kioti tractor"to reclaim farm land where he
lives and he has posted many before andafter pictures as he has many
different mowing conditions to deal with and he also mows good grass sod
as well around his farm house.


If you like I can have Rodney Barbour from agrisupply send you a price
for the 59 inch cut B rotor unit with the side shift function included.

The last time I checked thier shipping was included in the price to your front door.

Send me a pm with your contact information and I will send it to rodney for you.

 

[nova3930]

I have a 917 flail as well Nova. I'm thinking about changing out the blades on mine also. When/if you do yours, let us know how much of a pain it is. Pics would be nice as well.

Well, no pics because I was pressed for time but you really don't need any or any instructions really. The 917 is idiot proof as far as I can tell. It's two blades (Y style) and one hanger, link, carriage head bolt and lock nut per station.

In total, working on my back, no creeper, it took me 2.5 hours, but the last 1.5 hours of that was trying to disassemble the last station. Every single other one came apart easily but even after soaking in PB Blaster, the last one rounded off as soon as I put the wrench to it. Torch was out of fuel and space limitations meant no grinder, so I had to go find (we just moved so still packed up) the dremel tool and use cutoff wheels to cut the nut off. If the thing was flipped upside down and I had the impact wrench I could probably swap every station in <1 hour.

I switched to the Y blades for cost reasons. $1.68 per station for blades is a lot better than $3.58.

Got all mine from Flail Master and in my opinion, the parts I got from them were of a better design and quality than what I pulled off. The hangers that I pulled off only engaged the bolt/nut at one point. The old ones had a square hole that engaged the head of the carriage bolt but were short of engaging the nut on the back side, putting the bolt in a single shear configuration.

New hangers had a bolt hole opposite the square hole, allowing the nut to engage the hanger and putting the bolt in a much stronger double shear configuration. The old single shear hangers is probably why I was missing everything on so many of the stations.

One curious thing however. When you look up my model number (22-183) on the New Holland website, it calls it a 72" mower. Flailmaster says a 6ft mower should have 33 blade stations. Mine only has 27 stations, which corresponds to a 5 foot mower.

Maybe our resident experts can tell what's going on with the discrepancy. It's not a big issue because it means I have 6 full sets of spares since I ordered 33 sets based on the flail master info.

 

[leonz]

It has to do with the scoop knives as some of the rotors can use both types if my memory is right.

Does your Mott have the trash door??

 

[TNhobbyfarmer]

Well, no pics because I was pressed for time but you really don't need any or any instructions really. The 917 is idiot proof as far as I can tell. It's two blades (Y style) and one hanger, link, carriage head bolt and lock nut per station.

In total, working on my back, no creeper, it took me 2.5 hours, but the last 1.5 hours of that was trying to disassemble the last station. Every single other one came apart easily but even after soaking in PB Blaster, the last one rounded off as soon as I put the wrench to it. Torch was out of fuel and space limitations meant no grinder, so I had to go find (we just moved so still packed up) the dremel tool and use cutoff wheels to cut the nut off. If the thing was flipped upside down and I had the impact wrench I could probably swap every station in <1 hour.

I switched to the Y blades for cost reasons. $1.68 per station for blades is a lot better than $3.58.

Got all mine from Flail Master and in my opinion, the parts I got from them were of a better design and quality than what I pulled off. The hangers that I pulled off only engaged the bolt/nut at one point. The old ones had a square hole that engaged the head of the carriage bolt but were short of engaging the nut on the back side, putting the bolt in a single shear configuration.

New hangers had a bolt hole opposite the square hole, allowing the nut to engage the hanger and putting the bolt in a much stronger double shear configuration. The old single shear hangers is probably why I was missing everything on so many of the stations.

One curious thing however. When you look up my model number (22-183) on the New Holland website, it calls it a 72" mower. Flailmaster says a 6ft mower should have 33 blade stations. Mine only has 27 stations, which corresponds to a 5 foot mower.

Maybe our resident experts can tell what's going on with the discrepancy. It's not a big issue because it means I have 6 full sets of spares since I ordered 33 sets based on the flail master info.

Thanks Nova. Mine is a 6 footer. It has 33 stations. There is a 917 owner on TBN that sharpens his blades with an angle grinder without taking them off. Not sure how he keeps them from moving while sharpening them. Can't remember his name. From somewhere in the Carolinas I think. If he sees this and wants to explain, please do so.

 

[nova3930]

It has to do with the scoop knives as some of the rotors can use both types if my memory is right.

Does your Mott have the trash door??

Uh I'm confused. I've got a Ford 917. Model on the tag is 22-183

Thanks Nova. Mine is a 6 footer. It has 33 stations. There is a 917 owner on TBN that sharpens his blades with an angle grinder without taking them off. Not sure how he keeps them from moving while sharpening them. Can't remember his name. From somewhere in the Carolinas I think. If he sees this and wants to explain, please do so.

Could probably hold them in place with a welding clamp the way the rotor is configured.

Guess I'll see how it cuts tomorrow. Taking a day off work just to work different.

 

[nova3930]

Ran the mower all day yesterday. Cuts much better with fresh blades. Even ran across some rocks and trash and didn't lose a single blade. The only thing about is it tends to miss tall skinny weed here and there but that won't be an issue as I cut more and more transitioning to more grass.

 

[Edistocat]

Whew, what a thread!

 

[leonz]

Whew, what a thread!

I hope it was helpfull enough to convince you to become a member of the Flail Mower Nation.

 

[Edistocat]

What do y'all know about a Kuhn VKM 240? Can't seem to get any reviews on it. Thanks.....

 

[nova3930]

Well I broke it last night. The worn bearing housing gave up the ghost while I was cutting. Looks like the worn through area resulted in a stress concentration that fatigued. Decided to just go ahead and replace both housings and bearings. The RH housing was only $50 but the broken LH housing has been supplanted by a BushHog manufactured part and is double the price. At least I was able to cross reference and track down bearings for $14/each instead of the $50 NH wants.