Flail Mower Let's talk flail mowers

[Arc weld]

A Ford 917 and most other flails aren't made for cutting brush. 2" brush needs a forestry mower or a heavy duty bush hog.

 

[IslandTractor]

A Ford 917 and most other flails aren't made for cutting brush. 2" brush needs a forestry mower or a heavy duty bush hog.

Agree. One inch brush or similar sized saplings is about the practical limit for a medium duty (eg Caroni) mower. You can cut slightly bigger stuff by going carefully and slowly but it would be much faster to just mount a medium duty bush hog and plow through. The bush hog will leave a big mess compared to the flail but is far more practical. I cut bigger brush with the rotary (Woods Brush Bull 600) and then follow up a few weeks later with the flail to help pulverize the bigger debris left by the rotary.

 

[TNhobbyfarmer]

A Ford 917 and most other flails aren't made for cutting brush. 2" brush needs a forestry mower or a heavy duty bush hog.

Agree totally. I wouldn't want to use my Ford 917 in saplings much more than 1/2". However, I will say that I have cut areas with knee high grass/weeds very successfully. It leaves a much cleaner look that a rotary.

 

[nova3930]

Agree totally. I wouldn't want to use my Ford 917 in saplings much more than 1/2". However, I will say that I have cut areas with knee high grass/weeds very successfully. It leaves a much cleaner look that a rotary.

I rolled through some weeds that were over a mans head with mine and had no issues. I wouldn't want to use it on brush or saplings though.

 

[IslandTractor]

Been a while since I posted the note below, but I just got around to doing a complete conversion to Flailmaster clevises and blades on my Caroni 1900. After busting a few more Caroni clevises mulching up some thicker/rougher stuff, I just wasn't willing to keep spending the ridiculous money on the Agri Supply Caroni parts. Changes/observations from when I mocked up the parts earlier: - Grinding is necessary, but relatively little - and even after doing so, the Flailmaster clevis is still more substantial than the Caroni/Agri Supply clevis. I initially didn't think it would be necessary, as the lone clevis I modified swung without interference. Turns out - it's extremely close, and the tabs on the drum are not very uniform. Some of the tabs are slightly narrower than others, so the clevises wouldn't swing completely free on all of them. Taking off 1/6" or so per side made the modified clevises swing freely on all the tabs. - My neighbor who has years more experience than I with such things suggested another change. He looked at some of the legs that remained from the broken clevises and suggested relieving the blade holes with a conical grinder head. His point being, that the edges of the blade holes are quite sharp and the material is hardened, and he could see where the sharp corners had worked their way through the Caroni clevises. While the Flailmaster clevises are far beefier, I still relieved all the top edges of the blade holes to hopefully reduce this effect. - Rather than using a bolt/nut to squeeze the Flailmaster clevises together to fit between the drum tabs, a good sized vice did the trick very quickly. Basically, just squeeze the ears together until you can just get a blade to slide over them. The whole conversion took a couple hours. I've about 2 hours mowing since doing so, all seems fine - works as well as before. I've got a job next week that will have me mowing some heavier brush and will report back on how these hold up. As an aside...I've got over 20 used original Caroni clevises that are certainly serviceable. If anyone is interested in them, I'll let them go far cheaper than new... <img src="http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/files/attachments/377666-lets-talk-flail-mowers-relievedblade-jpg"/><img src="http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/files/attachments/377667-lets-talk-flail-mowers-assembly-1-jpg"/><img src="http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/files/attachments/377668-lets-talk-flail-mowers-assembly-2-jpg"/>

DaNag,

How about an update on how the new Flailmaster clevises are working out? I just used up my last overpriced Caroni clevis and need to either order more or make the switch.

Also, how did you go about relieving the edges of the blade holes? Die grinder?


I noticed when I changed out a couple of broken clevises today that 1) they all break in exactly the same spot (corner) and that 2) by the time they break, the clevis bottom has worn considerably to about half the diameter of new ones... Seems the flail blades are indeed eating into the clevis and that a beefier clevis and softened knife mount holes might increase longevity.

 

[nova3930]

Man, broke the 917 again this past friday. Apparently I'm rough on equipment. Least it failed right at the point I was finishing mowing. Should have a few weeks before it needs it again.

One of the lift links split right where it comes through the frame. Looks like it was welded for the same failure sometime in the distant past. Since the previous weld lasted a good long time, I may try the same rather than dropping $ on a part.

 

[TNhobbyfarmer]

Man, broke the 917 again this past friday. Apparently I'm rough on equipment. Least it failed right at the point I was finishing mowing. Should have a few weeks before it needs it again.

One of the lift links split right where it comes through the frame. Looks like it was welded for the same failure sometime in the distant past. Since the previous weld lasted a good long time, I may try the same rather than dropping $ on a part.

View attachment 387829

Nova, sorry to hear about your maintenance issues with the 917. Knock on wood, I have had few issues with my 917. I haven't used mine too much, so who knows what the future holds. These old pieces of equipment are always a crap shoot, but for the price vs new, it can be a good risk. I think welding that arm should be a cheap long term fix. Let us know how it works out.

 

[nova3930]

Nova, sorry to hear about your maintenance issues with the 917. Knock on wood, I have had few issues with my 917. I haven't used mine too much, so who knows what the future holds. These old pieces of equipment are always a crap shoot, but for the price vs new, it can be a good risk. I think welding that arm should be a cheap long term fix. Let us know how it works out.

I thini mine has just seen some rough service over the years is all. Even with all the repairs and such I'm still in it for < $1000. Find me a new one for that price not shipped in on a slow boat from china. Be a world of difference if I wasn't handy with a wrench and had to pay someone everytime something broke...

 

[RKJeepXJ]

Man, broke the 917 again this past friday. Apparently I'm rough on equipment. Least it failed right at the point I was finishing mowing. Should have a few weeks before it needs it again.

One of the lift links split right where it comes through the frame. Looks like it was welded for the same failure sometime in the distant past. Since the previous weld lasted a good long time, I may try the same rather than dropping $ on a part.

View attachment 387829

Aside from your flail mower breakage, how's that Boomer handle the 917? Good matchup?

 

[nova3930]

Aside from your flail mower breakage, how's that Boomer handle the 917? Good matchup?

Works great. Took on weeds taller than a man the first time I used it with no issues. Have yet to choke it down. Around 40 pto HP seems to be a good matchup...

 

[Kodiak45]

I'm thinking about a flail mower since my bush hog gearbox just broke and I was wondering how they would do cutting wildlife plots, specifically a dove field where you want to scatter the seed. That's one thing I liked about the bush hog is that it would take the stalks and windrow them and my thought was the seed was hopefully scattered in the cleaner area. But it the flail mulches everything up, then the seeds will be part of the mulch and possibly covered in the debris.... .Make sense? what do you think?

 

[leonz]

I'm thinking about a flail mower since my bush hog gearbox just
broke and I was wondering how they would do cutting wildlife plots,
specifically a dove field where you want to scatter the seed.

That's one thing I liked about the bush hog is that it would take the
stalks and windrow them and my thought was the seed was hopefully
scattered in the cleaner area. But it the flail mulches everything up, t
hen the seeds will be part of the mulch and possibly covered in the debris.... .

Make sense? What do you think?[/QUOTE
=============================================================================


Good evening,

Aout your mower issues/needs a flail will cut down a
food plot better than any rotary cutter.

If you leave the rear roller at two inches of cutting height
you will have plenty of windrowed material and scattered
seeds as the cut will be finer and the cliipings will dissolve
back into the soil sooner than the full length brush left by
a rotary cutter of any brand.

You just have to decide if you want a finish cut flail
mower with four rows of side slicers or a rough cut
flail with two rows.

You have to decide how much money you can spend
and the quality of cut you want first.

 

[Arc weld]

Man, broke the 917 again this past friday. Apparently I'm rough on equipment. Least it failed right at the point I was finishing mowing. Should have a few weeks before it needs it again.

One of the lift links split right where it comes through the frame. Looks like it was welded for the same failure sometime in the distant past. Since the previous weld lasted a good long time, I may try the same rather than dropping $ on a part.

View attachment 387829

You could weld the link but considering it's just a piece of flat bar with 2 holes in it, why not just make a new piece?

 

[1026mrg]

I'm thinking about a flail mower since my bush hog gearbox just broke and I was wondering how they would do cutting wildlife plots, specifically a dove field where you want to scatter the seed. ... what do you think?

I am very new to flail mowers. Just bought one with the purchase driven largely by food plot mowing & maintenance. We did not have a mower prior to this purchase. Another gent mows all of our fields with a bush hog. But we decided to get a mower to maintain the food plots on a more frequent basis than the other fields. We went with a flail and have not been disappointed.

Have cut some fields prior to plowing & disking for fall planting. I think that the flail does a better job of cutting & mulching than the bush hog. But, you have to go slowly with the flail. Drive a bit more slowly, but the mulching action is much better. Also, have used it a couple of times to trim up our clover fields when they got too high. Once again, better cutting and mulching than the bush hog. We don't cut as closely as others have suggested. Fields are in the mountains and we get the occasional rock despite several years of rock clearing. So we keep the mower on a higher setting to avoid damaging the hammers with too many rock collisions.

We did do some overseeding of some thin spots in the clover fields. Did not notice any adverse impact on the overseeding from the flail.

While we have not done a "spring mowing" yet, I expect that the flail will do a better job mulching & cutting the prior year's plant stubble than a bush hog.

 

[Rocky Hoffler]

I know this thread is exhaustive and read most of the replys but I would like to know what kind of flail mower I would need to replace a rotary cutter that I regularly cut 2 inch or better stuff don't care about cutting the lawn with it. Would like it about 6 feet wide have a 46 hp tractor thanks

 

[IslandTractor]

I know this thread is exhaustive and read most of the replys but I would like to know what kind of flail mower I would need to replace a rotary cutter that I regularly cut 2 inch or better stuff don't care about cutting the lawn with it. Would like it about 6 feet wide have a 46 hp tractor thanks

Regular cutting of two inch thick brush or saplings requires a "heavy duty" flail and a 50hp+ tractor IMO. Several US made flail companies would suffice ( Alamo, Vrisimo, Rhino, Mott etc). Expect to pay in the range of 6-8K or so, maybe more. A 46hp tractor would be marginal to run one of those beasts, especially if you expect to cruise along at typical mowing speeds.

A six foot medium or heavy duty bush hog on a 46hp tractor would cut such material more easily but would leave big chunks of debris rather than mulch like a flail.

 

[aaron14011]

It really depends on not only how heavy duty the flail is, but also how heavy the hammers, or flails are. I'm running a JD 990 with about 42 engine hp and 35 pto hp pulling an alamo shd88 with extreme duty flails from flailmaster. I've tried 2" saplings, and it's just not effective. A bush hog will eat 'em up all day long. I have to go very slow and take 3 or 4 passes. You can hear the flails bouncing off so it's not something that I recommend. I mow about 30 acres a year and for most of it I use the flail. It's wider, it looks nicer when I'm done and it's lighter on the tractor. On the negative side it uses a lot more hp, so more fuel and is louder in the brushy stuff. If I don't mow the field for a year or 2 it turns into mostly dogwood between the size of a pencil and your finger and that flail doesn't like anything more than that.

The heavier the hammers the bigger the things you can grind, but you pay a price when it finds a rock.

 

[Utopia Texas]

I have agree with the post above in that a flail has to run at higher speeds generally than a rotary cutter and at slower forward speeds. I use at least 30% more diesel using my flail on the same pasture than with a rotary cutter? There are pros and cons to the different types of cutters.

 

[nova3930]

You could weld the link but considering it's just a piece of flat bar with 2 holes in it, why not just make a new piece?

Mainly due to a lack of time. The two outside links have bends in them. Estimating the time to correctly reproduce the part, I just don't think it's worth it to save $60. Time spent in repairs is time I'm not spending with my wife and son or doing productive work so to warrant spend big time on a repair, I've got to save big $.

Considering it's one bolt that holds the thing on, I'm really tempted to not even bother with a weld because at that point it's a 5 minute repair job with a new part...

 

[IslandTractor]

Having busted several clevises on my Caroni 1900 recently during an initial lot clearing, I discovered the sticker shock of buying parts from Agri Supply for this implement. Querying here for options resulted in the sad news known to many of you - nobody seems to have found an alternative for the ridiculously priced $7 metric clevis. That didn't sit well with me...

I may have found a solution. I say "may", as I've not actually tried it yet - but once I've used up the last of my four spare metric clevises from Agri Supply, I'll give it a try and report back if nobody else has given it a whirl.

I got the idea from Island Tractor's post, wherein he gave the info on cheaper blades from Flailmaster.com. I picked up a bunch of those, and they do indeed work fine. However, he also mentioned an SAE clevis - Flailmaster part #M-100761. This clevis is too wide to fit between the ears of the Caroni drum. However...I was able to easily tweak it to fit. Pic:

I simply took one of the M10x80mm bolts and a nut, and pressed the SAE clevis together. It deformed as I expected, such that the ears are no longer perfectly parallel - but that doesn't seem to matter. The assembly shown above still moves easily on the stock M10x80mm bolt, swinging back and forth with no interference. The clevis modification takes all of a minute or so.

Some caveats:

- You'll likely want to replace all of your metric clevises if you go this route - not just the broken ones. This SAE clevis is indeed beefier than the metric one, and weighs more. I'd be concerned about proper balance mixing them up.

- The entire assembly is just a tad longer than stock - perhaps 1/8".

Here's a breakdown of current pricing from Agri Supply vs. the sources I used for the entire assembly:

Agri Supply

Clevis: 6.99
2 x Blades@ 3.49: 6.98
M10x80mm Bolt: 3.49
M10 Nylock nut: 1.49
Total: $18.95

Elsewhere

Clevis M-100761: $2.80 (flailmaster.com)
2 x M-108381 blades@$1.54: 3.08 (flailmaster.com)
M10x80mm Bolt: 0.46 (nutty.com)
M10 Nylock nut: 0.13 (nutty.com)
Total: $6.47

Yup...almost 1/3 the price. And, based on the sturdier appearance of the SAE clevis - my guess is, the cheaper assembly will hold up to more abuse.

Again - untested, but looks promising.

I was looking to get an update from DaNag about his experiences over the past two seasons using the Flailmaster clevis instead of the original Caroni clevis. He doesn't seem to be very active on TBN these days so we may not hear back. I decided to go ahead and start using the Flailmaster clevises using DaNag's modification technique which is simply to squeeze the open end of the clevis in a table vise (using a pipe for leverage) and then using a grinder or flap disk to shave off a small amount extra (he did 1/6", I did probably only 1/16") so the clevis swings freely in the mount. I'm posting this to give you my experience after starting to switch over.

As you Caroni owners undoubtedly know, the original Caroni supplied clevises wear out pretty quickly (a season or two) and when they break, you lose the clevis plus a couple of knives. PITA and expensive as each set (clevis, knives and bolt/nut) costs almost $20 from AgriSupply. I did some aggressive mowing this week and had to replace seven sets. Over the seven years I have had my mower, I have probably replaced about 40-50 sets. That starts to add up even if using the cheaper Flailmaster blades and purchasing the M10x80mm bolt and lock nut in bulk. Also, as the mower gets out of balance after losing a set or two, it means frequently having to stop, return to the barn and spend twenty minutes changing out the broken sets. As I stated, a PITA and a blemish on what is otherwise a very fine mower. The issue is pretty clearly that the Caroni supplied clevises simply wear down pretty quickly and once they get to about 1/4" thickness, they break when hitting something fairly solid such as a stump or rock. See photo #1 which shows that virtually every single break is at the corner of the clevis and that the clevises are worn by about half (don't have any remaining new Caroni clevises to compare in the photo but they start off about 3/8" thick). When new they don't break nearly as easily. After a season or two the clevises become fragile.

I ordered a full set of 28 Flailmaster clevises plus spares (part number M-100761 from flailmaster.com) as well as a new set of blades with the intention of switching over the whole set at once just as DaNag had done. However, after modifying a few of the new Flailmaster clevises and mounting them with blades, I decided to see how the mower ran. Smooth. No evidence of imbalance even though the Flailmaster clevis is about 0.8 ounces heavier than the Caroni version. After that little test I decided to do some light mowing with the mixed set. Worked fine. Then moved to heavier mowing (basically fields unmown in two years with waist high grass and brush and ???occasional rocks and unseen stumps/tree limbs etc. Mowing in this heavier duty test went fine but I noticed after a while some increased vibration so I checked the mower and sure enough I had lost another three Caroni clevis sets. Back to barn, put in three more Flailmasters and went mowing again. All well but again after a while vibration and to no surprise a few more Caroni sets were gone. At this point I just decided that I will bring sets of the modified Flailmaster parts into the field with me and change them out as needed. There does NOT seem to be any reason to bother changing out all 28 sets at once (it can be a challenge to unbolt some of the old ones as the outboard threads on the M10 bolts are pretty banged up after years of mowing).

Bottom line:
1) DaNag's modification (squeeze in vice plus grinder to the sides) works just fine.
2) The Flailmaster clevises are heavier duty
3) No need to change out all 28 at once as the rotor is still in balance if only one or two at a time are changed.

Photos 2 and 3 show modified clevis (actually I ground a bit more off after taking photo). Photo 4 shows simply the field I was mowing.