Generator wiring

[IndyJay]

^^^Yes! Electrician look at it! My suggestion exactly!

I actually had an electrician look at my setup. He said that as long as I use it the way I described it was fine.
Obviously, a licensed contractor would never set something up like this because it is not code. I would not recommend this for most people since you do need to fully understand what you are doing and why It must be done in a particular order.

 

[TDNelin]

I have wired in my own and a couple of neighbors' places, and it was simply a matter of putting a 220 breaker into an empty slot in the main panel and wiring in a generator plug-in on an outside wall next to the generator using heavy wiring like stove wiring and making a sliding metal gate that allowed only the new breaker or the panel's main breaker to be on. The new breaker will supply power to the entire breaker panel as long as the slider is moved so the main switch cannot be turned on until the generator breaker is turned off and vice/versa. If you don't bother with some setup to prevent power going back out to the grid while the generator is running, you could be sued for killing some repair people trying to restore the outage! Hope this makes sense and helps!

 

[DaBear3428]

I do the same. I disconnect the pigtail when not in use. Not dangerous if you know you are doing and why. Turn off breakers to heavy draws, Isolate from utility, connect pigtail, fire up generator, close breaker feeding panel. Reverse order to restore.

Again not code compliant, and please don't recommend unsafe things to people. It is your life and live it how you want but just because you think you know what you are doing doesn't make it safe, at best you are mitigating risk with your knowledge. Some one else may take that as an example of a safe way to connect a generator. I fall back to the NEC to recommend a code compliant solution and as long as people meet the code, it may not be fool proof but it is idiot resistant. What you are championing is dangerous for someone that does not know.
I need to step out of this conversation because this is starting to be like work and I have to go back to that on monday.

 

[IndyJay]

Again not code compliant, and please don't recommend unsafe things to people. It is your life and live it how you want but just because you think you know what you are doing doesn't make it safe, at best you are mitigating risk with your knowledge. Some one else may take that as an example of a safe way to connect a generator. I fall back to the NEC to recommend a code compliant solution and as long as people meet the code, it may not be fool proof but it is idiot resistant. What you are championing is dangerous for someone that does not know.
I need to step out of this conversation because this is starting to been like work and I have to go back to that on monday.

I didn't recommend anything. Read my post in It's entirety.

 

[DaBear3428]

I didn't recommend anything. Read my post in It's entirety.

Your comment was I do the same and then went on to describe using pigtails and wirenuts to connect the generator in a manor that is not code compliant. If I misunderstood you sorry but it looked to me like you were recommending something that is not code compliant.

 

[grsthegreat]

It does get tiring.

 

[Fuddyduddy1952]

I can agree with you on that

Thanks! You're a good fellow...not for agreeing with me so much as a retired electrician you know what's what!
Maybe it's grsthegreat is/was an electrician. So many people dove on me it's hard keeping straight who's who!

 

[Fuddyduddy1952]

I actually had an electrician look at my setup. He said that as long as I use it the way I described it was fine.
Obviously, a licensed contractor would never set something up like this because it is not code. I would not recommend this for most people since you do need to fully understand what you are doing and why It must be done in a particular order.

I have to thank Mossy for this simple add on.
Every panel box should be equipped and although I don't need it it's super easy fabricating so I'll install one. I love inexpensive "goof-proof" things.

 

[aircommuter]

Well I read through all the posts so I wouldn’t duplicate anything. This is a solution that was free, installed by the power company. I didn’t need it since I have a Kohler Fast Response II 50kw 3ph 12 lead reconnect able generator with two transfer switches, 3ph and 1ph. Self installed. I am a licensed general engineering and building contractor.
Take a look at the device between the meter and the panel, it came with a 25’- 4 wire cord. Designed for 200 amp panel and 30 amp generator input. Probably would be enough to get most people by.

 

[bgr]

You need to remember that an installation which is not code and not inspected, no matter how clever and electrically functional, will allow your homeowner's insurance company to avoid paying for damages and liability coverage for anything which they might cover otherwise. Their adjusters will look for anything which might void their coverage even at a stretch. You won't find this out until the problem has occurred.
If you are paying a mortgage, your insurance will cover their interests, too. You could lose that coverage and end up with a mortgage cancellation and demand for payment.
The inspector's written approval is important to you.

 

[Gord Baker]

First. Employ a licenced reputable repair person who is familiar with Generators.
YOU MUST HAVE THE INTERLOCK SWITCH SO YOU DON'T POWER OUTSIDE LINES! YOU COULD KILL A LINEMAN.
THIS IS NOT FOR THE DIY PERSON.

 

[HAR]

I hope that the OP's question has been answered. However, for my two cents....

When I had my home wired for my 10KW PTO generator, I had a licensed electrician do the work, When I queried him about those 'mechanical' interlocks, his reply, "They only work if and when the panel cover is installed !" If the cover is off, all bets are off.

He gave me two options. A set up where certain circuits to a separate panel are powered by the generator and a setup where the whole house was connected using a double throw switch between the power company and the Generator. For the prices that he quoted, I went with the 200Amp double throw connection. When the connection is in the 'UP" position, I am connected to my UTILITY Company and full power. When the connection is in the "DOWN" position, I am running off the limited output of the 10KW PTO Generator. Either way, all household circuits are covered. I just have to decide what is the most important and not overload my generator. As a precaution, when I am running the PTO generator, I shut off the breakers for my two biggest energy hogs...the Stove and Clothes dryer. If I do not, the circuit breaker on the generator will shut it down. I have been running this way for nearly 18 years and have had absolutely no problems.

The really nice feature with my setup is, if I ever want to upgrade the generator that I do have, when I connect a larger generator, my setup is all wired to take advantage of any increase in power.

Photo 5621a showing:
#1 - Power from the UTILITY to the double throw Transfer Switch.
#2 - Power out from the double throw Transfer Switch into the house
#3 - Power from the PTO Generator into the double throw Transfer Switch (white is #6 AWG ground for the PTO generator with heavy duty battery clamps on each end)
#4 - Double throw Transfer Switch box

Photo 5622a: showing double throw switch for either ON LINE (Utility power) or ON AUX (PTO generator)

 

[grsthegreat]

cant fault

I hope that the OP's question has been answered. However, for my two cents....

When I had my home wired for my 10KW PTO generator, I had a licensed electrician do the work, When I queried him about those 'mechanical' interlocks, his reply, "They only work if and when the panel cover is installed !" If the cover is off, all bets are off.

He gave me two options. A set up where certain circuits to a separate panel are powered by the generator and a setup where the whole house was connected using a double throw switch between the power company and the Generator. For the prices that he quoted, I went with the 200Amp double throw connection. When the connection is in the 'UP" position, I am connected to my UTILITY Company and full power. When the connection is in the "DOWN" position, I am running off the limited output of the 10KW PTO Generator. Either way, all household circuits are covered. I just have to decide what is the most important and not overload my generator. As a precaution, when I am running the PTO generator, I shut off the breakers for my two biggest energy hogs...the Stove and Clothes dryer. If I do not, the circuit breaker on the generator will shut it down. I have been running this way for nearly 18 years and have had absolutely no problems.

The really nice feature with my setup is, if I ever want to upgrade the generator that I do have, when I connect a larger generator, my setup is all wired to take advantage of any increase in power.

Photo 5621a showing:
#1 - Power from the UTILITY to the double throw Transfer Switch.
#2 - Power out from the double throw Transfer Switch into the house
#3 - Power from the PTO Generator into the double throw Transfer Switch (white is #6 AWG ground for the PTO generator with heavy duty battery clamps on each end)
#4 - Double throw Transfer Switch box

Photo 5622a: showing double throw switch for either ON LINE (Utility power) or ON AUX (PTO generator)

his logic there is absolutely correct.....

those are great switches. but the standard interlock IS UL Listed for use. But your correct, they ONLY work when dead front cover is installed. But honestly, why would cover be off?

 

[grsthegreat]

First. Employ a licenced reputable repair person who is familiar with Generators.
YOU MUST HAVE THE INTERLOCK SWITCH SO YOU DON'T POWER OUTSIDE LINES! YOU COULD KILL A LINEMAN.
THIS IS NOT FOR THE DIY PERSON.

Nonsense. ive seen many homeowner installed interlocks done over the years. not brain surgery. If someone is competent enough to understand the dangers in working around a panel, its an easy job. the interlocks i purchase come with full instructions.

now, if your talking about someone thats a clutz and not sure how a breaker works, then yes, leave it to the professionals.

 

[animal12]

Fuddyduddy obviously has no concern for the people that supply his grid power . Lineman have injured & killed by people just like him . What you have is illegal . Just plain Illegal . Just


because you drive around with a beer between your legs & haven't got caught or hurt someone is the same logic you have about your generator . Why don't you have your power company


come out & inspect your setup ? See what they have to say about it . Or you could give us your address & we can call your power co for you .

animal

 

[animal12]

I forgot to mention that I have had peoples power shut off for having setups like good ole Fuddy has .
animal

 

[LouNY]

^^^^^^ glad your in CA,

 

[HAR]

If anyone is wondering if there is really a danger from 'backfeeding' into the grid, here is a great video, that I found several years ago, done by Dominion Energy. They have a portable unit, which they use traveling throughout their territory, to educate public safety departments (police, fire, rescue, etc) about downed power lines. At or about 20 minutes into the video, they demonstrate that the whole demonstration is carried out buy using a portable generator to power the whole demonstration unit. That is, a portable home generator with 120 volts back fed into a step down transformer steps up to over 7000 volts in the power lines. Feel free to share video with anyone who has and uses any home generator, be it portable, PTO, or on site backup generator.

 

[aircommuter]

Things that were code many years ago are not often code approved today and in most cases are not required to be.
When inspecting older buildings one must reference the code that was applicable at the time the plans were submitted.

 

[MossRoad]

Nonsense. ive seen many homeowner installed interlocks done over the years. not brain surgery. If someone is competent enough to understand the dangers in working around a panel, its an easy job. the interlocks i purchase come with full instructions.

now, if your talking about someone thats a clutz and not sure how a breaker works, then yes, leave it to the professionals.

I agree.

It starts with learning how to change a lightbulb safely. Then learn how to reset a GFCI. Then replace a broken light switch or outlet. Or maybe a bathroom fan.

Every homeowner should know how to disconnect the power in their house for safety reasons. Just like the should know how to turn off the gas or water.

These are tasks that can be learned through books, videos, hands-on experience with a competent teacher.

People should not fear electricity, they should respect it, and learn how to use it, troubleshoot it, and repair it.

I learned basic electronics/electrical around 8-10 years old. Pretty simple stuff.

It's a great skill to learn, or just to have the knowledge of what's going on in the box and behind the walls.

By all means, if you're not comfortable or knowledgeable about something, consult a professional. But 110/220 home wiring is not rocket science. It's very logical and beautifully simple. Most people can understand it with a little reading and patience.