davesl708
Elite Member
TNhobbyfarmer, Could you please update us on what your nephew-in-law recommends for your wiring solution please?
I think it would be a benefit to other members.
Good luck with your project.
Dave :thumbsup:
Electrical advice needed
- Thread starter TNhobbyfarmer
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TNhobbyfarmer, Could you please update us on what your nephew-in-law recommends for your wiring solution please?
I think it would be a benefit to other members.
Good luck with your project.
Dave :thumbsup:
teejk
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That is one big machine! Will produce a big pile of wood shavings I think. Horse bedding?
GregbkH
Gold Member
Motor circuits are calculated based on horsepower of the motor. For single phase motors look in table 430.248 to get your circuit amperage. Conductors are then calculated at 125% of the table ampreage rating and the circuit breaker can be 250% of the table amperage rating. If the cb size falls in between manufactured sizes, you may select the size up.
I do this for a living.
I do this for a living.
OP
TNhobbyfarmer
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Not quite sure why welders got brought into the mix here. The machine is not a welder.
buickanddeere
Super Member
Because it's the same plug as Welders use. Your shop will have he ability to operate a welder someday if desired . An electric car charger if so desired too.
OP
TNhobbyfarmer
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Based on the information I have supplied, can you recommend a wire size and amperage for the breaker? That's all I am asking.
CobyRupert
Super Member
Greg is correct. The manual says 5 hp motor will draw ~25 amps, which makes a 30 amp circuit too small. Code (table 430.248) says it will draw 28 amps, and you must size circuit based on this, which also makes a 30 amp circuit too small.
Will a 30 amp circuit work?: Most of the time.
Will it be safe: Yes, even if it does trip out occasionally.
Will it be to Code? The answer is obvious, but let's pretend it falls under Article 90.4: "...the authority having jurisdiction (AHJ) may waive specific requirements..."
GregbkH
Gold Member
If it is indeed a 5 hp motor, you would be fine with 8 awg conductors with a 10 awg equipment ground run off of a 60 amp two pole breaker.
Motor circuits have their own rules.
LD1
Epic Contributor
I am not versed in electrical code, and cannot cite anything....but protecting a 8ga circuit with a 60a breaker for an electric motor dont sound right?
CobyRupert
Super Member
Greg, Assuming OP does what you say, what about the plug/receptacle?
Do you know of anything in the Code that says you can't put a 30 amp receptacle on a 60 amp circuit?
On one hand, anything with a 30 amp plug shouldn't draw more than 30 amps (or hopefully 24 amps),
...On the other hand, it doesn't feel right, but I can't find anything explicit in the code that says you can't.
Do you know of anything in the Code that says you can't put a 30 amp receptacle on a 60 amp circuit?
On one hand, anything with a 30 amp plug shouldn't draw more than 30 amps (or hopefully 24 amps),
...On the other hand, it doesn't feel right, but I can't find anything explicit in the code that says you can't.
SPYDERLK
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A planer does not start under load, so locked rotor current of ~ 100A on a 30A motor would be extremely brief. A 30A double pole breaker may sustain that brief starting surge. ... AWG 10 copper will sustain your FLA running current fine, and if a short length run thats what Id use IF a 30A breaker is determined not to give nuisance trips on startup. Going to 40A and 8Ga would give plenty of wiggle room.
You need 3 wires -- 2 hots and Ground. A 4th wire will be needed only if your planer needs a neutral to run an auxiliary 120V circuit.
buickanddeere
Super Member
The breaker is to protect the cable and router from over current due to a short circuit . The thermal overloads in the motor starter protect the cable and router motor from over heating to to overloading . Over loading is a state where line current is approx 115-300% of the motor nameplate amps.
teejk
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Finding this whole conversation somewhat amusing...regardless of the site/board, when it comes to electricity the board "lights up". OP apparently has the manual for his tool. I would do what they say. I'm sure the manufacturer has "done the math" because of legal/warranty concerns. Can't hurt to oversize the circuit but why? Cost goes up as the size goes up.
buickanddeere
Super Member
Under sized cable causes VD and can become too warm.
Undersized breaker will trip during starting inrush.
Undersized breaker will fail earlier than the proper sized breaker.
It's amazing how persons with no formal electrical training in theory or practical. The jackleg electricians will argue all day that they know more than the electrical engineers who wrote the National Electrical Code Book.
Electricity is a "Mystical Black Art" best left to the professionals. Remember what happened to Mickey Mouse with a little knowledge.
buickanddeere
Super Member
The breaker or fuses at the panel provide Short Circuit protection which motor thermal overloads can not provide.
Motor Thermal Overloads in the motor starter provide protection to the supply cable, connections, starter and motor from thermal damage due to overloading.
Both systems are required to provide electrical protection.
Motor Thermal Overloads in the motor starter provide protection to the supply cable, connections, starter and motor from thermal damage due to overloading.
Both systems are required to provide electrical protection.
buckeyefarmer
Epic Contributor
If the manual says 6-30R, that's what I would install, with 10awg and 30A breaker. 8awg is ok too.
teejk
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Well...if you have a well known manufacturer and they lay out the requirements (surely passed by their engineers and legal departments), why argue with them? As for the National Electric Code, it is becoming a joke in too many ways...the basic principles have not changed since before Edison. I find the biggest objectors to "DIY" electrical are those that object to people figuring out that most things don't require a professional. I hired one on this house and spent a lot of time fixing his screw-ups (some that will never get fixed without tearing out drywall and doing it right). Guessing you are in that camp.
OP
TNhobbyfarmer
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That makes too much sense for some on here. Not enough technical jargon and useless gobbledygook.
buickanddeere
Super Member
Why not start out with " do you still beat your wife ? "
CobyRupert
Super Member
Look at the wiring diagram and tell me where the motor overload is. The thing that labeled reset? Is the 30amp circuit breaker the overload protection? I haven't seen anything that tells me this manufacturer and its instructions have a clue on the wiring requirements. Clue #1: it's a motor >1 hp.
