Do battery cables go bad?

[bcp]

This has to be the poorest solution for rapair of battery cables....

I don't mind those. But throw away the sheet metal part of the clamp, then use the clamp for one or more of these.





Bruce

 

[jaxs]

Of course the new starter turns engine faster than the old one that had wear on it. If shimming doesn't cure the problem,you are money ahead to have a pro fix it. Fuel savings alone add up but the worst of it is engine damage caused by wet stacking. Labor to fix this is cheap compared to a bottom end rebuild. Just make sure the mechanic know's your type engine. Older diesels are hard to kill but there's some jake leg mechanics that do more damage than they fix.

 

[dragoneggs]

My point was that the wire itself is highly unlikely to be an issue. The connections at the wire to its end connectors or connectors to the terminal is where 99.99% of the time the issue is when talking about the cables. If the insulation is good mid span the wire is good.

 

[John_Mc]

Cables absolutely go bad, they can corrode from the ends along the individual strands and look perfectly fine from the outside. Two examples of cables prone to failure are New Holland TC Class 2 tractor positive cables and early Ford Powerstroke positive cables.

As the owner of a 2001 NH TC33D, I can verify that statement. Due to heavy corrosion, I had my dealer cut the end off my positive cable and put a new one on when it was in for other service. A year later, I had the same problem. (I was wondering if the charging system was over-charging the battery, causing out-gassing of corrosive fumes or something. Dealer said charging system was within spec.) The corrosion on this one went back so far that I no longer had enough cable length.

I replaced the whole cable, and replaced my battery with an Optima Yellow Top. It's been over 2 1/2 years now, and no problems since then. (As a bonus, the Optima battery does not self-discharge as fast as a standard flooded lead-acid battery, so if the tractor sits for an extended period and I forgot to put my BatteryMinder on it, it's not a problem.)

NOTE: I've had very good luck with my Optima battery. However, I've heard they had some quality problems associated with their move of production to Mexico. I don't know if they have worked that out by now or not. I do know the price has jumped by 50% since I bought mine.

 

[RickB]

q

As the owner of a 2001 NH TC33D, I can verify that statement. Due to heavy corrosion, I had my dealer cut the end off my positive cable and put a new one on when it was in for other service. A year later, I had the same problem. (I was wondering if the charging system was over-charging the battery, causing out-gassing of corrosive fumes or something. Dealer said charging system was within spec.) The corrosion on this one went back so far that I no longer had enough cable length.

I replaced the whole cable, and replaced my battery with an Optima Yellow Top. It's been over 2 1/2 years now, and no problems since then. (As a bonus, the Optima battery does not self-discharge as fast as a standard flooded lead-acid battery, so if the tractor sits for an extended period and I forgot to put my BatteryMinder on it, it's not a problem.)

NOTE: I've had very good luck with my Optima battery. However, I've heard they had some quality problems associated with their move of production to Mexico. I don't know if they have worked that out by now or not. I do know the price has jumped by 50% since I bought mine.

Doubters are simply less experienced. I’ve seen enough cable failures to not bother debating.

 

[dragoneggs]

q

Doubters are simply less experienced. I’ve seen enough cable failures to not bother debating.

Okay I give...

 

[ray66v]

that's odd,, any cable can cause the problems you described it's what this thread is about LOL!
Clamp terminals have been around a long time decades even! It's a fix that can be done easily, are they perfect?,, nothing is!!
incase you haven't noticed.

No, a cable that has a terminal cast to the end is not susceptible to corrosion, like the cheap clamp on replacement.

I have considerable experience repairing vehicles, and I have actually noticed nothing is perfect.

Not trying to help those who don't want it.

Think you know better, feel free to find your for yourself.

 

[Fuddy1952]

I can tell you as a retired electronic technician 43 years wires, cables can and do fail in bizarre ways. A wire can look perfect, looking at the insulated outside and there can be a problem inside, maybe manufacturing defect, movement, etc.
Most wires we use are stranded. One thing that can and does happen is one strand breaks. Now at that point you have resistance (which equals heat). It's like having a length of 10 gauge wire with a section of 14 gauge then back to 10 gauge.
You don't notice at first but over time just like a weak spot in a water pipe it cascades. Another strand breaks, etc. Finally it breaks altogether, snowball effect and no power.
I've found breaks by securely grabbing both wire ends, pull, it stretches and breaks at the weak point.

 

[mred2]

I have had about the same problem on an older tractor of mine. I would first check the cables and connections. As noted use jumper cables to by pass the cables and connections. If that does not work, with it in neutral and being very careful, jump across the solenoid. This should tell you if it is a bad switch or a bad solenoid. I had one old tractor with a bad connection between the switch and the solenoid. I had another one that had a bad solenoid. And I have had more than one with bad connections on the cables. With a weak solenoid, It may not engage the starter all the way, or it may not supply enough voltage to the starter.

 

[mred2]

A family boat some years ago, would not start when hot. The moisture in the boat had caused the contacts on the key switch to corrode. The switch had been replaced by another family member with a switch for a car. NOT MARINE GRADE!

 

[Fuddy1952]

To me, this was what was so funny.
I went to trade school, college, read lots of books...then there's real world.
Education is fantastic, but things that happen in real world don't always fit what should happen.
One of the smartest engine builders/inventors I've ever known dropped out of grade school many years ago. He would try something and if it didn't work move forward. The thing that didn't work however he didn't write off because it may work in another application.

 

[Industrial Toys]

I would have to see an internally defective cable (NOT THE ENDS) for me to be a believer. And not from over current, mechanical fatique, or broken insulation causing corrosion. So what causes such a failure? People say they have had such a cable but don't tell of the reason.

Those battery terminals with the clamps are only good as an emergency repair.

 

[zombie]

I would have to see an internally defective cable (NOT THE ENDS) for me to be a believer. And not from over current, mechanical fatique, or broken insulation causing corrosion. So what causes such a failure? People say they have had such a cable but don't tell of the reason.

I should have saved the one I changed a couple weeks ago. Carrier transport refrigeration unit that had been looked at multiple times and had two starters thrown at it. Did a volt drop on the positive cable and it was losing 3.8 volts. Cable looked fine visually, no breaks in insulation, no damage at cable ends. Stripped insulation off and the cable inside had corrosion in multiple places throughout. Visual inspection only works on really evident problems. A volt drop test is the most accurate way to determine cable condition. Look for a max of .5 volts on positive and .3 volts on negative. Just because the cable has insulation covering it doesn't mean that it can't get moisture inside of it. There is always a bit of condensation that will form inside.

 

[Industrial Toys]

Do you think that unit saw a salt environment? I mean, that would be a game changer. But I would say it's not possible for the ends not to be corroded, if the insulation mid length was intact.

And, voltage drop, at what load?

I have a piece of 6AWG aluminum conductor sitting here on my desk making a white mess. It was installed on the ground in temporary fashion, but had some minor insulation damage, and the 110V leaked to vegetation and just totally ate the thing to bits! Not quite on topic, but interesting. Curious if anyone knows if you can use a hex crimper on insulinks.

 

[k0ua]

And, voltage drop, at what load?

At the rated load. In other words if the cable size was designed to pass 275 amps of starting current with maybe a .5 volt drop or less, then you have to assume the engineer did the math and the cable originally met that spec. When you attempt to apply the rated load that it was designed for and it drops too much voltage at that load, then by definition the cable is defective. I have seen so many that looked so good from the outside, and then you remove the jacket, and then the true nature of the degradation becomes apparent.

 

[D2Cat]

I've seen starter not turning troubles caused by lack of ground. I removed the starter and wired brushed the mounting surface of the bell housing and the starter. Engine started right up after that. Easier to put a ground cable from the starter.

 

[zombie]

Do you think that unit saw a salt environment? I mean, that would be a game changer. But I would say it's not possible for the ends not to be corroded, if the insulation mid length was intact.

And, voltage drop, at what load?

I have a piece of 6AWG aluminum conductor sitting here on my desk making a white mess. It was installed on the ground in temporary fashion, but had some minor insulation damage, and the 110V leaked to vegetation and just totally ate the thing to bits! Not quite on topic, but interesting. Curious if anyone knows if you can use a hex crimper on insulinks.

No salt environment, our company has had it since new in Clackamas Oregon. These have a four cylinder Kubota in them just for reference. The ends looked fine, cut them off of it once I stripped the cable just to check that and the wire in them looked ok. Check voltage drop with the highest load the unit will see. Typically a cranking condition, even better if you can run the grid heater or glowplugs at the same time.

What was conductor hooked to? Temporary ground in prep for a grounding rod or something?

 

[Industrial Toys]

No, it was for powering a radio shack, over very steep and wooded terrain. Not conducive to trenching or overhead service. Thirty years is temporary, isn't it?

I'm just in the process of buying a hydraulic cable crimper. I always wanted one,as opposed to borrowing one.

 

[zombie]

I suppose the argument of "nothing is permanent" would make 30 years temporary!

A guy at work just bought a harbor freight hydraulic cable crimper. I couldn't believe how nice and tight of a crimp it made on 4ga battery cable. It had dies to go from 14ga-1ga I believe. Who knows how long it will last, pretty cool nonetheless though.

 

[WranglerX]

I suppose the argument of "nothing is permanent" would make 30 years temporary!

A guy at work just bought a harbor freight hydraulic cable crimper. I couldn't believe how nice and tight of a crimp it made on 4ga battery cable. It had dies to go from 14ga-1ga I believe. Who knows how long it will last, pretty cool nonetheless though.

Yes a quality crimp is best thing for repair, just be sure to seal end of crimp to cable insulation with a oxidization preventing compound.... Over the years I have made hundreds of crimps with circumferential dies and all were requires to have oxidation preventing grease and no bare conductors showing between end of terminal and cable... In industry I retired formally all conductors from about 12ga to 750,000CM were crimped....And crimper and dies were regular tested with "go/no gauges" to ensure the quality was there...

Dale