Do battery cables go bad?

[Xfaxman]

This is the worst that I have seen.

Before:

After:

 

[Cougsfan]

After only 60 years the battery ground cable on my Ferguson went bad. It had the wires cast into the terminal ends. It still looked good. I needlessly replaced the starter first because I thought the cable looked good and that kind of cable never goes bad. I should have checked to see if it is covered under warranty

 

[k0ua]

This is the worst that I have seen.

Before:

View attachment 579338


After:

View attachment 579339

I am pretty sure that's a bad one. I think. Pretty sure...

 

[4570Man]

I’m now pretty sure this problem is a bad ignition switch. It’s throwing so many different symptoms that I really have no idea. So first off it doesn’t give much trouble in the cooler weather and I haven’t needed the truck very much so I haven’t looked much into the issue. Today I went to use the truck and it wouldn’t start, just clicking. The battery gauge was in the red at 9 volts and dropped lower when the glow plugs came on. I tried my usual up until this point fail proof plan of pushing the truck in 4th gear. Still just clicks. I went and got my jumper cables and hooked to the tractor and still clicks. I messed around with the cables some more and decided the connections were good. Still just clicks. At this point I decided to hook the cables to the starter and to the truck battery. I took every precaution on this. Truck ignition off, parking brake set, truck in neutral, and cables disconnected from battery. There isn’t much room to work at I must’ve accidentally shorted across the solenoid and the starter engaged the motor and turned it over. I crawled back out from under the truck and got in it with my jumper cables not hooked to anything and this time it fires right up and cranked fast. My batteries were obviously not dead and the gauge is wrong. Despite this long drawn out post the jumper cables weren’t hooked up for more than a couple minutes so they didn’t have a chance to charge my falsely assumed dead battery. Btw by battery I have 2 950 cca battery’s in the truck.

 

[Tractorable]

Bad battery cables can damage the flywheel teeth due to partial engagement of the starter motor gear/armature. This happened to my Toyota FJ40 because the previous owner made junky battery cables with those bolt on clamps. Replaced them with factory made cables and the truck cranks like it was brand new now.

 

[tjkubota93]

I had a 93 chevy truck that acted like that. The fuse link on the positive cable corroded in half.

 

[4570Man]

The flywheel was perfect when I changed the starter 6 months ago. The truck either clicks or engages and cranks hard. There’s no half way turning over or turning over slow crap. I really doubt it’s bad cables or the truck wouldn’t ever crank hard. Right? The batteries load test good and when the starter does hit it cranks hard so I think the battery’s are good.

 

[Fuddy1952]

In the long run, investing in a quality multimeter like Fluke is your best bet, but before spending a lot of money I would try this for less than $4, test leads and a free Harbor Freight meter.
I have a variety of meters and the HF ones are "close enough" (within a few %).
A good charged 12v battery should measure about 12.6 to 12.7V.
Meter still across battery while cranking up to about 15 seconds you should measure no less than 9.5V.
Verify this by making these tests on another vehicle that's okay.
Now...if "The battery gauge was in the red at 9 volts and dropped lower when the glow plugs came on." using the meter across battery agrees with dash voltmeter, less than 9 volts while cranking, you either have excessive current draw or bad battery. Easiest test here is simply swap in a known good battery.
Now...clip leads are useful in that you can clip from starter battery terminal to starter case ground, other end out to voltmeter where you can read it. (Two important points here 1. With wire you can make long leads several feet long, small gauge is fine...you're just measuring voltage and 2. Be 100% sure + lead cannot touch ground!).
Voltage across battery, voltage across starter should be close to equal...while cranking if over .5V less you have a bad cable.
All connections, battery, starter, engine ground,etc. has to be clean and tight. Any resistance here creates a voltage drop under load.

 

[RickB]

In the long run, investing in a quality multimeter like Fluke is your best bet, but before spending a lot of money I would try this for less than $4, test leads and a free Harbor Freight meter.
I have a variety of meters and the HF ones are "close enough" (within a few %).
A good charged 12v battery should measure about 12.6 to 12.7V.
Meter still across battery while cranking up to about 15 seconds you should measure no less than 9.5V.
Verify this by making these tests on another vehicle that's okay.
Now...if "The battery gauge was in the red at 9 volts and dropped lower when the glow plugs came on." using the meter across battery agrees with dash voltmeter, less than 9 volts while cranking, you either have excessive current draw or bad battery. Easiest test here is simply swap in a known good battery.
Now...clip leads are useful in that you can clip from starter battery terminal to starter case ground, other end out to voltmeter where you can read it. (Two important points here 1. With wire you can make long leads several feet long, small gauge is fine...you're just measuring voltage and 2. Be 100% sure + lead cannot touch ground!).
Voltage across battery, voltage across starter should be close to equal...while cranking if over .5V less you have a bad cable.
All connections, battery, starter, engine ground,etc. has to be clean and tight. Any resistance here creates a voltage drop under load.View attachment 581287

Cranking voltage at the battery of 9.5v isn’t enough to hold the majority of fuel shutoff solenoids open. Starter life will be short. 10+ volts would be MUCH more appropriate.

 

[Xfaxman]

How do you load test a cable without the battery drop ruining the test?

You start your diagnostic routine by placing the meter leads on the battery terminal posts to start with. NOT on the cable clamps on the post, but the post themselves. Have your assistant attempt to crank the starter. If you have a large voltage drop on the posts, then your battery has a high internal resistance and is likely defective. You could attempt charging the battery first before condemning it, if you think there is a reason for it to be discharged.

Then if the voltage does not drop excessively and the battery seems to be ok, put your leads on the terminal clamps themselves and test again. If you see an excessive voltage drop during the high current draw of the starter attempting to spin up, the connection between the clamps and the post are likely corroded and therefore high resistance leading to the voltage drop from the posts and clamps. Then if that is all good move on out to the other end of the cables. Testing each part of the chain, for excessive voltage drop. Of course if you find an excessive voltage drop right on the battery posts, there isn't much point in testing further down the chain until the battery is either charged, or replaced. Usually replacement.

4570Man, did you ever test the cables?

Or the starter solenoid contacts?

A voltage reading on the small wire on the solenoid will show if the ignition switch is bad.

 

[aczlan]

No, a cable that has a terminal cast to the end is not susceptible to corrosion, like the cheap clamp on replacement.

I have considerable experience repairing vehicles, and I have actually noticed nothing is perfect.

Not trying to help those who don't want it.

Think you know better, feel free to find your for yourself.

It can still get corrosion starting between the cast terminal and the insulation.

I can tell you as a retired electronic technician 43 years wires, cables can and do fail in bizarre ways. A wire can look perfect, looking at the insulated outside and there can be a problem inside, maybe manufacturing defect, movement, etc.
Most wires we use are stranded. One thing that can and does happen is one strand breaks. Now at that point you have resistance (which equals heat). It's like having a length of 10 gauge wire with a section of 14 gauge then back to 10 gauge.
You don't notice at first but over time just like a weak spot in a water pipe it cascades. Another strand breaks, etc. Finally it breaks altogether, snowball effect and no power.
I've found breaks by securely grabbing both wire ends, pull, it stretches and breaks at the weak point.

Yep, Volvo had an issue at one point with a positive cable that would corrode where it ran across the cross member under the engine. Ends were fine, but the middle would be bad.

I agree 12 volts is stupid. I think there would be a lot less problems if it was 50 volts or higher. You hardly ever see problem caused by a loose connection in a 110 volt system.

I would beg to differ...

The flywheel was perfect when I changed the starter 6 months ago. The truck either clicks or engages and cranks hard. There’s no half way turning over or turning over slow crap. I really doubt it’s bad cables or the truck wouldn’t ever crank hard. Right? The batteries load test good and when the starter does hit it cranks hard so I think the battery’s are good.

You need to put a meter on the small post on the solenoid to see how much voltage the key switch is passing to the starter.

Aaron Z

 

[Fuddy1952]

Here we go arguing.
I said "Meter still across battery while cranking up to about 15 seconds you should measure no less than 9.5V."
Yes, 10+V is better than 9.5V!
The OP said cranking the dash meter read less than 9V.
At the starter while cranking 9.5V or higher is ideal.
Yes, checking voltage at small solenoid terminal is great...rules out ignition switch.
Long test leads are useful.
I like to troubleshoot from easy/inexpensive rather than the shotgun/throw parts at it approach.
A quality meter such as Fluke I trust more than the free HF ones, but they're close. If it's off, it will be off proportionately on a known good working vehicle.
All I'm saying is troubleshoot...make voltage tests.

 

[radios1]

coat your battery connections with marine grease, and they'll never corrode again!..

 

[/pine]

...It can still get corrosion starting between the cast terminal and the insulation....

Anyone that has owned an electric golf cart etc. for any length of time can attest to the fact that cast terminals are no guarantee they will not corrode from within...

There are pages and pages of discussions about battery cables on many cart forums...one debate is whether to use heat shrink or not...the latest consensus I recall is that it is best not to use heat shrink...Also, not too long ago here on TBN there was a similar thread about terminal ends for battery cables and the best methods...i.e., crimping and or soldering etc...

 

[RickB]

Here we go arguing.
I said "Meter still across battery while cranking up to about 15 seconds you should measure no less than 9.5V."
Yes, 10+V is better than 9.5V!
The OP said cranking the dash meter read less than 9V.
At the starter while cranking 9.5V or higher is ideal.
Yes, checking voltage at small solenoid terminal is great...rules out ignition switch.
Long test leads are useful.
I like to troubleshoot from easy/inexpensive rather than the shotgun/throw parts at it approach.
A quality meter such as Fluke I trust more than the free HF ones, but they're close. If it's off, it will be off proportionately on a known good working vehicle.
All I'm saying is troubleshoot...make voltage tests.

Arguing? Really? You inferred that a minimum cranking voltage at the battery of 9.5v is acceptable. My experience is that it is not. If posting an opinion based on practical experience is being argumentative I give up.

 

[4570Man]

Once the starter actually does engage the truck cranks fast and starts easily. The battery gauge on the dash is obviously wrong. And it doesn’t fail to start every time. Most times it starts properly.

 

[Fuddy1952]

Arguing? Really? You inferred that a minimum cranking voltage at the battery of 9.5v is acceptable. My experience is that it is not. If posting an opinion based on practical experience is being argumentative I give up.

You're hung up on numbers.
No one...no one can argue with this fact, (and I speak from a little bit-43 years experience as an electronic technician...all I did was troubleshoot...I've been retired now over 4 years)
You have two similar vehicles. One cranks fine, other doesn't. Measure voltage at the battery and at the starter motor of the GOOD one. As I suggested to him, and I'll repeat, use a harbor freight meter!
It doesn't matter...and I'll repeat again...the NUMBER doesn't matter! (Now...for your satisfaction and delight we'll use instead a Fluke 117...it reads 10.497 volts at the battery while cranking).
However...the free HF one reads 10.08 at the battery, 9.72 at starter/cranking.
The HF meter is off a little...so what?????
Now check the defective vehicle. With that same HF meter he reads (cranking) 10.12 at the battery and 8.76 at starter.
See my point?!?
Yes...a quality, accurate meter, numbers are important. A free meter you're making a comparison.
All anyone needs to know, and it's simple, is what is cranking voltage at starter good vs bad with same meter.
Sheesh!

 

[Fuddy1952]

Hopefully I can help...117 replies to your starting problem and counting!
I re-read your post #1 and this last one.
I understand it's intermittent, you don't have (or I should say) want to "dump" a fortune in the dump truck.
It's probably been mentioned here somewhere but Hopefully the flywheel is ok (teeth and not bent, out of round) and starter was shimmed properly.
When it doesn't crank is the opportunity to safely, with a helper, while cranking move battery to starter and other associated wires around...see if it will crank.

 

[4570Man]

I was the one that installed the starter and it had a little shim which the directions weren’t clear on. It said to verify clearance which is impossible. I installed the starter without the shim and it started flawlessly for about 2 weeks on daily driver stats so I decided the shim probably wasn’t needed. Maybe it is.

 

[LouNY]

Most likely the shim was to move the starter drive outward away from the flywheel if it was hitting.
Many times I have found an intermediate problem to be solenoid related.