Grading Clean up and grade (?) a wooded lot with Loads-A-Rocks . . .

[jyoutz]

The rye didn't take... the turkeys cleaned it up like a starving man at a buffet. When they stumped the field a layer of topsoil came iwth it. Even before then though, the ground was so barren that I am just starting to see earthworms.

Try broadcast barley over loose soil, then dragging it to incorporate and cover the seed.

 

[mapper]

We have relatively good soil in my neighborhood, a few rocks, my property was part of a dairy farm and most of the bigger rocks were picked years ago. There is a great deal of land nearby that are glacial moraine and and areas where successive glacial events packed old moraine into a pavement like structure. In those areas trying to garden in the native soil is nearly impossible. Pick out enough rock to get clean dirt results in about an inch of soil for every foot deep of rocks!
I have used annual rye for years as a cover crop, I spread the seed then run the tiller through the top inch of soil to hide it from the birds. For the last couple of years we have been using fava beans as well for cover crop. They fix a lot of nitrogen and the stems break down quickly when turned under.
This year with a late wet spring the cover crops were about 3 feet tall, I had to mow them down with the lawn tractor before turning them under.

 

[LouNY]

I don't know the exact composition of the dirt in the Marbletown area but I would be surprised if a rock bucket would be
worthwhile trying to use.
It would be expensive but once the trees are removed a dozer with rippers can run through it and loosen the rocks up,
and break up the soil a bit then when it gets try you could try a skeleton rock bucket with large spacing between the tines
to get the large rock.
Screening much of the dirt in New York requires a powered screen to break up all the clods of dirt and separate the rocks.
If you screen over 3 " you might be successful but it will take a high powered screen with some clod breakers.

 

[JWR]

Hey there Joe a 99-- having read the last 21 posts I am wondering if you are "barking up the wrong tree"... so to speak. Extremely rocky ground in a woods is going to be a major challenge in terms of a garden.

We don't have a lot of info to go on. Need more I think in order to 'pontificate effectively.' Picture maybe ? Any chance of buying an acre or maybe just a strip adjacent to you with enough space for the garden? That might be a tradeoff against the cost of clearing. It takes generations to convert really rocky woods to a garden spot and, even then, you may end up with shade that defeats the purpose.

I'm thinking you can hire someone to clear enough space for an outbuilding (some guy nearby with a small dozer and/or an excavator) in less than a day's time. That would leave you with a more practical task of moving a few rocks around, sawing up the remains of the trees, etc. Then, as others said, have a layer of suitable filler put in for the building site. Who knows, if it is that rocky the existing ground left after it is cleared might be suitable for laying concrete? You have a "pole barn" in mind?

Seems to me if you can get a strip of ground for the garden that is a game changer.

 

[gwhizz63]

Might not be a good title or the right forum, but, got about between 1, 2 acres of treed land behind the house. Soild is VERY rocky with stones of all sizes, some pretty hefty. Trees of all sizes and varieties.

The intent is to be able to put up an out building for work and storage and, maybe, make an area suitable for a small food garden plot.

Already been cutting down some of the saplings on up to 8" or so and cutting them stove length. I've had some old timers tell me to just drop 'm and leave 'm till the leaves brown up, then cut as they would then be ready to burn in the fall. That's a tale for another day.

I found digging out roots with a normal bucket to be almost a fool's errand. It's only a B21 after all. But, I did some internet digging and found BXpanded that makes a "ripper tooth" for about $300. Finally got around to using it and, after a bit of practice find it works every bit as well as the maker and the comments claim. Almost fun now.

Gotta be careful as a lot of the trees are very close and no doubt have interlocked roots. But that's not really why I'm here today.

The unpleasant surprise has been the far greater number of rocks than imagined. The bigger ones, say over a foot wide, I just try to move off to the side for now. A bit dicey with the tooth as I am fearful of bending it if not careless.

Guess the question really comes down to ways to clear a lot of the smaller stuff out? Not to "topsoil" grade, but reasonable to where you could stick in a spade or shovel and not hit a rock every time.

I've seen static screen units where you dump on top of a slanted screen and let gravity be your friend. Even those are very pricey, to me. Tractor has a 4 in 1 bucket and I was thinking of making a temporary screen out of rebar I have lying around, to fit the bucket, allowing it to scoop then open wide sift and dump. Not thought that out yet, may not by practical given the geometry(s) involved.

So, looking for comments and suggestions.

I have the problem of rock and clay soil here in the Hill Country of Texas. To make my garden area l dug down about a foot with my backhoe which wasn't easy and using some scrape steel roofing made a 2 ft wall around it attached to 4x4 post. I then had 2 truckloads of grow mulch dumped in. The whole thing cost less than $1000 and have been enjoying fresh vegetables ever since. Wall keeps the critters out too.

 

[alpha&omega]

Raised beds might be best, but I have always been put off by wooden sides. Was wondering about putting some of these rocks and boulders to use in that way.

Wood sides (4x4 or 4x6), old post and beams, or RR ties can all be used so long as you don’t allow the dirt to come into contact with your soil. You don’t want those pressure treated chemicals or that creosote killing your plants or you for that matter.
I mentation this because you can easily cover the face of your beds with anything you want - metal siding, bricks, rocks, or even the stucco stone.
If that doesn’t do it for you, I’ve built “raised” beds for people using tractor tires stacked on top of each other with metal fence “T” posts driven into the ground to keep the tires from shifting. Holes were drilled into the tires and the posts went through them. We then ran wire between the posts and in one area it went between two beds. The wire was used for beans and other climbing veggies.
The other method I have done for customers in the past was using cement blocks. In similar fashion “T” posts were used in the corners and rebar was used in other areas. Some of which were extra long pieces to not only drive into the ground, but to help reenforce the concrete mix and to act as an area by which wire/rope could be tied off. For that project we built four of the beds in a perfect rectangle shape to accommodate the owners later adding a “greenhouse” to their garden. Which was basically long pieces of pvc pipe running from one corner (over top the “T” post) and then curved to the opposite corners post. I think we ran 8 or 10 pieces of PVC and then had two 10’ sections that were used to roll the plastic “greenhouse” cover over the pvc and two more pieces on the opposite side. Doing it that way helped to hold down the plastic as well as allowing both sides to be rolled up to a whatever designated height they chose. This allowed better airflow and/or protected based off the wind direction and earths location in relation to the sun.

Hopefully one of these ideas helps to inspire you or someone else who might read this. Mind you…not one of these projects were done in the city. So don’t feel like you’re losing any of your country ways doing things like this. You are actually better off with raised beds, because you can better regulate your soils pH, temps and chemistry. It’s also a heck of a lot easier to water and keep clean/free of weeds. Best regards…

-adam

 

[joea99]

. . .

Hopefully one of these ideas helps to inspire you or someone else who might read this. Mind you…not one of these projects were done in the city. So don’t feel like you’re losing any of your country ways doing things like this. You are actually better off with raised beds, because you can better regulate your soils pH, temps and chemistry. It’s also a heck of a lot easier to water and keep clean/free of weeds. Best regards…

-adam

Food for thought. Gotta factor in some kind of robust fencing as well. Around here the deer and other critters can take a garden down to the roots overnight. They ain't shy at all.

At this point I'll be planning for next year, looks like.

 

[joea99]

I have the problem of rock and clay soil here in the Hill Country of Texas. To make my garden area l dug down about a foot with my backhoe which wasn't easy and using some scrape steel roofing made a 2 ft wall around it attached to 4x4 post. I then had 2 truckloads of grow mulch dumped in. The whole thing cost less than $1000 and have been enjoying fresh vegetables ever since. Wall keeps the critters out too.

I doubt 2 ft will keep the deer out, but, gives me a potential use for those old steel sheds I need to tear down. Might be too thin for the job.

 

[M59]

I doubt 2 ft will keep the deer out, but, gives me a potential use for those old steel sheds I need to tear down. Might be too thin for the job.

Joea99,

I made sides for raised beds from plastic wood that gets sold for decking. Used the corrosion rated deck screws ( ceramic coating? ) to fasten ot all together. Never rots out and doesn't leach chemicals into garden soil. Had beds in place for 20+ years until we moved and then I disassembled them and took the plastic boards to new house. The only issue is the plastic wood is not as stiff as real lumber so I supported the sides along span every 4-5 feet. Split a 6 inch board in half and screwed halves together and then cut a point onto it and drove it into ground next to raised bed and screwed raised bed side to the new post.

Use fencing taller than 5 feet because white tail deer can jump over 5 feet from a stand still. They love brussel sprouts and wouldn't leave garden until I got with 20 feet.

 

[jyoutz]

Food for thought. Gotta factor in some kind of robust fencing as well. Around here the deer and other critters can take a garden down to the roots overnight. They ain't shy at all.

At this point I'll be planning for next year, looks like.

I had to build a 8’ deer fence around my garden and orchard.

 

[Jstpssng]

I had to build a 8’ deer fence around my garden and orchard.

I haven't done it yet. This is the first time in well over a decade that I've had deer around, but they found me this year. Two fruit trees and my peas are gone so far. I have a 3 joule fence charger which runs off 12 volts, but it's going to take a lot of posts to go around everything.

 

[M59]

I haven't done it yet. This is the first time in well over a decade that I've had deer around, but they found me this year. Two fruit trees and my peas are gone so far. I have a 3 joule fence charger which runs off 12 volts, but it's going to take a lot of posts to go around everything.View attachment 751872

Back when you get it, before it was outlawed, we would wrap a rag around a stake and soak the rag with creosote and place then 30-50 feet apart. Deer would not cross the line to get into the garden.

Perhaps it is time to start using the crop damage permit and to hang some venison up.

 

[Jstpssng]

Back when you get it, before it was outlawed, we would wrap a rag around a stake and soak the rag with creosote and place then 30-50 feet apart. Deer would not cross the line to get into the garden.

Perhaps it is time to start using the crop damage permit and to hang some venison up.

They don't allow that for home gardens. I found that out when 40 turkeys showed up and picked the 200 lbs of rye seed I sowed clean.

 

[joea99]

Back when you get it, before it was outlawed, we would wrap a rag around a stake and soak the rag with creosote and place then 30-50 feet apart. Deer would not cross the line to get into the garden.

Perhaps it is time to start using the crop damage permit and to hang some venison up.

There are some really foul smelling concoctions sold by "natural" garden supply outfits made from rotten eggs and some other stuff that was pretty effective.

Forget the name, but tried one once, years ago around the house on some ornamental plants they loved. Stank so bad had to keep the windows closed. And needed to reapply once it rained.

 

[jyoutz]

I haven't done it yet. This is the first time in well over a decade that I've had deer around, but they found me this year. Two fruit trees and my peas are gone so far. I have a 3 joule fence charger which runs off 12 volts, but it's going to take a lot of posts to go around everything.View attachment 751872

Good luck with that. I tried motion activated sprinklers, electric fencing, baited electric fencing, and double electric fencing. Nothing worked. Finally I gave up and built an 8’ field fence. That worked.

 

[M59]

They don't allow that for home gardens. I found that out when 40 turkeys showed up and picked the 200 lbs of rye seed I sowed clean.

I don't know the rules for NY, but in NC any land in excess of 10 acres is titled as farmland unless declared otherwise. Rural areas have minimal laws applied and are one of the reasons I moved from CT to NC & TN. I attached pic of wild turkeys that don't seem to care I am 20 feet from them BUT they all must watch the calendar since they dissapear just before Thanksgiving. I counted more than 20 that flew in for breakfast.

 

[Egon]

There are some really foul smelling concoctions sold by "natural" garden supply outfits made from rotten eggs and some other stuff that was pretty effective.

Forget the name, but tried one once, years ago around the house on some ornamental plants they loved. Stank so bad had to keep the windows closed. And needed to reapply once it rained.

mercaptan may be an alternative???

 

[alpha&omega]

Good luck with that. I tried motion activated sprinklers, electric fencing, baited electric fencing, and double electric fencing. Nothing worked. Finally I gave up and built an 8’ field fence. That worked.

I have some good “fencing” that will keep those cute button bucks from the first photo at bay. If I’m not mistaken it’s pronounced .308 and 30-30. Usually only takes one try and they won’t ever bother coming back. We have that problem on occasion, but most of ours have grown wise over the years. Although there is that occasional piece of white “tail” that will get them active during the day.

 

[gwhizz63]

I doubt 2 ft will keep the deer out, but, gives me a potential use for those old steel sheds I need to tear down. Might be too thin for the job.

I used black deer netting mounted on pvc pipe to keep deer out.

 

[Fastowl]

I have large piles of topsoil piled up after scraping the topsoil off a building site a few years ago. This topsoil is full of rocks and I am using the topsoil for ground preparation around another site on the ranch. I estimate the unsifted 'dirt' is about 30+% rocks ranging from 3/4 inches to more than 1 foot in diameter.

I had seen a number of the slanted racks for separating the rocks from the soil but it required me to weld up a frame and attach a screen(s) to it to separate. Instead what I did was use some old 2x10's I had laying around, built two frames that I sandwiched one on top of the other with a small overlap (the smaller frame frame is on the bottom with a small overlap) and plywood corner triangular braces for strength. Between the two boxes I attached some bull wire (for strength) and covered it with hardware cloth . The larger frame becomes the dumping box, the bottom is really just to support the wire screens and to get a gap under the top frame and the grade. The whole contraption is about 8 feet by 3 feet and about two boards tall less overlap,

To use the contraption I fill the top compartment with my FEL from my JD 5075 and then I pick up the box contraption with my bobcat fitted with forks. I bounce the boxes up and down with the bobcat and after it just has rocks remaining I go dump the rocks in a big pile by tipping the box contraption. After about 3-4 loads of dirt/rocks I scoop up the sifted dirt and move it the final destination. I can do about 14-20 FEL loads of dirt an hour this way. Cost me nothing in materials as it was all surplus stuff from around the ranch. The sifted dirt is virtually rock free and quite usable for the garden/lawn area.