48x39x14 shop build

[ovrszd]

T-shirt, mid winter with that size of building? Huge success!

Thanks Mike.

I've been neglecting the wood stove a bit in my old shop. So the propane forced air is doing most of the work. After I spend most of the day in radiant heat and go home to forced air heat the first thing I notice is humidity. It's higher in the old shop. Propane heat adds humidity.

 

[dstig1]

Truckdiag - The system you show is very complex and covers both DWH and radiant in a combined system and pretty clearly uses a boiler. Thus the need for the heat exchanger for that whole set of radiant loops.
The exchanger is there because you do not want the gycol going through a tankless boiler or any boiler for that matter. Once again your system working proves that it will work without. You have stated that hard water is the route to all evil in a tankless boiler system. We are saying gycol coming in direct contact with the heat exchanger in the tankless boiler may very well play a bigger roll in tankless boiler failures. He(son) seems to think that the direct contact is causing the gycol to break down. That has been my sons experience and he has replaced a lot and re-piped and installed the exchangers. The buffer tank he did not want to explain or maybe couldn't all I got was a 40 gal electric hot water heater is cheap, why not use it.... I'm not convinced you need it with a tankless boiler and I will not be using one in the barn addition.

"Typical Radiant Heat Floor System Operating Temperatures. Typical radiant floor systems operate at 85 - 125 ｰF water temperature entering the tubing, and put the floor surface temperature about 5 degrees above the room thermostat set temperature."
We googled it your water temps seem high especially for your home. I can see higher temps for a shop where you get times of high heat lose. 120 still seems high. My son and I discussed this at length also, a system could be designed for those temps. IMO at those temps it will cause a feeling of on and off or warm and cold in the home and therefore not get the true benefit of what radiate heat has to offer. 80-90 degree water circulating through a concrete slab should keep a home toasty warm, such that you never know it is there. Giving you the true benefit of radiant heat. With radiant heat you can actually set the thermostat lower than with forced air.

Except that I have nice even heat with no real hot spots, and no up and down temp swings in either building. Like I said before, it works...:drink:

 

[ovrszd]

Except that I have nice even heat with no real hot spots, and no up and down temp swings in either building. Like I said before, it works...:drink:

Thanks for your posts here Dave. I'm learnin.

 

[Rustyiron]

I studied that too. I'm not sure I fully understand it but, here's my take. You are still switching the system off and on with a thermostat. The sensor is either hanging on the wall or in a conduit embedded in the concrete.

With a wall thermostat you are referencing room temp. A number that is familiar to us all. Adjust until comfort is attained.

With a concrete embedded thermostat you are measuring concrete temp. Adjust until the desired room temp is attained.

I was unable to learn why the concrete embedded method would be any better? Still relying on room comfort to make adjustments.

Hopefully someone with more knowledge and experience can chime in with more complete information?

Richard I have these slab sensors, they monitor both the air & slab temps. I paid for a radiant design company for the design work (and I squeak when I walk) and that's what they spec'd out. I can see where one could really "tweek" their settings with these fancy Tekmar t-stats. The shop will not call for heat when I open a door and pull in a frozen snow covered tractor, but I mostly set it and forget it and would not loose sleep over them. In your house they may be nice but I know your slab in. My last shop had hanging Modine LP heaters and all the heat went up to the 16' ceilings. Put on the ceiling fans to blow it back down resulted in a cold draft feeling as the shop (without the fan breeze) was comfortable @50-60*. You'll love your radiant if you don't already. Think of your slab as a heat "flywheel". Slow to speed up but hard to slow down. Everything looks fantastic:thumbsup:

 

[ovrszd]

Richard I have these slab sensors, they monitor both the air & slab temps. I paid for a radiant design company for the design work (and I squeak when I walk) and that's what they spec'd out. I can see where one could really "tweek" their settings with these fancy Tekmar t-stats. The shop will not call for heat when I open a door and pull in a frozen snow covered tractor, but I mostly set it and forget it and would not loose sleep over them. In your house they may be nice but I know your slab in. My last shop had hanging Modine LP heaters and all the heat went up to the 16' ceilings. Put on the ceiling fans to blow it back down resulted in a cold draft feeling as the shop (without the fan breeze) was comfortable @50-60*. You'll love your radiant if you don't already. Think of your slab as a heat "flywheel". Slow to speed up but hard to slow down. Everything looks fantastic:thumbsup:

I'm liking it more every day. It's such a change. Like you described. Thanks for the compliment Eric.

 

[ovrszd]

Okay Electrical, Radio Frequency geeks, got one for you.

I'm using High Bay 4ft, 6 bulb, ballast controlled, T5 flourescent light fixtures.

I'm using Liftmaster model MT5011U openers on my overhead doors.

I'm using Liftmaster 893 Max remote controllers.

When the light are on my range is horrible. Horrible as in you have to touch the controller on the door glass when standing outside.

When the lights are off I have 100ft range outside.

I'm open (pun intended) to any and all suggestions or experiences.....

 

[skipperbrown]

Get a handheld am/fm radio, put it in am mode, pull out the antenna, walk around and see if one fixture makes more noise than the rest. Pull the bulbs on that one and see if it helps. If they all make noise, consider different fixtures or live with it.

 

[ovrszd]

I have tested the opener with the light fixtures on one at a time. Each of them individually cause the problem.

I find it impossible to believe I'm the only person who has ever used these openers in a building with these lights. So something unique is happening.

Living with it is unacceptable.

 

[Citydude]

Have you tried a different setting on your opener? If I remember right, mine had different settings in case my fob opened my neighbors door.

 

[ovrszd]

Have you tried a different setting on your opener? If I remember right, mine had different settings in case my fob opened my neighbors door.

I've got an earlier version of this opener in my current shop. It has a row of dip switches so the frequency can be changed. These do not.

I mentioned that to the Liftmaster person on their tech support line. They immediately responded that these new openers don't need that feature.....

 

[Citydude]

I've got an earlier version of this opener in my current shop. It has a row of dip switches so the frequency can be changed. These do not.

I mentioned that to the Liftmaster person on their tech support line. They immediately responded that these new openers don't need that feature.....

Dang....

 

[ovrszd]

My supplier loaned me three different controllers to try. All had same result.

Definitely a frequency issue.

 

[Citydude]

I've got an earlier version of this opener in my current shop. It has a row of dip switches so the frequency can be changed. These do not.

I mentioned that to the Liftmaster person on their tech support line. They immediately responded that these new openers don't need that feature.....

That's a bummer. That was my best shot at a solution. Hope you find one.

 

[EddieWalker]

I find it impossible to believe I'm the only person who has ever used these openers in a building with these lights. So something unique is happening.(

Did you put a metal ceiling in your shop?

 

[ovrszd]

Did you put a metal ceiling in your shop?

Yes. Lights are hanging on chains 6" below ceiling. Used 3 wire 8ft pigtails that plug into duplex outlets. Each light has it's own outlet.

 

[ovrszd]

Just now took one fixture down from ceiling, plugged it into wall socket, leaning against wall. Turned off ceiling lights. Got 20ft range outside. Took down second fixture and plugged it in. Back to zero range outside. Had to touch controller to door glass. Unplugged lights. Got 80ft range.

 

[EddieWalker]

Since this is such a unique problem, I'm wondering if the metal ceiling is causing an issue? Metal ceilings in barns isn't very common, so the odds of others having this issue are remote.

 

[ovrszd]

Since this is such a unique problem, I'm wondering if the metal ceiling is causing an issue? Metal ceilings in barns isn't very common, so the odds of others having this issue are remote.

I originally bought into the metal interference issue.

But now when I can get good range by turning off the lights I have let that one go. Final proof was taking down two lights and leaning them against the wall and killing my opener.

Around here it's hard to find a shop building that doesn't have a metal ceiling. My old shop is an all metal building.

Certainly seems to be a Radio Frequency Interference issue. Just searching for a solution.

Jarid has the same openers, metal ceiling. Not sure what lights he's gonna have though. Anxious to see how his works.

 

[Rustyiron]

I've got both fluorescent and LED lights, they both mess with AM & FM radio reception. I've never put 2 and 2 together about my chitty performance on my 8500? liftmaster remotes although 99% of the time the doors are used during daylight hours so the lights are out.

edit, In fact I was just talking to my electrician cousin this past weekend, he was telling me about all the rf interference that they have to deal with now, don't remember if wifi is another source.

 

[Wood_Butcher_Dav]

Do you have a power strip with line conditioner or isolation transformer to try? My tool battery charger causes FM radio to loose signal, plugged charger into power strip and issue went away with the radio while charging batteries. Are lights, wall outlet and openers on same 110 leg?

Dave