48x39x14 shop build

/ 48x39x14 shop build
  • Thread Starter
#201  
I'm not sure if that is a good heat system for here in MO where it is 0 degrees one day, 80 the next, and then 20 the day after that! :)

I kid though, I wish we would have added that to our basement when we built.

Ther verdict is still out for me. I'll have an opinion by the end of Winter.
 
/ 48x39x14 shop build #202  
I have heard it said that in floor heat, and especially in slab heat doesn't cycle temps very well at all, precisely because of the big delay. But if you just pick a temp and leave it, then they work well.

I don't notice that big a difference when we put radiant in the kitchen, for me it was a way to put a door where one baseboard was under a window, and a fridge and cabinet where the other baseboard was. I do think the heat is more even than the baseboards since by design it runs longer at lower temperatures and isn't cycling as much. It did require a mixing valve added to the furnace to keep the cold return water from shocking the hot water for the other loops. I gather that doing all radiant would be both simpler on the mechanical side (retrofitting the rest of the floors would be a pain however) and more efficient, since the boiler would only have to provide water at one temp.

My wife says she definitely notices not having cold feet anymore, and aging lab is often on the only padded surface in the kitchen, the mat by the back door. I keep checking if she's there because she wants to go out, like in summer, but she's there because she's comfy (there's a dog door). The Aussie with his heavy coat is never on it, always picks the coldest surface inside or out.
 
/ 48x39x14 shop build
  • Thread Starter
#203  
If doing your home in different zones try and make them match your floor plan. Just finished our basement and have the in-slab heating. It is done in three zones and the heating contractor installed a thermostats I. Three separate locations. Well my room layout matched so that I have a thermostat in the gym, guest room and common area. What I am finding now is the floor temp doesn稚 match the rooms even remotely. I think they must have just did the basement in 3rds. I am seriously thinking of wiring all three zones together off the common area thermostat.
As for the shop gaining temp during the day could that just be solar heat gain? The other day it was -20 Celsius outside and windy, but very sunny. The temp I the house gained a degree throughout the day and the heat never ran once.

I am considering zones in the house. Bedrooms and baths are in one area. Living area at other end. Maybe split to match that? If zoning particular attention needs to paid to loop routing. And loops need identified at the control area.

I'm day three now and still haven't heard it run. I'm sure it's cycling at night when I'm not here. Temp is 68 this morning without outside temp of 18F. Sunny and no wind. Curious to see what it does today. I'll have the overheads open storing house building materials in shop.
 
/ 48x39x14 shop build
  • Thread Starter
#204  
I have heard it said that in floor heat, and especially in slab heat doesn't cycle temps very well at all, precisely because of the big delay. But if you just pick a temp and leave it, then they work well.

I don't notice that big a difference when we put radiant in the kitchen, for me it was a way to put a door where one baseboard was under a window, and a fridge and cabinet where the other baseboard was. I do think the heat is more even than the baseboards since by design it runs longer at lower temperatures and isn't cycling as much. It did require a mixing valve added to the furnace to keep the cold return water from shocking the hot water for the other loops. I gather that doing all radiant would be both simpler on the mechanical side (retrofitting the rest of the floors would be a pain however) and more efficient, since the boiler would only have to provide water at one temp.

My wife says she definitely notices not having cold feet anymore, and aging lab is often on the only padded surface in the kitchen, the mat by the back door. I keep checking if she's there because she wants to go out, like in summer, but she's there because she's comfy (there's a dog door). The Aussie with his heavy coat is never on it, always picks the coldest surface inside or out.

I have the water heater set at 120F degrees. Hopefully the installer will show up today and we'll discuss everything. I really think it's me getting used to it rather there being anything wrong. :)
 
/ 48x39x14 shop build #205  
I am considering zones in the house. Bedrooms and baths are in one area. Living area at other end. Maybe split to match that? If zoning particular attention needs to paid to loop routing. And loops need identified at the control area.

I'm day three now and still haven't heard it run. I'm sure it's cycling at night when I'm not here. Temp is 68 this morning without outside temp of 18F. Sunny and no wind. Curious to see what it does today. I'll have the overheads open storing house building materials in shop.

A typical Austrian build will have a lot of zones... bedrooms are always coldest... with bath the warmest... this is because warmth combats the natural humidity of bathrooms... the entry and foyer have a zone... as does the living room...

The bathrooms almost always have a loop to the bath towel rack... speeds drying.

A lot of the system have an aux coil in the wood fire ovens... this allows some heating just from the kitchen stove... other wise the boiler is oil or propane.
 
/ 48x39x14 shop build
  • Thread Starter
#206  
Yesterday I had one overhead open for 15-20 minutes. By the time I finished and shut the door the system was running. Within 2-3 minutes it shut off. Only kicked on because cool air made it to the thermostat. The shop temp would have recovered just as quickly without that short run.

Dusty showed up yesterday evening and we discussed everything. He lowered the heater temp to 115F. Said when it gets colder might benefit from turning it back up to 120F but try it at that lower temp. His idea is to increase run time and warm the concrete at a slower rate. This allows the heat to reach the thermostat and shut if off withou getting the concrete so warm. This might help stabilize the temp fluctuations.

He gave me the final bill. Heater cost $1188. He charged me $350 labor. Pump and all the fittings brought the total to $2,300. He had quoted me $2,400. I paid him $2,350.
 
/ 48x39x14 shop build #207  
I’ve read that you should use a probe inside the concrete to control the room temp, not a wall hung thermostat.
 
/ 48x39x14 shop build
  • Thread Starter
#208  
I’ve read that you should use a probe inside the concrete to control the room temp, not a wall hung thermostat.

I studied that too. I'm not sure I fully understand it but, here's my take. You are still switching the system off and on with a thermostat. The sensor is either hanging on the wall or in a conduit embedded in the concrete.

With a wall thermostat you are referencing room temp. A number that is familiar to us all. Adjust until comfort is attained.

With a concrete embedded thermostat you are measuring concrete temp. Adjust until the desired room temp is attained.

I was unable to learn why the concrete embedded method would be any better? Still relying on room comfort to make adjustments.

Hopefully someone with more knowledge and experience can chime in with more complete information?
 
/ 48x39x14 shop build #209  
Been gone a while so just catching up, really looks great Richard.
 
/ 48x39x14 shop build
  • Thread Starter
#210  
Thanks Bryan!! Been missin ya.
 
/ 48x39x14 shop build #211  
We have 5 different zones in our house and I love it! It's not radiant floor heat, so not apples to apples, but having different zones is amazing. I work from home, and my office is in the basement. I only have to heat/cool that room of the basement and it makes things much more comfortable. In the summer, the A/C would never run in the basement if it wasn't zoned separately due to the cooler temps in the rest of the basement. But with a couple monitors, a PC, and 4 windows on the west side of the house, it would be pretty warm in there. It stays nice and cool being zoned seperately. In the winter, I only heat that room of the basement since I'm the only one home during the day.

Our zones are:
1) Main living/kitchen area plus 2 kids' bedrooms/bath
2) Master bed/bath
3) Entire basement minus office - this is almost never on
4) Sun room - another must for a separate zone to keep it from being too hot or cool due to having so many windows
5) Basement office

It's great being able to kick our bedroom down a few degrees during the summer for better sleeping without needing to cool the rest of the house to 72 degrees.
 
/ 48x39x14 shop build
  • Thread Starter
#212  
We have 5 different zones in our house and I love it! It's not radiant floor heat, so not apples to apples, but having different zones is amazing. I work from home, and my office is in the basement. I only have to heat/cool that room of the basement and it makes things much more comfortable. In the summer, the A/C would never run in the basement if it wasn't zoned separately due to the cooler temps in the rest of the basement. But with a couple monitors, a PC, and 4 windows on the west side of the house, it would be pretty warm in there. It stays nice and cool being zoned seperately. In the winter, I only heat that room of the basement since I'm the only one home during the day.

Our zones are:
1) Main living/kitchen area plus 2 kids' bedrooms/bath
2) Master bed/bath
3) Entire basement minus office - this is almost never on
4) Sun room - another must for a separate zone to keep it from being too hot or cool due to having so many windows
5) Basement office

It's great being able to kick our bedroom down a few degrees during the summer for better sleeping without needing to cool the rest of the house to 72 degrees.

What type of heat do you have?

The house I've lived in for 40 years is heated with elecgric baseboard. Thermostat in every room. I really like having that choice.
 
/ 48x39x14 shop build #213  
Richard the problem with a wall mounted thermostat is opening a door or something, and the cold air cooling the thermostat making the heat come on for no reason..
 
/ 48x39x14 shop build
  • Thread Starter
#214  
Richard the problem with a wall mounted thermostat is opening a door or something, and the cold air cooling the thermostat making the heat come on for no reason..

I totally agree!!!

The flip side would be the adjustment to figuring out concrete temp to get the desired room temp. This would change with the seasons.
 
/ 48x39x14 shop build
  • Thread Starter
#216  
I don’t think it would be that hard..

I agree.

Was hoping someone using that method would chime in.

To get more informational discussion I probly should have started a separate thread about this.
 
/ 48x39x14 shop build #217  
very nice shop.

I see one big problem thought - you built it on the wrong property...it should be in my yard! LOL
 
/ 48x39x14 shop build #218  
Nah I think it pertains to this thread.

How would you change it now anyways?
 
/ 48x39x14 shop build #219  
How well does floor heat work?

I've worked in shops with forced air of all kinds, not bad.
Worked with radiant heat - I hate it. I understand why,but don't like it. Our indoor gun range has it because the exhaust fans would make forced air impractical, but you end up on fire at the head/neck area and everything else is still cold.

I would think heating a slab of concrete would be pricey - impractical to turn it on when needed so you'd leave it on all the time - and that would be pricey. Does it heat the area above the floor at all? Tools, tables, etc?
 
/ 48x39x14 shop build #220  
I totally agree!!!

The flip side would be the adjustment to figuring out concrete temp to get the desired room temp. This would change with the seasons.

I know Ed put a piece of conduit in my concrete so that he could add a probe instead of a thermostat, but when I discussed it with him he didn’t really clarify which one he was going to end up with. Might be neat to have it in the concrete on mine just so we could compare notes.
 

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