Outdoor Circuit Breaker Question

[jrdepew]

I am planning on putting a subpanel in the garage at some point to run power to a yet-to-be-built shop out back. The current garage is attached and is where the current breaker box sits. My main breaker however is mounted outside near the panel in one of these:

Eaton 2-Amp Enclosed 2-Pole Outdoor Circuit Breaker-ECCVH2R - The Home Depot

My question is...could a second one of these 200A outdoor main breaker boxes be added next to the first, or is there a 2-main breaker version of this box available? If either of those is OK, it would make running power to the shop much easier, as the subpanel in the garage could be fed from the outdoor main breaker box, not from the garage box.

Clear as mud? :laughing:

Thanks,
Joe

 

[LouNY]

Is your transformer sized for 400 amps?
Is your feed wire rated for 400 amps?
I would expect that neither is, so no you can't, it would need to be quite the shop to need a 200 amp feed.
If your shop is going to need that much it will be time for a separate feed or going to a 400 amp service $$$$$$$$

 

[jrdepew]

Is that how it is calculated? I would likely run a 100A sub to the garage, but never get anywhere near using it all.

Ideally, I could put a 100A sub-panel with just the main for the shop in right next to the 200A main breaker box. Then bury conduit to the shop, and put my sub-panel in there.

 

[jrdepew]

On a related note...they way they wire houses now sure is interesting...everything gets its own breaker!

Garage door opener gets its own breaker
Doorbell transformer gets its own breaker

I get some of the other appliances getting their own breaker, but some of these seem a little out there...My 3bed 2.5bath house has 29 out of 30 breaker slots filled. To be fair, we do have electric range, HVAC, dryer, etc that eat up a lot of doubles.

 

[LouNY]

Put a 100 or 125 breaker in your existing box.
Then bury conduit to the shop, and put your sub-panel in there as you said.

 

[grsthegreat]

no you cannot just add a second one of those. each would be required to be fed from transformer with its own circuit. you could however change your existing 200 amp main breaker with this 200 amp panel with a feed thru 200 amp circuit and 8 space subpanel like this






in this case its an eaton panel, about 110 bucks at lowes
with this setup you can feed the 200 thru to house and then run a 100 amp to shop/garage without upgrading service to 400 amps

 

[jrdepew]

The existing panel in the garage? Or the existing Main Breaker box near the meter?

Here is a block diagram of what I have in black, and what I would like to add in red. I would like to do what is on the left, as it will be a much simpler install. This would require another box to be added on the outside of the house near the meter. I believe that this would need to be fed from the 200A main breaker I have already, as the service is sized to that breaker.

On the right was my original plan, but it will require running the wire to the shop to be longer and more convoluted(through garage ceiling and wall, etc).



Thanks,
Joe

 

[jrdepew]

no you cannot just add a second one of those. each would be required to be fed from transformer with its own circuit. you could however change your existing 200 amp main breaker with this 200 amp panel with a feed thru 200 amp circuit and 8 space subpanel like this



View attachment 532772


in this case its an eaton panel, about 110 bucks at lowes
with this setup you can feed the 200 thru to house and then run a 100 amp to shop/garage without upgrading service to 400 amps

Thanks! I was typing my last response as you responded...this makes sense and is what I figured. I was just wondering if there was an easier way for me.

-Joe

 

[grsthegreat]

Thanks! I was typing my last response as you responded...this makes sense and is what I figured. I was just wondering if there was an easier way for me.

-Joe

not as far as i can tell. ive been an electrical contractor for many years, and this is how i would do it. mine you it would only take me an hour to swap these out.

 

[RNeumann]

The existing panel in the garage? Or the existing Main Breaker box near the meter?

Here is a block diagram of what I have in black, and what I would like to add in red. I would like to do what is on the left, as it will be a much simpler install. This would require another box to be added on the outside of the house near the meter. I believe that this would need to be fed from the 200A main breaker I have already, as the service is sized to that breaker.

On the right was my original plan, but it will require running the wire to the shop to be longer and more convoluted(through garage ceiling and wall, etc).

View attachment 532775

Thanks,
Joe

I’m a little confused by what you are trying to do. But if I’m seeing this right you have the 200a Eaton main breaker and that goes to the house and you also want power to the shop? I’m guessing the main breaker is somewhere in between the house and shop.
The easiest solution is to shut the 200a main breaker off, run wire to a little load center that has two breakers in it- one for the house and one for the shop. From there reattach power to the house on the new house breaker and then run your power to the shop via the second breaker. It will be a fairly straightforward fix/solution.

Btw- their is no breaker sizing restrictions with regards to the “down stream” panels. In other words your 200a main breaker can feed two breakers- say 200a to the house and 100a to the shop. No reason to oversized though- it just adds cost and difficulty.

 

[RNeumann]

One more note- a 200a breaker isn’t very common. They will cost as much as the panel. Price the panel and breakers instead of just the panel.

 

[Tractor Seabee]

LouNY nailed the solution. That is how I would do it. That is your right hand diagram solution. Less complicated also, no meter to pull to do the work. That way your shop circuits are downstream from the main breaker which has a higher fault current rating. Don't try to figure fault current out; it will drive you crazy unless you are an electrician. It is important though, but less so in residential services.

Ron

 

[grsthegreat]

Btw- their is no breaker sizing restrictions with regards to the “down stream” panels. In other words your 200a main breaker can feed two breakers- say 200a to the house and 100a to the shop. No reason to oversized though- it just adds cost and difficulty.

i dont understand this statement. are you saying you want to feed two separate panels from one breaker? theres no way to get 2-4/0 cables under one lug. maybe im misunderstanding your statement

 

[RNeumann]

i dont understand this statement. are you saying you want to feed two separate panels from one breaker? theres no way to get 2-4/0 cables under one lug. maybe im misunderstanding your statement

I’m not suggesting multiple wires under one lug- I appreciate the follow up to clarify.
So the OP has a 200a service and breaker somewhere in his yard between the house and new shop. I’m suggesting he add a second panel in the yard so he can then “split” the main/service. In the second panel he would have 2 breakers- a 200a going to the house and a 100a going to the shop. Even though the 2 breakers add up to more amps than the main breaker their is no code preventing this- in fact it’s common. I’m sure if you counted up the amps/breakers on your home’s panel this would be the case.

With my recommended solution he doesn’t have to pull the meter or involve the utility.

The comment about 200a breakers was just a word of caution. It’s worth researching because one setup vs another (even the same brand) could cost him hundreds of dollars and a lot of aggravation trying to find a 200a breaker.
One poster suggested a panel that may work- if it had lugs at the bottom of the panel to take the house it could be an economical choice.

 

[grsthegreat]

I’m not suggesting multiple wires under one lug- I appreciate the follow up to clarify.
So the OP has a 200a service and breaker somewhere in his yard between the house and new shop. I’m suggesting he add a second panel in the yard so he can then “split” the main/service. In the second panel he would have 2 breakers- a 200a going to the house and a 100a going to the shop. Even though the 2 breakers add up to more amps than the main breaker their is no code preventing this- in fact it’s common. I’m sure if you counted up the amps/breakers on your home’s panel this would be the case.

With my recommended solution he doesn’t have to pull the meter or involve the utility.

The comment about 200a breakers was just a word of caution. It’s worth researching because one setup vs another (even the same brand) could cost him hundreds of dollars and a lot of aggravation trying to find a 200a breaker.
One poster suggested a panel that may work- if it had lugs at the bottom of the panel to take the house it could be an economical choice.

ah..ok i get it now. same thing i was suggesting but with my idea he would replace the 200 amp breaker. your idea adds the new panel in between ...both would work. i personally always remove tho old one because since im pulling a electrical permit anyways, the utility pulls the power off for free, and re-energizes again for free. if theres room next to the existing 200 amp eaton switch, he can add an additional panel

 

[LittleBill21]

no you cannot just add a second one of those. each would be required to be fed from transformer with its own circuit. you could however change your existing 200 amp main breaker with this 200 amp panel with a feed thru 200 amp circuit and 8 space subpanel like this



View attachment 532772


in this case its an eaton panel, about 110 bucks at lowes
with this setup you can feed the 200 thru to house and then run a 100 amp to shop/garage without upgrading service to 400 amps

with this design. doesn't this now make the original main panel a sub panel now? so now all the neutrals and grounds need to be on separate bus bars? and the main ground moved to this pass through panel( just learned about pass through lug panels)

 

[RNeumann]

ah..ok i get it now. same thing i was suggesting but with my idea he would replace the 200 amp breaker. your idea adds the new panel in between ...both would work. i personally always remove tho old one because since im pulling a electrical permit anyways, the utility pulls the power off for free, and re-energizes again for free. if theres room next to the existing 200 amp eaton switch, he can add an additional panel

I have one utility that we do everything to avoid and another that is great. Hopefully he (and it sounds like you) has a good one to work with.
And hopefully he has the time to do the meter R&R on the same day- hopefully within a few hours.

 

[grsthegreat]

with this design. doesn't this now make the original main panel a sub panel now? so now all the neutrals and grounds need to be on separate bus bars? and the main ground moved to this pass through panel( just learned about pass through lug panels)

as you already have a main breaker,,, the panel is already considered a subpanel. this changes nothing.

 

[grsthegreat]

I have one utility that we do everything to avoid and another that is great. Hopefully he (and it sounds like you) has a good one to work with.
And hopefully he has the time to do the meter R&R on the same day- hopefully within a few hours.

its very simple to pull off the old switch and replace it. sometimes you have to extend the feeders, but very rarely do i need to do that.

 

[powerscol]

Put a 100 or 125 breaker in your existing box.
Then bury conduit to the shop, and put your sub-panel in there as you said.

Ditto on this, but first check with you local electrical inspector. I found them to be a great help when I rewired my house from 100 amp service to 200 amp service. I put a 100 amp breaker in the house and ran conduit to the garage and set a sub panel. Plenty of power for my shop needs including a future welder. Where I live the homeowner can do the work with a permit. Don't forget that not getting it inspected may void you homeowners insurance in case of fire.