Free electricity !

[RobertBrown]

Wow!
That's a lot of real estate. I don't think that's house current leaking but, I would sure like to know what the heck is going on. 50 volts is 50 volts.

 

[Tomtint]

Wow!
That's a lot of real estate. I don't think that's house current leaking but, I would sure like to know what the heck is going on. 50 volts is 50 volts.

And every house that you can see in the pic is hot... They all register about the same 50+/- volts.

 

[3930dave]

If your local utility is snoozing, I'd say it's time to escalate this to the State level.

As much as I prefer to see the Eng's and Tech's solve things, if they aren't getting the job done, it might be time to consider the legal implications of this situation.

This needs to get fixed, before there is a fatality.

Why not throw-down a gauntlet to the brainiacs at MIT ? Challenge 'em to solve this as a class project !

Rgds, D.

 

[Redneck in training]

Every user or generator of electric energy such transformer, motor, power line leaks energy to the ground due to imperfect insulation. AC devices also leak due to capacitance and inductance. The intensity in general decreases with cube of distance unless there are two devices passing energy from one to another. Then the energy flow concentrates to a "channel" between the source and the "user". It looks like your house sits on such a channel. It might also mean that the underground material is less conductive than the top that the source and the user are large devices and/or you are close to the source. My bet is that you are close to transmission line or power generator or large substation that has bad ground leakage. Typically the generators in power station are relatively low voltage that is them transformed to very large voltage. The generator is always conected to the primary transformer by a cable that can be in cable tray or underground. So there is significant potential for a leakage greater than normal. There should be installed devices that monitor the leakage but they might not be installed properly or be faulty.
In other words if that is the case I would be talking to the owner of the device(s) or equipment ASAP. They can harm or kill somebody and the leakage costs them money in lost energy. In the meantime I would suck as much power from it as I could (just kidding).

 

[buickanddeere]

Every user or generator of electric energy such transformer, motor, power line leaks energy to the ground due to imperfect insulation. AC devices also leak due to capacitance and inductance. The intensity in general decreases with cube of distance unless there are two devices passing energy from one to another. Then the energy flow concentrates to a "channel" between the source and the "user". It looks like your house sits on such a channel. It might also mean that the underground material is less conductive than the top that the source and the user are large devices and/or you are close to the source. My bet is that you are close to transmission line or power generator or large substation that has bad ground leakage. Typically the generators in power station are relatively low voltage that is them transformed to very large voltage. The generator is always conected to the primary transformer by a cable that can be in cable tray or underground. So there is significant potential for a leakage greater than normal. There should be installed devices that monitor the leakage but they might not be installed properly or be faulty.
In other words if that is the case I would be talking to the owner of the device(s) or equipment ASAP. They can harm or kill somebody and the leakage costs them money in lost energy. In the meantime I would suck as much power from it as I could (just kidding).

I have worked over two decades in power generating stations. Anything your are hinting at would have tripped the ground fault detectors at milli-amps instead of at hundreds of amps.

 

[Redneck in training]

I have worked over two decades in power generating stations. Anything your are hinting at would have tripped the ground fault detectors at milli-amps instead of at hundreds of amps.

I don't work for power generating or power distributing industry. But I commission control systems for steam turbines and other rotating things for living. I remember several cases that control systems were damaged (one actually caught fire) when instrument technician grounded wires from a sensor without insulating them while pulling them from the sensor housing.
In one particular case (when the controller burned) I lifted the wires from the terminals and then sent the tech back to the field to ground the wires. Then I measured the voltage and frequency and got 60 Hz and about 50-60V. Thinking that 50-60 V on high impedance is nothing unusual I switched my meter to current and attempted to measure current between the ground in the field and the ground at the rack room. When I closed the loop I instantly blew 10A fuse in the meter and lost about 1/4 of my lead point. Later investigation revealed that the grounding system was completely corroded gone. Grounding rods ended just below the asphalt or concrete. The cause of the corrosion was some kind of fault in the large transformer or motor causing large ground current. I believe what you are saying but things are not always installed, monitored or maintained right.

 

[Dishpointer]

My bet is that you are close to transmission line or power generator or large substation that has bad ground leakage.

I believe that this is the problem. His house is about 1500 feet away from some high power transmission lines to the south and about 1/2 mile away from a big substation to the west-southwest. I would get the power company and the state involved to get this resolved as this is a major safety concern.

 

[Redneck in training]

I believe that this is the problem. His house is about 1500 feet away from some high power transmission lines to the south and about 1/2 mile away from a big substation to the west-southwest. I would get the power company and the state involved to get this resolved as this is a major safety concern.

View attachment 372459

I looked it up on Google Earth. Follow the power line to the east. If I am not mistaken there is a power generator by the ocean. Then connect the substation on the west and the generator on the east by a line. Your neighbor's house is almost exactly on the line and yours is not too far south. The utility can put a clamp meter on the grounding wire(s) on the transformer at the power station and see what current is going through there. They can do the same at the substation.

You can also put a swimming pool in the ground so its long axis coincides with current flow. Make sure that it has good galvanic contact with surrounding soil (in example by stainless steel plates connected to extensive network of grounding rods put on each end). The current will keep it somewhat warmer extending your swimming season. You might need to wear special insulation suit so you don't get electrocuted while swimming.

 

[buickanddeere]

There are instances with these neutral bonds to earth raising the ground system potential. Is to completely isolate the customer side neutral from the utility neutral. Only have one bond to the secondary neutral at the customer's first breaker/service panel. Float the neutral away from ground at any and every out building, sheds, pony panels etc. Every ground from every building, shed and panel on the customer's side needs to be bonded together .
Over head three wire triplex services to out building are a real menace and contribute to tingle voltage. If the neutral is bonded to the ground at the remote shed. Underground four wire or over head four wire costs a little more but eliminates many problems.
There are real problems however with most lay persons and even some electricians. As to what ground is, what a neutral is and how they are used.
I agree that there is probably an open neutral between the two utility infrastructure sites.

 

[ENC]

Any update ?

 

[strum456]

I have nothing to add really, but I am looking forward to hearing more about this! Keep us posted.

 

[Tomtint]

I have not had a chance to go out with the IR camera yet. I'm not really even certain what I would be looking for. But maybe this weekend I will head out and take some pics to post

 

[dodge man]

Please keep us updated. Its an interesting story. I have a degree in engineering but its civil engineering and AC power and how it works baffles me.

 

[jamesdorn]

We had the same problem here in NJ and it turned out the ground wire from the nearest transformer pole was cut where in goes down the side of the pole into the ground. It took a lot of people getting jolted and a guy with a pacemaker and a little girl in a wadding pool almost died before the power company fixed it.

Stay on it, before someone gets hurt or killed.

 

[MT Kioti]

I am a licensed electrician and retired electrical inspector. What you are experiencing is not unheard of and is well documented if you know where to look. This is definitely a problem with the power company, not some mis-wired water heater, phone company or cable TV. They have a problem with a high voltage conductor on one side of you (and your neighbors) and it is trying to make its way back to a transformer or substation on the other side of you. These two locations could be some distance apart - several miles or more. This situation can be very dangerous. The reason that you are able to feel the electrical current is because YOU are a better conductor than the ground. So is every other animal. Cattle are especially susceptible to currant leakage. It will effect their health, and they will avoid entering buildings where it is present.

It is very important that everyone avoid swimming or entering bodies of water. Human bodies are a better conductor than water, and since electricity will travel through you easier through you, it will. And it take an amazingly small amount of current to paralyze you. Then you drown.

Call the power company. Demand action. Power companies often do not like to admit a problem or spend the necessary resources to find it. Engage all of your neighbors as well. Make as much fuss as you can. This can be a expensive problem to find, but it is only likely to get worse until someone dies.

Look here for more information from one of the smartest people in the industry:
Mike Holt Stray Voltage Articles

 

[teejk]

I am a licensed electrician and retired electrical inspector. What you are experiencing is not unheard of and is well documented if you know where to look. This is definitely a problem with the power company, not some mis-wired water heater, phone company or cable TV. They have a problem with a high voltage conductor on one side of you (and your neighbors) and it is trying to make its way back to a transformer or substation on the other side of you. These two locations could be some distance apart - several miles or more. This situation can be very dangerous. The reason that you are able to feel the electrical current is because YOU are a better conductor than the ground. So is every other animal. Cattle are especially susceptible to currant leakage. It will effect their health, and they will avoid entering buildings where it is present.

It is very important that everyone avoid swimming or entering bodies of water. Human bodies are a better conductor than water, and since electricity will travel through you easier through you, it will. And it take an amazingly small amount of current to paralyze you. Then you drown.

Call the power company. Demand action. Power companies often do not like to admit a problem or spend the necessary resources to find it. Engage all of your neighbors as well. Make as much fuss as you can. This can be a expensive problem to find, but it is only likely to get worse until someone dies.

Look here for more information from one of the smartest people in the industry:
Mike Holt Stray Voltage Articles

In addition to what you mentioned, stray voltage has been found to decrease milk production in cows where it's present! But the bigger factor is that you are describing abnormal "line-loss" that the utility's customers end up paying for. I think every state has something like a public service commision that over-sees the utilities. Maybe it's unique to my neck of the woods but there is "no love lost" in that relationship. I would start there.

 

[John_Mc]

Can't get the link to the Mike Holt Stray voltage articles to work. Is it just me, or are others having trouble? (I've had some internet issues lately, but other sites seem to be loading OK)

 

[bullbreaker]

I am a licensed electrician and retired electrical inspector. What you are experiencing is not unheard of and is well documented if you know where to look. This is definitely a problem with the power company, not some mis-wired water heater, phone company or cable TV. They have a problem with a high voltage conductor on one side of you (and your neighbors) and it is trying to make its way back to a transformer or substation on the other side of you. These two locations could be some distance apart - several miles or more. This situation can be very dangerous. The reason that you are able to feel the electrical current is because YOU are a better conductor than the ground. So is every other animal. Cattle are especially susceptible to currant leakage. It will effect their health, and they will avoid entering buildings where it is present.

It is very important that everyone avoid swimming or entering bodies of water. Human bodies are a better conductor than water, and since electricity will travel through you easier through you, it will. And it take an amazingly small amount of current to paralyze you. Then you drown.

Call the power company. Demand action. Power companies often do not like to admit a problem or spend the necessary resources to find it. Engage all of your neighbors as well. Make as much fuss as you can. This can be a expensive problem to find, but it is only likely to get worse until someone dies.

Look here for more information from one of the smartest people in the industry:
Mike Holt Stray Voltage Articles

Yes Sir it happened bout 5 days ago in Miami, Fl -

Swimming Pool Safety: Electrocutions Raise Alarm Before Summer - NBC News

 

[3930dave]

Can't get the link to the Mike Holt Stray voltage articles to work. Is it just me, or are others having trouble? (I've had some internet issues lately, but other sites seem to be loading OK)

I was able to open the Mike Holt page, and open 6 or so pdfs listed there, just now.

Thanks for posting that link MT.... lots of good reading there :thumbsup:

Rgds, D.

 

[fireman671]

Hi, I am a fire investigator and have seen similar conditions caused by a bad ground (sometimes loose, sometimes corrosion) Open neutrals can also do crazy things. You should have it looked at ASAP! It is a big fire hazard as well as possible electrocution. You probably have no or little ground protection when using appliances.