Natural gas?

[Sigarms]

What size tank did you buy just for your cooktop?

I can tell you this on my end, with 3 90%+ gas furnaces in our current home with a direct vent hot water heater (gas), our first year in our home we had our 500 gallon tank filled up 3 times during the winter months here in NC (LP was even a lot cheaper back then).

I got tired of that fast, so the next year I dual fueled that attic system the next year with a 80% VS furnace, and that following winter I was down to only using 2 tanks during the winter.

Couple of years later, straight heat pump on the main floor with a indirect gas fireplace insert for back up heat, and that got us down to about a tank and half during the winter time.

I just dual fueled the basement couple of weeks ago because the AC wasn't working (don't need it below grade) but put a new system in because the realtor suggested it (made sense) and I'll be using less LP this upcoming winter, letting the heat pump handle most of the heating needs down stairs, but left the existing Trane gas furnace because it runs like a champ so I left it for the blower).

I still need to replace the attic system, not certain what I'm going to go with, but it will be on the cheaper end because the job itself is a royal PITA up there.

 

[Sigarms]

Geothermal probably makes more sense farther north where I'm at.

Honestly, Geothermal makes more sense where ever you live IMO if you can afford it or do it yourself.

 

[Torvy]

What size tank did you buy just for your cooktop?

We planned ahead for a generator, so it's a 250 gallon tank.

 

[ning]

FWIW, next time a quick rinse with carb cleaner and cycling the valve usually works to restore the solenoid to normal. Propane has heavier hydrocarbons in it and in my experience over time they can build up on the inside of pipes and valves.

The solenoid was embedded in the entire valve assembly and it was allegedly "non-serviceable" and while that's rarely stopped me before, the fact that I found the tapping method and a new valve assembly was hundreds of dollars made me loathe to mess around with it. I'm happy to take apart a diagram-less thing to attempt a fix if there's no cheap alternative, but this wasn't the case

 

[ponytug]

The solenoid was embedded in the entire valve assembly and it was allegedly "non-serviceable" and while that's rarely stopped me before, the fact that I found the tapping method and a new valve assembly was hundreds of dollars made me loathe to mess around with it. I'm happy to take apart a diagram-less thing to attempt a fix if there's no cheap alternative, but this wasn't the case

Oooh. One of those. Yeah, I carefully disassembled one of those. Once. I would go along with the "non-serviceable" rating. Mine had a tiny leak in the control diaphragm.

For mine, I found a no name valve at a small, small percentage of the OEM valve that worked fine for the following decade.

All the best, Peter

 

[ning]

Oooh. One of those. Yeah, I carefully disassembled one of those. Once. I would go along with the "non-serviceable" rating. Mine had a tiny leak in the control diaphragm.

For mine, I found a no name valve at a small, small percentage of the OEM valve that worked fine for the following decade.

All the best, Peter

The year it died the solenoid sticking was getting to be often enough (ie, I was being woken up at 0500 by my wife saying "there's no hot water!" - luckily the water heater was such a monster that it made the water hot enough for a shower in about 10 minutes) that I was going to bite the bullet and either fix it or break it (and thus expect to replace the heater) but one day water coming out of that closet left me with no choice. It was perfect timing as my wife was going to a music camp for the next week so I was able to order everything (supply house dot com is amazing) and learn how to sweat copper and have it ready for her return; luckily a very strong son was home to help move the old tank because heavy barely touches it

 

[t1kilo]

End of the day, down the road, would prefer a tankless gas water heater. We have a pump at the furthest run to the master bath in our current home and we've both been very happy with it (and given that it's just myself and wife now, no doubt we shouldn't exceed the flow rate if sized properly and undersize it if we can get away with it).

The issue is for the free gas hook up, I've got to install a gas furnace. Since the future house is slightly less than 1,700 sq feet, would go with a 2 stage 96% and two stage heat pump (used primarily for heating). Luckily with the unfinished basement, I have plenty of room for a up flow system where as in most homes in NC, you're really stuck for space dealing with a crawl space or small attic (have an attic in our current home and it's not even fun to change the air filter).

Gas furnace may not even come on using that heat pump. If I didn't work in the HVAC industry, probably would use a single stage gas furnace. It's not going to cost me a whole bunch more to go with a dual fuel system vs straight heat pump (electric).

Originally my wife mentioned she would love a gas stove vs the old electric counter top she's been using for the last 20 years in the current home. Going to mention about an induction stove as well and she can pick whatever she wants. End of the day though, although the current electric water heater may not come out right away, but when it does come out, we can use gas.

The future home has a fireplace, but that room is laid out separate from the kitchen bedrooms and bathrooms in the home and we're still trying to figure out what to do with the fireplace. Doesn't make much sense to add money for a added fuel source to utilize the fireplace for really only one room.

Probably go with electric on the dryer. Only thing we have to change there is a hall to the room with the fireplace is basically going to be used. That hall is going to disappear and there will only be one way into the room with the fireplace. Both bathrooms are going to be enlarged using that hall space (believe me, master bath is SMALL where the secondary bath is at least twice the space) and we will be using a under and over washer and dryer to use in a portion of the hallway that is going to disappear. Current washer and dryer in the basement in the future home and that is one thing we don't want. Whole idea is to make our lives easier as we get older, and the basement washer and dryer is what finally made my dad come to live with us when he couldn't do his clothes anymore when he fractured his back.

With regards to the fireplace, this is what we did in our new house. First, the attic space is insulated with closed cell foam on the rafters. I did a standing seam metal roof, so leaks should not be a problem. Second, we don’t have a centralized return for hvac. Instead, each room has x number of registers for air coming from the plenum, and an equal number of registers for return air to the attic. Essentially, my entire attic is the return, and it’s the same temp as the interior of the house.

For our fireplace, we did a direct vent propane insert. When it’s really cold outside, we fire up the fireplace and turn the fans on. We also turn the hvac unit fan on recirculate. As the heat rises in the room with the fireplace, the hot air is pulled into the “return duct” (attic) and circulated through the house. Works pretty good for us.

I will say that I have an ICF house, so the thermal mass tends to help as well. Our average electric bill over the past six years is $160. We have 10k heat strip in the hvac system and use conventional ac. A single 3 ton unit heats and cools 2400 square feet. We keep the thermostat on 72 on warm days and 74 on the cold ones. That electric bill includes an apartment in the barn with a 3 head mini split that my daughter is currently occupying, my shop, water well, a small greenhouse, and aerator for the pond.

 

[kenmac]

this house I bought was all elec. I had local gas co out. They said they would run the line to my home (400ft) off the road free if I installed a gas WH.
I had to pipe the house up for gas and purchased a tankless and installed it.
I had intensions of installing a gas furnace but got a deal on a VRF, so I went with it instead of gas furnace. I now have the gas tankless WH, gas logs and gas dryer.
When the elec. range goes, it will be replaced with gas.

I have since also piped gas to the second story and installed a space heater up there just incase

 

[MapleLeafFarmer]

So the dumb question is there any reason why not to use natural gas if it's available?

I didn't read every post (and I am based in Canada) I thought most of the US is moving towards banning the continued use of gas? <<California, New York, Massachusetts, Colorado, Oregon, Maryland, Maine, New Jersey, and Rhode Island, Washington State and Vermont, etc.. can up after quick internet search>> with changes and gas limits coming quicker every year it seems.

In our national newspapers we are reading every day now that almost 20% of the natural gas used in the US has historically come from Canada but is no longer wanted so being tariff heavily and new pipe lines / pipeline maintenance requests being turned down. This has led to a large Federal push in Canada for fast track approvals and government funding of infrastructure to instead send this gas east to europe and west to asia. just a few weeks ago a new national law was passed here to allow fast tracking of these projects preventing protesters and provinces from stalling these plans to ship east / west versus south. Signed / sealed and delivered Bills C-5 (One Canadian Economy Act), Bill 15 (Infrastructure Projects Act), and Bill 5, aim to fast-track and fund infrastructure and resource projects to get gas, oil, lumber, steel, aluminum, and wood products as these exports to US is causing a lot of hate in Washington.

Would this not be a concern going forward????

personally i love our gas heating and cooking appliances. (wife is professional chef capable and this spring we ran a second 1" line to the house to feed a new 300,000 btu gas stove) This spring we doubled the pipe size to our place from the main line as our prices are dropping now that US doesn't want it anymore.

 

[Sigarms]

this house I bought was all elec. I had local gas co out. They said they would run the line to my home (400ft) off the road free if I installed a gas WH.
I had to pipe the house up for gas and purchased a tankless and installed it.
I had intensions of installing a gas furnace but got a deal on a VRF, so I went with it instead of gas furnace. I now have the gas tankless WH, gas logs and gas dryer.
When the elec. range goes, it will be replaced with gas.

I have since also piped gas to the second story and installed a space heater up there just incase

I'll need to check into that. The impression I got was that I needed to heat the home with gas, thus my line of thinking of dual fuel, and I never thought of water a primary source of heat unless it's a boiler or geo.

My primary reason for gas was for two reasons, gas tankless, gas stove (wife seems on intent on gas top and perhaps convection oven) and possible converting a wood fireplace to gas fireplace.

I'll need to check with the gas company on that. Plenty of time at this point though.

 

[kenmac]

I'll need to check into that. The impression I got was that I needed to heat the home with gas, thus my line of thinking of dual fuel, and I never thought of water a primary source of heat unless it's a boiler or geo.

My primary reason for gas was for two reasons, gas tankless, gas stove (wife seems on intent on gas top and perhaps convection oven) and possible converting a wood fireplace to gas fireplace.

I'll need to check with the gas company on that. Plenty of time at this point though.

At first, I asked if the gas dryer would be ok ,and they said no, that wasn't a large enough load for them to install the line at N/C . I asked about a WH and they said that would work.
They gave me $300 toward the tankless which isn't much on a tankless but it beat zero .

 

[Torvy]

I didn't read every post (and I am based in Canada) I thought most of the US is moving towards banning the continued use of gas? <<California, New York, Massachusetts, Colorado, Oregon, Maryland, Maine, New Jersey, and Rhode Island, Washington State and Vermont, etc.. can up after quick internet search>> with changes and gas limits coming quicker every year it seems.

In our national newspapers we are reading every day now that almost 20% of the natural gas used in the US has historically come from Canada but is no longer wanted so being tariff heavily and new pipe lines / pipeline maintenance requests being turned down. This has led to a large Federal push in Canada for fast track approvals and government funding of infrastructure to instead send this gas east to europe and west to asia. just a few weeks ago a new national law was passed here to allow fast tracking of these projects preventing protesters and provinces from stalling these plans to ship east / west versus south. Signed / sealed and delivered Bills C-5 (One Canadian Economy Act), Bill 15 (Infrastructure Projects Act), and Bill 5, aim to fast-track and fund infrastructure and resource projects to get gas, oil, lumber, steel, aluminum, and wood products as these exports to US is causing a lot of hate in Washington.

Would this not be a concern going forward????

personally i love our gas heating and cooking appliances. (wife is professional chef capable and this spring we ran a second 1" line to the house to feed a new 300,000 btu gas stove) This spring we doubled the pipe size to our place from the main line as our prices are dropping now that US doesn't want it anymore.



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Your chart shows the opposite. Most of the states are pushing back on limiting gas use. Only our far-left states try to limit human progress.

If they truly wanted to go green, they would fast track the use of nuclear reactors thus building up enough clean power to actually meet future demands. Then, and only then, could you reasonably try to phase out coal, oil and gas electricity production.

Until you have the clean electricity production, it's rather silly to prohibit the local use of clean, efficient NG or LP gas heat and heat related appliances.

When the US was using Canadian NG, it is largely due logistics. It is closer for some states (NE) to import from Canada than from PA or other gas-rich states. The US has vast NG reserves (about 8x those of Canada).

The 'problem' with exporting NG is that pipelines are by far the most effective way to transport it. Selling to Europe or Asia becomes cost prohibitive in many cases.

 

[dnw64]

Our NJ house came with Nat Gas at the road, but no service. I wanted to put in a standby generator, and since there was gas at the street and no existing LP tank I put in an inquiry.

Even though I told them that ATM I only plan to hook up a standby genset, they would put the gas in for free-to-me and $4k-to-them... I said go for it, but make sure the system is set for heat, as the 20 year old oil furnace will be being replaced with gas in the next 5-10 years.

Side note: the house came with an almost brand new super-fancy GE electric (duh...) range. Our current main house has separate gas (LP) cooktop and electric convection oven. We love the gas cooktop, so I was considering replacing the range with a dual fuel model. However, after reading a lot of reviews about the induction cooktops I decided we're going to stick with the one that's there for now. It's a slide in, so easy enough to change out if we decide we don't like it. All our cookware is ferrous anyway, so no changes needed there.

 

[Dftodd]

I didn't read every post (and I am based in Canada) I thought most of the US is moving towards banning the continued use of gas? <<California, New York, Massachusetts, Colorado, Oregon, Maryland, Maine, New Jersey, and Rhode Island, Washington State and Vermont, etc.. can up after quick internet search>> with changes and gas limits coming quicker every year it seems.

In our national newspapers we are reading every day now that almost 20% of the natural gas used in the US has historically come from Canada but is no longer wanted so being tariff heavily and new pipe lines / pipeline maintenance requests being turned down. This has led to a large Federal push in Canada for fast track approvals and government funding of infrastructure to instead send this gas east to europe and west to asia. just a few weeks ago a new national law was passed here to allow fast tracking of these projects preventing protesters and provinces from stalling these plans to ship east / west versus south. Signed / sealed and delivered Bills C-5 (One Canadian Economy Act), Bill 15 (Infrastructure Projects Act), and Bill 5, aim to fast-track and fund infrastructure and resource projects to get gas, oil, lumber, steel, aluminum, and wood products as these exports to US is causing a lot of hate in Washington.

Would this not be a concern going forward????

personally i love our gas heating and cooking appliances. (wife is professional chef capable and this spring we ran a second 1" line to the house to feed a new 300,000 btu gas stove) This spring we doubled the pipe size to our place from the main line as our prices are dropping now that US doesn't want it anymore.



View attachment 4060589

I had to look it up, but never knew that Vermont had a natural gas line. Vermont usually does follow California on it's loonyness.

I know the city of Burlington banned all gas powered lawn and landscaping equipment. Can't even run a generator if the power goes out without risking a fine.

 

[ultrarunner]

It’s not only California… other states claim they also know best.