Starting your tractor in the winter.

[RoyJackson]

Even though my tractor was plugged in all night at ten below this morning it wouldn't run right. Spent the whole day getting it right. Local mom and pop store has diesel so gelled up they can't pump it. I had at least ten gallons of their fuel in the tank. Your block heater doesn't do anything to keep the fuel in the tank warm. When taking off the fuel filter to flush it with diesel 911, I found I wasn't even getting fuel from the tank to the filter hense the problem. I ended up putting a drop light right under the bottom of the tank where the fuel line leaves to thaw it out. Once I had fuel to the filter and did the bleeding process it started right up.

I'm surprised the Ma and Pa shop didn't have winterized diesel.
Glad you got your tractor started!
Did you get what you needed from Trottier's?

 

[MHarryE]

Is the info in this thread accurate? My question concerns glow plugs heating the air in the combustion chamber. That is not what the major glow plug suppliers say they do. They say that one turn of the engine expels any heated air. Manifold heaters do supply heated air, but glow plug suppliers talk about their glow plugs provide a hot spot to ignite the fuel/air mixture when compression alone does not raise the air temperature enough. I am not sure if the chart I gave tried to attach will show but it is Bosch's glow plug heating chart showing how their glow plug heats to maximum temperature in about 4 - 5 seconds and then drops off a bit but always stays well above the temperature needed to ignite a diesel/air mixture. The reason for the drop off is if the glow plug remains heating at the maximum rate it will quickly burn out so modern high quality glow plugs automatically drop current flow once maximum heat is obtained.

This is the glow plug type we used on our small (less than 7 liter) Cat engines when we changed from the manifold heater to glow plugs with Tier 3. Maybe the Asian suppliers have a different technology but when you think of the heated air being exhausted before it even gets a chance to be used in an injection cycle it is difficult to understand.

Grid heaters and fuel fired manifold heaters do heat the incoming air but I have not seen a glow plug supplier claiming they heat the air. I have, however, seen the glow plug suppliers talk about rapid heating to provide the ignition point. In fact the best (also most expensive) Bosch and BERU glow plugs heat so fast they claim you can just start your car like normal. The plugs will do their job by the time the engine cranks over.

So a, I totally mistaken and Asian tractor glow plugs work differently than American and European diesels?

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct...vI2G2HRjhBikBeZZ0oxl7h7Q&ust=1387176228495384

 

[vtsnowedin]

Roy Jackson;
Yes they fixed me right up on the scv fitting and diesel 911 but I should have bought a fuel filter while I was there and didn't think of it. I need another gallon of Hyguard so will pick it up when I stop to get that.

 

[check]

Is the info in this thread accurate? My question concerns glow plugs heating the air in the combustion chamber. That is not what the major glow plug suppliers say they do. They say that one turn of the engine expels any heated air. Manifold heaters do supply heated air, but glow plug suppliers talk about their glow plugs provide a hot spot to ignite the fuel/air mixture when compression alone does not raise the air temperature enough. I am not sure if the chart I gave tried to attach will show but it is Bosch's glow plug heating chart showing how their glow plug heats to maximum temperature in about 4 - 5 seconds and then drops off a bit but always stays well above the temperature needed to ignite a diesel/air mixture. The reason for the drop off is if the glow plug remains heating at the maximum rate it will quickly burn out so modern high quality glow plugs automatically drop current flow once maximum heat is obtained.

This is the glow plug type we used on our small (less than 7 liter) Cat engines when we changed from the manifold heater to glow plugs with Tier 3. Maybe the Asian suppliers have a different technology but when you think of the heated air being exhausted before it even gets a chance to be used in an injection cycle it is difficult to understand.

Grid heaters and fuel fired manifold heaters do heat the incoming air but I have not seen a glow plug supplier claiming they heat the air. I have, however, seen the glow plug suppliers talk about rapid heating to provide the ignition point. In fact the best (also most expensive) Bosch and BERU glow plugs heat so fast they claim you can just start your car like normal. The plugs will do their job by the time the engine cranks over.

So a, I totally mistaken and Asian tractor glow plugs work differently than American and European diesels?

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct...vI2G2HRjhBikBeZZ0oxl7h7Q&ust=1387176228495384

WOW! This is some revelation! What say you, fellow Tractorbyneters?

 

[MHarryE]

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/...mkYGx9adYjKpFXgzA9FKN-ALao-Xo241nWurCoJNo6zsn

The attached picture shows several different diesel cold start aids. On the right is the type of manifold heater used by older Perkins, Allis-Chalmers, and other engines. They have a heating coil that both opens a fuel orifice that sprays fuel into the intake manifold where it is ignited by that same heating coil. This type has been used on lots of different brand large commercial diesels. It is difficult to control emissions properly so now other heater types are used such as the grid manifold heaters. Both the fuel fired and grid heaters heat the combustion air.

Glow plugs do heat air but the air is that immediately surrounding the glow plug during each compression stroke. Glow plugs are optimized for either indirect injection or direct injection. Remember that the Diesel cycle differs from the Otto (gasoline engine cycle). Diesels ingest a full cylinder of fresh air with each stroke - needed for the compression to get the air up to ignition temp. Then only enough diesel fuel is injected. The glow plugs are in this stream so they can heat the small amount of air where some of the fuel is sprayed starting the flame front.

If you read up on glow plug history from the different manufacturers you will see that a problem with older designs is that people tend to overuse the glow plug (turn it on for an excessive period of time) which results in burned out glow plugs. The newest (probably meaning most expensive designs) are self controlling.

Watch the attached glow plug video to see how the tip heats. The air heated immediately surrounding the glowing tip is enough to start the fire.

DieselRx Glow Plug Comparison - YouTube

 

[RaydaKub]

If you read up on glow plug history from the different manufacturers you will see that a problem with older designs is that people tend to overuse the glow plug (turn it on for an excessive period of time) which results in burned out glow plugs. The newest (probably meaning most expensive designs) are self controlling.

I had a 1985 6.2 GMC. It was a poor starter. I hot wired in a starter solenoid and manually kicked in the glow plugs a few more seconds and that sure helped. But I heard (after burning them out) that because GMC wanted them to start easier they actually used 6 volt plugs and used a thermostat on them to prevent burning them out. But they were worthless. It had to be plugged in below 20 degrees or it might not go.

 

[Katahdin]

Even though my tractor was plugged in all night at ten below this morning it wouldn't run right. Spent the whole day getting it right. Local mom and pop store has diesel so gelled up they can't pump it. I had at least ten gallons of their fuel in the tank. Your block heater doesn't do anything to keep the fuel in the tank warm. When taking off the fuel filter to flush it with diesel 911, I found I wasn't even getting fuel from the tank to the filter hense the problem. I ended up putting a drop light right under the bottom of the tank where the fuel line leaves to thaw it out. Once I had fuel to the filter and did the bleeding process it started right up.

If you have any Irving stations near you I suggest buying your fuel from there, all of their diesel is refined for winter use.

 

[vtsnowedin]

If you have any Irving stations near you I suggest buying your fuel from there, all of their diesel is refined for winter use.

Good idea. Thanks

 

[Egon]

If you have any Irving stations near you I suggest buying your fuel from there, all of their diesel is refined for winter use.

Be carefull on that assumption. In some cases it may be the nearest refinery or one that has a supply.

 

[TomSeller]

Diesel 9-1-1 intended to de-ice fuel lines. Anyone use it?

http://www.powerservice.com/d911/

Does anyone use the white bottle year-round? I notice the link says to use it only in cold weather.

http://www.powerservice.com/dfs/

 

[Thomas]

I like to purchase my diesel where the towns/cites power companies etc. fuel up,station has winter diesel cut plus fresher supply.

 

[crazyal]

Diesel 9-1-1 intended to de-ice fuel lines. Anyone use it?

DIESEL 9?1?1® For Winter Emergencies: Winter Rescue Formula ? use to reliquefy gelled fuel and de-ice frozen fuel-filters.

Does anyone use the white bottle year-round? I notice the link says to use it only in cold weather.

DIESEL FUEL SUPPLEMENT® +Cetane Boost®: Arctic Formula ? use when temperatures drop below 30°F. for maximum winter operability.

I try not to use the 911, it's not great for the engine. It contains alcohol. I do use power service with anti-gel (white bottle) as it's easy to get. I often use it year round simply because I have treated fuel left over from winter that lasts well into the summer. I don't think there's any difference between the silver bottle and white bottle except for the anti-gel. There are other brands that do work better (lubricating, not anti-gel) if you are willing to spend more.

 

[TomSeller]

I try not to use the 911, it's not great for the engine. It contains alcohol. I do use power service with anti-gel (white bottle) as it's easy to get. I often use it year round simply because I have treated fuel left over from winter that lasts well into the summer. I don't think there's any difference between the silver bottle and white bottle except for the anti-gel. There are other brands that do work better (lubricating, not anti-gel) if you are willing to spend more.

Any idea why they would say on the link to their white bottle that it is only for temps below 30F? They just trying to sell the silver bottle?

 

[vtsnowedin]

Any idea why they would say on the link to their white bottle that it is only for temps below 30F? They just trying to sell the silver bottle?

Why would you need any additive for temps above 30 degrees?

 

[TomSeller]

Why would you need any additive for temps above 30 degrees?

Mostly for lubrication with the ULSD fuel.

 

[PHPaul]

I'd ask why doesn't No. 2 diesel come with enough lubricity already in it. But I can guess that the answer is some dumb government regulation written by a tree hugger bureaucrat that knows absolutely nothing about diesel engines.

That's what the sulfur was for. Now, as to why they haven't included a suitable substitute in pump fuel...:confused3:

 

[RoyJackson]

I'd ask why doesn't No. 2 diesel come with enough lubricity already in it. But I can guess that the answer is some dumb government regulation written by a tree hugger bureaucrat that knows absolutely nothing about diesel engines.

And you're right...the problem is more with older tractors. I use Power Service every time I fill the tank.

 

[Egon]

I like to purchase my diesel where the towns/cites power companies etc. fuel up,station has winter diesel cut plus fresher supply.

Wise move.:thumbsup:

 

[DeereMann]

That's what the sulfur was for. Now, as to why they haven't included a suitable substitute in pump fuel...:confused3:

They did - but - not enough per EMA (Engine Manufacturers) requirements. API spec'd 520mm 4 ball wear test max scar depth, EMA spec'd 460 per fuel injection pump manufacturers. So.......fuel suppliers aren't gonna add any more cost than they're required to, hence always use a lubricity supplement.

Also, most commercial diesel fuels have min. cetane (40) where our small engines require 50. So need cetane booster too to get complete combustion - prevents exessive deposits on injector nozzle tips, etc.

I use Opti-Lube XPD. No alcohol.