Tractor Shopping Observations

[MtnViewRanch]

Inflation is a whole different can of worms.

What I'm talking about is you go to buy that candy bar, and they say sorry sir we don't offer just candy bars anymore, you will have to buy a pack of gum also.

Just like the combo meals at all the fast food places. But you don't have to buy the combo meal, you can get just the burger or just the fries. They offer the combos because that is what most people want, same with cars, trucks, tractors.

 

[TripleR]

I think most of you are misunderstanding the nature of my original post.

I'm not saying they are none out there. What I'm talking about is TRENDS, wait a few years and see how many real farming type tractors are left that are under 50HP and 50 grand.

No doubt trends are changing and I guess have been since people first abandoned the hunter gatherer lifestyle and began agrarian lifestyles. Our 160 acre farm was standard size when we grew up and people could make a living with a combination of row crop, livestock and a garden. By the time I left home, mom was working in a factory to supplement the income then dad had to start driving a truck with kids farming. I remember when our neighbor managed to put together 400 acres and was considered a "big farmer". Now a thousand acres is nothing special and no one farms with anything under 200 HP and will need more than one.

I believe the trends are consumer driven and not manufacture driven.

They don't make base model cars or trucks because so few people will buy them. I bought one for probably less than it cost several years ago after it sat on the lot for almost two years. Someone had special ordered it then backed out after driving it.

 

[Catfish Man]

I'm not against technology, I'm still debating HST vs gear.

And yes I will be adding a FEL in a couple of years, but I'm opting out right now for cost reasons and because I don't have an immediate need for it.

I have a quote on my desk right now for a kubota L series with all the bells and whistles. It would be ideally suited to for my immediate needs, it would be very comfortable, and my neighbors would envy me. But do I need all that? :confused2:

Again I'm not even talking about the CURRENT tractors I'm talking about where we are headed.

 

[TripleR]

I'm not against technology, I'm still debating HST vs gear.

And yes I will be adding a FEL in a couple of years, but I'm opting out right now for for cost reasons and because I don't have an immediate need for it.

I have a quote on my desk right now for a kubota L series with all the bells and whistles. It would be ideally suited to for my immediate needs, it would be very comfortable, and my neighbors would envy me. But do I need all that? :confused2:

Again I'm not even talking about the CURRENT tractors I'm talking about where we are headed.

Heck I imagine a lot of us have more than we "need", I bought additional tractors to get out of running them between farms. Our renters would do just about everything I do on one farm free, but I enjoy it and want it done when I want it done, not when someone can get around to it.

I guess I am "old", 64, just not "old school".

 

[Catfish Man]

And I will also be adding a hydraulic top link from mtn view

 

[Catfish Man]

If any manufacturer offered a pickup truck that was:

good heavy truck
an engine with some grunt
no carpet
no power locks or windows
sheet metal thick enough that it doesn't bend when you lean on it
a manual transmission with a granny gear
a rear end made for pulling not for gas mileage
*that cost less than I paid for my first house* (and I'm not that old)

I would be at the dealership first thing in the morning to buy one
and I would gladly pay extra for the heater and am/fm radio

 

[TripleR]

And I will also be adding a hydraulic top link from mtn view

One of the best things I ever bought and I am pretty darned sure I really NEEDED it.:thumbsup:

If any manufacturer offered a pickup truck that was:

good heavy truck
an engine with some grunt
no carpet
no power locks or windows
sheet metal thick enough that it doesn't bend when you lean on it
a manual transmission with a granny gear
a rear end made for pulling not for gas mileage
*that cost less than I paid for my first house* (and I'm not that old)

I would be at the dealership first thing in the morning to buy one
and I would gladly pay extra for the heater and am/fm radio

They would sell at least one. Even though I live in a farming area, most pickups around here never haul or pull much of anything. My brother has a truck like that he used to pull his back hoe and such with, but it's probably thirty years old.

 

[Diamondpilot]

I ran into the same issues. I had a Ford 861 gas, no loader and wanted a 4x4 tractor with a loader.

The big 3's were not what I wanted at all after looking at them. I ended up going Chinese with a Jinma 284. Glad I did. Tractor and loader on this 28HP beast weighed 3,800# and with weights on the front, wheel weights, (both are standard), and filling the rear tires it now weighs 5,600# and can really do some work. It will flat out pull my 861 which is gas and 48 HP any day of the week and twice on Sundays with its 28HP.

Another little fact about Chinese tractors is they rate them at a 12 hour average HP, not peak like the others. My tractor out of the box turned 31 HP on the PTO peak out of its 28 HP engine. I venture to guess its more near 35 peak HP.

Its basically built like the tractors were 50 years ago. I tell people its like buying a brand new 45 year old tractor.

Oh yea, and it has real tires, R1's. All the others push the R4's so hard but my experience with them using others machines left me disappointed.

I could not live without a loader thought. I would say I spend 60% of my time doing loader work, 30% mowing, and the other 10% pushing snow and grading.

Chris

 

[MtnViewRanch]

If any manufacturer offered a pickup truck that was:

good heavy truck
an engine with some grunt
no carpet
no power locks or windows
sheet metal thick enough that it doesn't bend when you lean on it
a manual transmission with a granny gear
a rear end made for pulling not for gas mileage
*that cost less than I paid for my first house* (and I'm not that old)

I would be at the dealership first thing in the morning to buy one
and I would gladly pay extra for the heater and am/fm radio

Once up on a time International would build you the exact truck that you want. What happened? :confused3:

My 1959 F600 has no heater in it. I bought one for it 6-7 years ago, just have never gotten around to installing it. I guess that I don't really need it all that bad after all.

 

[D7E]

I'll add that they're also getting more sneaky about the horseposer ratings by commonly advertising the engine HP rather than the PTO or drawbar HP which are always lower.

But the rest of the world have always used engine hp as the standard , america is just catching up to speed with everyone else.

 

[Catfish Man]

Back in the day international knew a thing or two about building trucks and tractors

 

[CaptJCHill]

If you use a loader so much, why don't you get a skid steer and a compact tractor for mowing and snow removal? My experience with fel's is that they are not as safe, or versatile as some would think.
John
B727 /737 /757 /767 etc.

 

[MrWhippy]

If you use a loader so much, why don't you get a skid steer and a compact tractor for mowing and snow removal? My experience with fel's is that they are not as safe, or versatile as some would think.
John
B727 /737 /757 /767 etc.

I'd be hard pressed to find a reasonable skidsteer for the price difference I paid for the tractor/FEL over just the tractor.

But you're right, skidsteers are amazing pieces of equipment, and much more compact and maneuverable than a tractor with FEL

 

[dwhite]

I would look at used tractors. Try tractorhouse.com. You should find what you want.

I don't think I'm lazy because I bought an HST. I bought the best tool for the job, which is what everyone should try to do. Good luck.

 

[JoelD]

Boy what a simple great post.

I'm thinking about the loader statement.

Personally, and easy for me to say, I'd not purchase tractor without one.

But if I was purchasing a machine to say mow a very large field, not sure I'd use a tractor with a three point mower or a purpose build grass cutting machine?? Are there purpose built grass cutting machines for large acreage other than a tractor with three point, I don't know?

I purchased my tractor to clear snow, move dirt and dig holes and clear trees. Without my loader and backhoe my tractor would be of no use to me.

With that said, if I was only clearing snow, I'd likely purchase a tractor and three point blower as that is what I can afford.

I'm wrapping myself around the axle on this one.

What I started trying to say is, I wonder if more tractors are being purchased to lift stuff and the like rather than mow and high speed zero turns are common place? Therefore, as an example, you'd see less tractors being purchased as purely mowing machines and therefore no loader.

Joel

 

[Catfish Man]

Another observation is people don't bother to read the whole thread, they read a couple of sentences, think they know how the conversation is going and jump in.

 

[Martian]

Another observation is people don't bother to read the whole thread, they read a couple of sentences, think they know how the conversation is going and jump in.

I'd like to start by saying, no wasn't here right away, but I did read all of the posts...

This is not meant to knock anybody's choices in anyway, just some observations from my recent tractor shopping both in person and over the internet. And yes I could be described as "old school"

1. Tractor manufacturers are forcing us into machines with less weight and more HP. I suspect there are many reasons for this, one is people are using tractors more like lawn mowers and they don't want to mess up their lawn. I think from the point of manufacturers, it's because they can fit more small tractors on a container ship than they can big ones. I've seen some amazing things done with older tractors in the 30hp range (because they have the weight to get the power to the ground). Nowdays most 30hp tractors look like lawnmowers and weigh about the same as one.

2. There is a huge move to hydrostatic transmissions. I'm not going to debate which transmission is best (they each have their place), but hydrostatics use more hp and they are more expensive. You can't hardly buy a manual transmission in a car nowdays. I see this bleeding over to the tractor segment in the next few years. People are getting lazier and people don't understand how a tractor clutch works. If you want a hydrostatic that's fine by me, but don't try to tell me I have to buy one.

3. People think you HAVE to purchase a tractor with a loader. I'm not debating that a loader is a very handy tool. What I am saying is people are spending a lot of money on loaders that the average person gets very little use out of. You do not have to include a loader in your initial purchase, it can always be added latter. A lot of farming was done before loaders become common place. How did they manage? They were resourceful and they used their brain. Dealers are automatically adding the cost of a loader in my package without even asking if I want one. I don't know but I suspect this must be a high profit margin item.

4. Tractor dealerships are looking more like car dealerships. And most of the employees know very little about tractors.

I'd have to respectfully disagree with you on the way you think we're going about the 'packages'. People buy CUT's to do different chores and they want what's right for them. All of this is CONSUMER, not mfg driven. If someone doesn't like something, they don't buy it. Plain and simple. The greatness of our free enterprise.

I'd also disagree about what a CUT is. People buy CUTs for a versatile Swiss Army Knife. They aren't great at anything, but they are really good at a lot of things. I just bought a TLB. If I really wanted the best possible combo I would've gotten a skid steer and a mini ex. The combo of them would do every job better than my single 110, but the CUT factor and it being way cheaper than a similarly nice SS and Mini ex would be way more. People by CUTs for these different tasks and like the nicer HST and loader to do more tasks.

 

[MasseyWV]

But the rest of the world have always used engine hp as the standard , america is just catching up to speed with everyone else.

What the rest of the world does is of little concern to me. Personally, I believe the horsepower that reaches the ground or is available to perform useful work is what matters most.

 

[big bubba]

it would be interesting to look @ sales data of new tractors sold to customers to see how satisfied they were with the process of selecting the appropriate machine for their needs with the dealership sales process. & how many traded back to acquire the right one.
my experience with dealerships is that they are far too quick on the draw to sell whatever whim the consumer may have without actually really inquiring in depth what it is the customers are buying the machine for. Yes, the consumer (at first) may not really know....but that is the point!!!!
it would not take much for the salesperson to have a scripted set of questions to help the consumer make the wise decision.
Just look at the diversity of 50 hp models in the top 5 manufacturers. Frame size, weight, wheel size, transmissions all come into play. This is where i feel the disconnect comes into play.
Sales personnel are all to quick to speed up the transaction without inquiry. It should be the responsibility of the salesperson to help the consumer to make informed decisions on a substantial purchase,
only imho bb

 

[MasseyWV]

it would not take much for the salesperson to have a scripted set of questions to help the consumer make the wise decision.

The only problem is that wise decisions and profitable sales seldom go hand in hand and the salesmen know it.