Work Shop 220v Receptacle?

MossRoad · Dec 30, 2003

Settle down, fellers /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

The explanation of the welder wiring has been answered and the question of what meets code VS what would a person do in real life is a valid one.

While it is apparently legal and up to code to do something, many people here would opt for something a little beefier. Nothing wrong with that. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Inspector507 · Dec 30, 2003

No I would not...........but a range is not a welder, and thats what we're discussing here. Thats why I quit responding to people even when they're getting B$ advice. I've already said it is code compliant for a welder and if you feel you want to wire yours a different way......go for it. I wired mine in compliance with the code and with safety in mind. Now could I be "safer" by using a larger wire?? No safer, but emptier pockets.

Deerlope · Dec 30, 2003

We should all try to remember what the orignal post was here. our comments are supposed to help the orignal poster not get into a bashing war. I am also guilty.

Wood_Butcher_Dav · Dec 30, 2003

I've have to chime in also. The current capacity of wires varies greatly with the type of wire used (stranded or solid), insulation type, number of conductors bundled together, length, and ambient temperatures. the list I have (from Belden) shows Single conductor 10ga from 40 (Neoprene) to 90 (200C Silicone) amps and 2-3 conductors are rated from 40 to 60 amps.

Dave

TWINKLE_TOES · Dec 30, 2003

Thanks for the response 507, I had no intention of annoying you. Your presence here and on CBN is highly valued. My question was intended to get your clear acknowledgement of the unacceptability of reduced wire gauge on a household range connector. I felt PineRidge was short changed in his post about "accident waiting for a place to happen". The reality of the situation is: the most popular and least expensive 50Amp 220 volt connector on the market today is the household range connector. Both plug and receptacle are a fraction of the NEMA equivalents. It should be no surprise that it finds its way into many applications around a normal shop. This would include welding machines, planners, powder coat ovens, compressors and even ranges. It is also not uncommon for additions to a shop to occur over time. To address the suitability of reduced wire size for the welding machine application without addressing the interface connection and it's variability over time is what PineRidge properly identified as an accident waiting for a place to happen. The reality of this situation goes well beyond what an electrical compliance inspector is required to do. These additions often occur without permit or inspection.

If you are making life/death decisions based on information found on an internet discussion board, you need professional help and not necessarily electrical.

Junkman · Dec 30, 2003

Twinkle Toes said:
( Would you approve an installation using a 50Amp breaker and #10 wire, connected to a 50 Amp range outlet? I seriously doubt it. )

I see that you have added some additional words to the original post. You added ( I seriously doubt it.) This changes the intent of the post from the way it was first worded... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

TWINKLE_TOES · Dec 30, 2003

Would one of the moderators please confirm that no edits were made to my original post.

Muhammad · Dec 30, 2003

No, it doesn't appear to have been edited.

CTyler · Dec 30, 2003

Even though your later post put a softer tone on things. The post in question was one of a trolling nature.

Junkman · Dec 30, 2003

My appologies..... must have been a senior moment........

TWINKLE_TOES · Dec 30, 2003

No problem. Hope Vic didn't high tail it forever, he had a darn good question.

dos_perros · Dec 30, 2003

I'm still here and still learning. Appreciate the information and enjoy the enthusiasm. "... making decisions about life and death situations, etc..." Great! Don't fret. We all learn how to sift the sand.

Deerlope · Dec 31, 2003

A parting thought to ponder.If you or a loved one were seriously ill would you want the best doctor you could get or one who only met the minimal requirements?

PineRidge · Dec 31, 2003

/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

zuiko · Jan 1, 2004

What size wire would I need for a 20amp welder circuit? I need to make an long extension cord for a 175amp MIG, I would probably bump it up a gauge because it has to be particularly long (100-150 feet). The welder has a 30% duty cycle when its maxed out. I'm hoping I can get away with a 12 gauge cord.

johnbilt · Jan 1, 2004

Zuiko

A #12 wire will handle the current safely for a 20A circuit, but the voltage drop will not work well with your welder. I would suggest a #10 wire as a minimum for an extension up to 25 feet. I would tend to bump another gauge to #8 or #6 for an extension of the length you are suggesting.

Are you sure 20A is enough for a 175A welder ?? My little century 110V / 130A Mig is spec'ed at 25 A for full performance.

Good Luck
Johnbilt

TWINKLE_TOES · Jan 3, 2004

CTyler, sorry for the late response but I'm a liitle unclrear on was one of a trolling nature . I really don't think I have established a reputation on this board as a troll.

Please insert apology here " sorry Al I screwed up--------" If Junkman can handle it I'm sure you can also.

CTyler · Jan 5, 2004

I was only refering to that particular post not your posts in general. The post in question looks like a troll post.

fractal · Feb 9, 2004

( Thank all for them useful information. It reinforces what I have been slowly concluding. There is no such thing as a useful "universal" 220v receptable.)

I came to the same conclusion when I tried to plan out my next shop. I also discovered that you can not buy panels at home depot or orchard supply hardware that will allow you to "do it right". My lord, a 60 amp sub has room for two 220 circuits. That's right, two. Sure, I can run my shop of a 60 amp circuit from my main panel but there is no way on earth I can get the required number of circuit breakers into that panel. You end up looking at a 200 amp panel which is only available as a main service entrance panel at the box stores in order to get sufficient number of circuit breaker locations to run even a small shop with dedicated 220 circuits run for every tool.

Ack, enough of the rant. Yeah, there is no easy solution. You either do it right which means purchasing commercial grade equipment at a painful price point or you figure out how "out of code" you are willing to operate. Sux /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

uhmgawa · Mar 2, 2004

( First, my shop isnt wired to code. That may or may not be important to you. Code says only one 220v recepticle/circuit. I have several daisy chained/circuit... )

Interesting. Unless this is a recent addition, I don't see this
limitation in the NEC. "Article 210-4 Multiwire branch circuits"
in my (admittedly dated) NEC allows for mixing 120V and 240V
on the same multiwire branch circuit with the qualification that all
ungrounded conductors are opened simultaneously by the branch
overcurrent device.

Article 210-6 calls for a limitation of 120V nominal in branch
circuits in "dwelling units" which dosen't apply to a shop/work
area.