weld grinding tips needed

[CNC Dan]

i think i got a few of those. i got a bunch of the Lincoln books. i liked the early project books, but the later ones, not so much. i'll have to dig arround to see what i have.

 

[daugen]

well the private seller of that welding book must have sent it by train, still not here.
but I did read this, and wonder if someone can translate: why the one rod over the other?

PowerARC units have a special E 6010 setting for true pipe and contstruction welding performance, and a regular setting for smooth and easy 7018 welding or the rod of your choice.

Smooth and easy sounds good to a newbie...what's the first three rods I should buy?

assuming for a PowerARC 160 STH

 

[Shield Arc]

Everybody has their opinion, and I'm convinced these inverters like one brand over the other.:confused3:
My go to rods are, ESAB's AtomArc 7018, both in 3/32" and 1/8"
ESAB's Sureweld 10P 6010, 1/8". I've tried the 10P-Plus, I like the 10P better!
I just opened a can of Radnor 6010 that was given to me, I really like it too.
But I have no problem at all with Hobart's 335A 6011, 1/8".

 

[k0ua]

In my opinion you need some 7018, some 6011, and some 7014. Get some 3/32 and 1/8 in each of the 3. forget the 6010, you are not in the pipe welding business, and the PA160sth model does not have the 6010 port any way. My PA160 does but I have never used it or needed 6010. and in my opinion forget the 6013. I have used a lot of it, but I believe the 7014 will do you better. Start with the 7014, it is a "drag rod", and easier to run. 7018 is the hardest rod to get the hang of because of the need to break off the "corn" that forms on the end of the rod as soon as you lift the arc. This makes it difficult to restrike or start the arc again. The best way I have found to deal with this is simply break off the "corn" with your thumb and restrike it. But 7018 makes the strongest, best looking welds, and is pretty easy to run also. The 6011 will do all you need to do with dirty metal, and makes a good penetration, but the welds are not as pretty, and not quite as strong as 7018. 7014 is very easy to run, and makes a good rod to fill holes, and makes a nice flat weld, Some guys use it for everything, but I have seen enough tests on this forum, to believe it is just not as strong as 7018. Like shield arc said, you ask 10 guys about rods and you will get 20 opinions Now you have my opinions. As for the TIG, capability on the PA160sth, you should start with some 1/16 either 1 1/2 or 2 percent Lanthanated and a #5 cup, and it will do most of what you want to do. You will want the foot pedal at some point, and if you can swing it, just get it to start with. Just get some 1/16 ER70s-2 filler rod. The links below are as good as any place to get TIG supplys, I use them. I usually buy the filler rod at my Local Welding supply. So there you go. Good Luck.

Tungsten Electrode Welding, Tungsten Weld Material | USAWeld.com

James K0UA

 

[k0ua]

Oh, I forgot the most important thing, you MUST get an autodarkening helmet. That one thing will do more for improving your welding, than any other thing. Standard welding helmets are for Old professionals., You are not one of them and neither am I. Stop scratching around in the dark, get the auto-darkening helmet to start with and enjoy life.

 

[daugen]

super advice, thanks. My birthday is next month and I can see I've got a shopping
list coming for much more than just the welder, lots of mandatory accessories.
And no, I won't forget a really big fire extinguisher...

 

[IslandTractor]

well the private seller of that welding book must have sent it by train, still not here.
but I did read this, and wonder if someone can translate: why the one rod over the other?

PowerARC units have a special E 6010 setting for true pipe and contstruction welding performance, and a regular setting for smooth and easy 7018 welding or the rod of your choice.

Smooth and easy sounds good to a newbie...what's the first three rods I should buy?

assuming for a PowerARC 160 STH

ShieldArc has burned about a million times as much rod as I have so take my pointers with a large grain of amateur salt...

If you are a professional welder working on pipes, then 6010 is a must. For the rest of us, especially those with smaller inverter machines like my Maxstar 150 STH, 6011 does pretty much the same thing and works well when excellent penetration is more important than spatter or looks.

6013 is a general purpose rod adequate for most noncritical welds and looks a lot nicer than 6011. Good for repairs to mower decks for example. Not as good penetration as 6011.

7014 is useful as it has many of the characteristics of 7018 but is not a low hydrogen rod so does not require fastidious storage in an oven. It does not penetrate as well as 7018 so is best used as a finish weld over 6011 or in noncritical areas.

7018 is great but the storage issue is a problem for occasional use amateurs. If I had a specific project I would buy just enough but would try not to store it.

The other advice from my experience as a novice is to stick with rods less than 1/8" until you get good at starting and maintaining an arc especially with smaller inverter welders.

 

[IslandTractor]

super advice, thanks. My birthday is next month and I can see I've got a shopping
list coming for much more than just the welder, lots of mandatory accessories.
And no, I won't forget a really big fire extinguisher...

Better yet get a small fire extinguisher and at least several welding blankets to spread around the welding area to prevent fires. An ounce of prevention etc etc...

HF sells adequate welding blankets for hobby use and they are cheap on sale or with a coupon.

 

[dstig1]

Have you looked locally on CL and elsewhere for used DC welders? You can usually find a decent one for under $200-300. I recommend the Millers as they are infinite adjust vs the Lincolns which are tapped to specific voltage points. This is hard to beat vs even new stuff, and I am still not sold on the Chinese equipment. I'm sure it will get there, but I am not yet convinced it is there yet... (my opinion)

 

[daugen]

Have you looked locally on CL and elsewhere for used DC welders? You can usually find a decent one for under $200-300. I recommend the Millers as they are infinite adjust vs the Lincolns which are tapped to specific voltage points. This is hard to beat vs even new stuff, and I am still not sold on the Chinese equipment. I'm sure it will get there, but I am not yet convinced it is there yet... (my opinion)

that's really good advice. But how do I know if it works if I'm, well, shall we say, rather virginal here... Yeah I can turn it on, see if the light comes on...
I'm sure those old tombstones are very reliable and I'm worrying about nothing, but sometimes people sell things because they don't work as well as they did before....
I guess the obvious answer is to take an experienced person with me to check it out. I'm smart enough to smelled burnt wiring, and I understand these welders aren't overly complicated inside.
My guess is the older machines are built like older tractors, for forever.

These used machines aren't that expensive, I guess I can't go too wrong. Wonder how the old tombstone compares to a new high tech Chinese welder on the same rods/application...

 

[dstig1]

Well, if you can assume the guy you are buying it from knows how to use it, you can have him demonstrate it (or bring your own expert along). The simple transformer welders ARE pretty bullet proof. I guess I have had such good luck buying used equipment over the years, I don't worry about it too much. The vast majority of sellers are honest. If something doesn't smell right, walk. Other than that you should be good to go. And these things are easy to resell if you need or want to. I bought and sold a DC Lincoln tombstone in the space of a year as I wanted a better unit. I even made money on that welder as I got it quite cheap. I didn't try it out either, just took his word for it. When I listed it on CL, I think it took 2 days to sell, at most.

 

[Mark @ Everlast]

that's really good advice. But how do I know if it works if I'm, well, shall we say, rather virginal here... Yeah I can turn it on, see if the light comes on...
I'm sure those old tombstones are very reliable and I'm worrying about nothing, but sometimes people sell things because they don't work as well as they did before....
I guess the obvious answer is to take an experienced person with me to check it out. I'm smart enough to smelled burnt wiring, and I understand these welders aren't overly complicated inside.


My guess is the older machines are built like older tractors, for forever.

These used machines aren't that expensive, I guess I can't go too wrong. Wonder how the old tombstone compares to a new high tech Chinese welder on the same rods/application...

And a lot of those people are selling them because of a disappointing experience or they aren't satisfied with their performance in some way either through rapid growth into a business or needing higher duty cycles for the job at hand. Not all are dissatisfied for sure, but you'll definitely find a significant number are (just ask them what they are replacing the welder with). There is usually a reason so many are for sale as many people are trading up. Inverters, chinese or not, offer more stable welding arc, less power consumption, and a whole lot less hernias when moving them around...not to say that some high end or really old transformers don't offer a stable arc, because they do. But the size and weight alone can be an issue for some...and those won't typically be for sale as often as the dime a dozen crackerbox transformer welders. These are fine for some people, but less and less are being sold as inverters are coming down in price. You also should consider that one repair on an old transformer can easily exceed the purchase price, and though people say they are bullet proof, they are not. Switches, fans, and diodes are common issues with transformers. Though relatively easy to repair, they aren't cheap, and if you have to pay someone a hundred dollar bill to fix it, then the cost benefit is lost.

 

[daugen]

Oh, I forgot the most important thing, you MUST get an autodarkening helmet. That one thing will do more for improving your welding, than any other thing. Standard welding helmets are for Old professionals., You are not one of them and neither am I. Stop scratching around in the dark, get the auto-darkening helmet to start with and enjoy life.

do I need to spend more than this? Is a hundred dollar helmet significantly better than this?
thanks

Wel-Bilt Auto-Darkening Welding Helmet | Welding Helmets| Northern Tool + Equipment


Yes, the Wel-Bilt Auto-Darkening Welding Helmet does meet ANSI Z87.1-2003 standards.

We do not have a "cheater lens available for the Wel-Bilt Welding Helmet. ???????

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200416894_200416894
something tells me wide screen is better...do most welders get a large screen helmet sooner or later?
thanks

 

[daugen]

And a lot of those people are selling them because of a disappointing experience or they aren't satisfied with their performance in some way either through rapid growth into a business or needing higher duty cycles for the job at hand. Not all are dissatisfied for sure, but you'll definitely find a significant number are (just ask them what they are replacing the welder with). There is usually a reason so many are for sale as many people are trading up. Inverters, chinese or not, offer more stable welding arc, less power consumption, and a whole lot less hernias when moving them around...not to say that some high end or really old transformers don't offer a stable arc, because they do. But the size and weight alone can be an issue for some...and those won't typically be for sale as often as the dime a dozen crackerbox transformer welders. These are fine for some people, but less and less are being sold as inverters are coming down in price. You also should consider that one repair on an old transformer can easily exceed the purchase price, and though people say they are bullet proof, they are not. Switches, fans, and diodes are common issues with transformers. Though relatively easy to repair, they aren't cheap, and if you have to pay someone a hundred dollar bill to fix it, then the cost benefit is lost.

Mark, thank you.
I went back to CraigsList and poked around. Lots of older industrial welders, tombstones, and every other variety being hawked.
For 2-300 used, I agree completely that a hundred dollar repair seems excessive. But if with that repair, the tool works "competitively" with more modern designs,
I have no problem spending money "restoring" an older machine. I simply lack the knowledge to do it. For my first welder, I think new and with a warranty makes sense.
I also think newer designs may be more efficient and will convert to DC using less electricity and cost to do so. Here's hoping; probably utterly insignificant...

I'm still waiting on the used welding textbook I ordered from Amazon and then a third party seller, who likely was quite happy to send the package by book rate which means it's gathering dust somewhere.
In that book I'm hoping there is a list of minimum "must haves". Remembering that I'm not going to start off welding the Alaskan pipeline, but little mower decks, is there a reasonable consensus on what
I have to get before I start? What am I forgetting: helmet, blankets, fire extinguisher, gloves, apron?, metal welding table, clamps and big vice, magnets?, wire brushes/files, rods, phew.

 

[k0ua]

do I need to spend more than this? Is a hundred dollar helmet significantly better than this?
thanks

Wel-Bilt Auto-Darkening Welding Helmet | Welding Helmets| Northern Tool + Equipment


Yes, the Wel-Bilt Auto-Darkening Welding Helmet does meet ANSI Z87.1-2003 standards.

We do not have a "cheater lens available for the Wel-Bilt Welding Helmet. ???????

Northern Industrial Welders Large View Auto-Darkening Welding Helmet | Welding Helmets| Northern Tool + Equipment
something tells me wide screen is better...do most welders get a large screen helmet sooner or later?
thanks

I have that exact helmet and I like it fine. It is just a 2 sensor helmet not a 4.. What that means is if you are sticking your head around a project and some of the metal blocks the sensors view of the arc it wont shift into dark mode. But that is no big deal. The light mode is dark enough to protect your eyes. and to make the helmet work properly, just move your head a little to get it out of the shadow of the project. This rarely happens , but it did happen to me once while building a machine stand with upright vertical pieces. Is this $44 helmet the quality of a $300 helmet.. no.. but it works well , and fits well. So yeah, get one. The screen seemed big enough to me.

James K0UA

 

[Gary Fowler]

I got rooked on a used mower that the guy supposedly rebuilt. The mower deck looked like new but over the course of use, one of the deck hangers bent and then one of the spindles bent. When I took it off the try straightening and welding it, that's when I found about a gallon of bondo filling in all the rusted out holes /pitting and everything else. It looks smooth and solid with nice new paint and not one crack in the bondo. A wire wheel and a lot of torch heating to loosen it all up and I finally got it all out so I could properly repair the deck with some new plate. I immediately decided it was worth putting some work into it when the JD parts dealer said a new deck was $1200 without spindles or pulleys, just the metal deck. I have to give the guy credit, he did an nice job with the bondo making it look smooth and like new however bondo doesn't hold nearly as well as metal. I don't think you would have any issue with using it to spackle any worm holes in that welding just for cosmetic sake, but if you ever plan to weld over it, stay away from the Bondo. IT is a real PIA to remove.

 

[k0ua]

I got rooked on a used mower that the guy supposedly rebuilt. The mower deck looked like new but over the course of use, one of the deck hangers bent and then one of the spindles bent. When I took it off the try straightening and welding it, that's when I found about a gallon of bondo filling in all the rusted out holes /pitting and everything else. It looks smooth and solid with nice new paint and not one crack in the bondo. A wire wheel and a lot of torch heating to loosen it all up and I finally got it all out so I could properly repair the deck with some new plate. I immediately decided it was worth putting some work into it when the JD parts dealer said a new deck was $1200 without spindles or pulleys, just the metal deck. I have to give the guy credit, he did an nice job with the bondo making it look smooth and like new however bondo doesn't hold nearly as well as metal. I don't think you would have any issue with using it to spackle any worm holes in that welding just for cosmetic sake, but if you ever plan to weld over it, stay away from the Bondo. IT is a real PIA to remove.

OMG. someone actually put bondo on a deck:shocked: THAT is an evil person! Sounds like the kind of guy that would sell you a used car with a transmission full of sawdust..

James K0UA

 

[Gary Fowler]

That is a lot of what you get with old "rebuilt" stuff. A magnet would be handy to find this stuff, however everything else worked well with it so I wasn't too disappointed and I was able to salvage the deck with some 1/8" flat bar and lots of welding and heating and beating. It isn't as pretty but is functional. All the spindles are heavy cast iron with replaceable sealed bearings that are about $10 each rather than the new mower stuff that cost $100 for a replacement spindle.
NOW for the welding machine. The only bad thing about the old Lincoln tombstone welders was the amperage selection of 15 or so jump from each setting. Many times one setting is too cold but the next one is too hot so no fine current adjustment like on some other model. I wouldn't buy an AC machine unless it also had DC. My old school Miller transformer type machine has AC but I have never used it for AC and use DC exclusively. A foot control would be nice for TIG or stick but I wouldn't pay $200 for it unless I planned to do a lot of aluminum welding. The foot control is nice for that where you can crank it up to get your preheat done the lower the amps to weld as the piece gets hot.
Only buy a machine with infinite setting capability and I would have to have DC also.

 

[Shield Arc]

I wouldn't buy an AC machine unless it also had DC.

Well lets see if Soundguy jumps all over you for making that statement! :laughing:

 

[dstig1]

In my experience, most people are selling the old transformer welders, not because they hate them, because they simply do not use them or it was Dad's old welder and the kid has no interest/need after Dad passed away. Some people are upgrading, for sure. I did, but it got me started OK. I'm sure it is possible to find a broken transformer welder, but a simple test run should find that out, if you are concerned. While it is always possible to get hosed, reasonable care should prevent that and worrying about that type of repair bill is rare enough to sound more like extreme over-caution. And I agree that the Miller Thunderbolt is probably a better AC/DC choice as it was infinitely adjustable vs the stepped Lincolns. I had the Lincoln and that annoyed me, but it still worked reasonably, especially just as a first machine to get started.

Buying used is a great way to start out. You will find out if you like it and help figure out what direction you want to go from there at minimal initial cost. A lot of times you get extras with a used welder too, like a helmet or extra rods. I got a milk crate full of rods (most in decent shape), several gloves, and a HF welding helmet with mine (guy was retiring/downsizing) all for $150.