Water heater recs please

[plowhog]

Need to register to read but a plumber told me smaller diameter lines require less volume of hit water to destination... so my oversize lines actually work against me but with the recirc pump the hot water is immediate but at a increased gas and electric use.

I was also unable to read it.

My father was a plumber. Even more than 50 years ago, he would plumb houses to automatically circulate water without using a pump. (very low flow of course.) Just the heat from the water heater along with a rise in the copper pipe. I don't know exactly how he did it but I remember him talking about it.

My new residence has a recirc loop so hot water is always near every faucet and fixture. The plumbers "helper" who was working underneath the house during construction pulled 3/4" pipe for the loop and no one caught it. We had inadequate flow as the main water users (tub, 3 showers) are on the completely opposite side of the house from the on-demand heaters. More than 100ft. (We chose a 77 gal tub because I really dislike small tubs.) Trying to fill the tub was a slow process.

At no cost to us, they came back and entirely replumbed the recirc line to 1 1/4. Now everything has plenty of hot water, and flow, no matter what demand we place on it.

Maybe not the most energy efficient, but from a comfort perspective it is perfect.

 

[ultrarunner]

I was also unable to read it.

My father was a plumber. Even more than 50 years ago, he would plumb houses to automatically circulate water without using a pump. (very low flow of course.) Just the heat from the water heater along with a rise in the copper pipe. I don't know exactly how he did it but I remember him talking about it.

My new residence has a recirc loop so hot water is always near every faucet and fixture. The plumbers "helper" who was working underneath the house during construction pulled 3/4" pipe for the loop and no one caught it. We had inadequate flow as the main water users (tub, 3 showers) are on the completely opposite side of the house from the on-demand heaters. More than 100ft. (We chose a 77 gal tub because I really dislike small tubs.) Trying to fill the tub was a slow process.

At no cost to us, they came back and entirely replumbed the recirc line to 1 1/4. Now everything has plenty of hot water, and flow, no matter what demand we place on it.

Maybe not the most energy efficient, but from a comfort perspective it is perfect.

This how my home is... the owner builder spent on things important to him... Recirc Loop, Radiant Shop Floor Heat, triple pane windows, 2x8 exterior walls to pack with insulation... a few welded and x-rayed I beams for seismic, fire sprinklered... all 1993 construction.

Some things dramatically improved energy efficiency and others like the recirc pump take energy.

The in floor radiant shop heating was used once... the water heater and recirc not used since 1993 as the insulation and being tucked I to the hill provide optimum work temp year round... he said he could have saved a lot had he realized...

 

[grsthegreat]

I am replacing the drain valves on my 10 yo Rheem twin water heaters next week. I ordered a set of full port drain assemblies instead of the throated down crap that comes with the units. I pulled the anode rod i install about 1-1/2 years ago and it’s all broken up. I cant get junk out of the small drain port Rheem supplies. After I flush and clean the units, I’m installing 2 electronic anodes that I recently purchased. Hopefully this will help solve future issues.
im also going to purchase 2 brand new direct vent propane water heater units and store them away, along with a spare propane cooktop. I don’t trust the nanny states from banning these soon. Maybe even store an extra propane furnace. I DON’T want electric heat…ever.

 

[ultrarunner]

I use to keep spare water heaters for property management and found it to be economical especially for this holiday weekends when things always seem to happen.

 

[fruitcakesa]

I initially bought a GE Geospring Heat Pump Water Heater (HPWH) from the GE Outlet store because it was advertised as having a 10 year warranty. The heat pump failed after 13 months service...turned out to be a factory defect (read class action lawsuit).

When I contacted GE they said too bad, in Canada they don't honour their written 10 year warranty I get only 1year in Canada FU and thanks for my money.

I will never buy GE products ever again.

I replaced the unit with an 80 gallon OASmith HPWH. It's been running without problems for 7 years now knock on wood.

The HPWH reduce electric water heating costs by 30-50%. They also do a great job of dehumidifying which is a plus in a damp/humid basement. On the minus side they are noisy and take heat from the room. I have a wood stove in my basement so I figure I'm getting assistance from the wood heat for my water.

We’ve had the same HPWH for 5 years with absolutely zero issues.
It’s true that it’s noisy and sucks the heat out of whatever space it is in.
But since it sits next to the wood boiler in the basement it has a minimal noise effect and has a ready source of heat to use. Consequently, for the 2 of us, it always runs in heat pump mode and uses only the 500 watt element to bring the water up to temperature instead of the 5000 watt unit. When we have had multiple guests stay over, I have set the mode to either hybrid or normal, both of which use the 5000 watt element but that’s a small amount of extra energy used.
I would estimate that even at the .19/kwh we pay in Vermont it costs 30 to 50% to operate than a conventional WH.

 

[t1kilo]

I recommend you check out condensing water heaters. I have a 50 gallon propane model from Westinghouse that I installed 5 years ago. I’ve never run out of hot water, even with the dishwasher and washing machine going at the same time as taking a shower. Not inexpensive, but amazing. 97% efficient too, so it is vented with 2” pvc. There are other manufacturers, but here’s a link to what I have.

Westinghouse Gas Water Heater

 

[kenmac]

There are dip switches, but they don't adjust the minimum flow condition (at least as per the owner's manual: https://www.takagi.com/media/62108/2000536265.pdf).
I suspect that minimum flow has to do with the minimum flame capability; not enough water flow = way too hot of water even at a minimum flame.

Depends on brand. Mine has low fire for low water flow. My tankless is only 150K not the 199K
And those designed for circulation are low flow type

 

[ning]

Depends on brand. Mine has low fire for low water flow. My tankless is only 150K not the 199K
And those designed for circulation are low flow type

As you said, depends on brand and feature set.
Mine's about 10gpm, 4 levels of fire, recirc built in.

 

[Hughman]

Current home has original gas fired 1993 water heater...

It also has a return loop with a small pump.

What I noticed is I use more gas with the circulating loop on 24/7

It works well to save water because hot water is at the tap immediately.

Without the circulating pump the water takes s long time to get hot.

Maybe missing something but recirculating loop isn't about saving energy...

I noticed the excessiveness of the 24/7 return loop on my system so a added a smart plug where I could turn it on/off with a schedule, 30 minutes in the morning before showing and 30 minutes in the evening before dinner.

 

[grsthegreat]

I recommend you check out condensing water heaters. I have a 50 gallon propane model from Westinghouse that I installed 5 years ago. I’ve never run out of hot water, even with the dishwasher and washing machine going at the same time as taking a shower. Not inexpensive, but amazing. 97% efficient too, so it is vented with 2” pvc. There are other manufacturers, but here’s a link to what I have.

Westinghouse Gas Water Heater

The entire brand has been discontinued

 

[ultrarunner]

The entire brand has been discontinued


View attachment 848218

Always wonder how warranty is handled when product dropped?

Once I received a full refund but sounds expensive for company to do.

 

[t1kilo]

The entire brand has been discontinued


View attachment 848218

I hadn’t seen that. Thanks for pointing it out.

There are other manufacturers, and I would certainly replace mine with another condensing model when that time comes. I'll have to check on warranty I guess, huh?

 

[grsthegreat]

This thread got me off my lazy winter butt. I ordered and installed 2 full port drain valves to replace the crappy drains that come with the Raheem units. Now, when I flush the waterheater the water and crud blows out of the unit. Amazing difference.

then after looking at 1 year old anode rods, I tossed them and installed an electric anode to both units. Hopefully the last time I need to do that as there warranted 20 years.

 

[ponytug]

The powered nodes are just amazing. The Corro-protec systems apparently can be run in parallel with an anode for those of us without great standby power.

All the best,

Peter

 

[ultrarunner]

Never replaced a water heater anode.

I'm thinking 30+ years on a gas fired water heater and counting indicates something must be right.

More common in the rentals is 20+ years on low end 20, 30 and 40 gallon heaters.

Where I have experienced problems is when tenants turn up the temp dial to scalding...

At rental move-in I document Water Heater setting with picture plus thermometer reading of hot water temp at faucet...

Plus add a label do not tamper!

 

[grsthegreat]

we have hard water....hard on water heater anode. my anodes will dissolve in 4-5 years.

 

[ponytug]

we have hard water....hard on water heater anode. my anodes will dissolve in 4-5 years.

And mine in more like two. Did I mention I love electronic anodes?

All the best,

Peter

 

[MoKelly]

we have hard water....hard on water heater anode. my anodes will dissolve in 4-5 years.

Would a water softener help?

 

[grsthegreat]

I would assume so, but I hate softeners. Had one before. Could never get soap out of hair.

 

[ponytug]

Would a water softener help?

No, not really. The issue is the ions in the water (hard= calcium and magnesium, soft = sodium, or rarely potassium) help make the water more conductive. That means that the current from corrosion (galvanic action) is much larger, and the anodes dissolve more quickly. There are different flavors of hard water, and that is important for whether or not hard water will precipitate in the tank, and how much sludge accumulates.

One could switch to a stainless tank, but, if the tank isn't cleaned regularly the hard water deposits will line and insulate the inside of the tank.

Side note: typical water hardness meters measuring TDS (Total Dissolved Solids) actually are measuring the current flow or resistance to get to the amount of dissolved ions in the water. That's why hard water and soft water from the same source will have almost exactly the same TDS value. A reverse osmosis filter will keep 95-99% of the non-water ions out of the permeate, dropping the TDS by a factor of twenty or more. (Ours drops it by 60X, but that is partly due to our local water chemistry, a different story.)

All the best,

Peter