Water heater recs please

[jyoutz]

FWIW, I just checked through the installation instructions for 8 different randomly selected gas water heaters at Home Depot. Only one required an electrical connection.

It could be a state or local code thing.

 

[1Mech]

Here is an article I read some time ago, about the right sizing of pipes and better routing can help get you hot water faster, without a recirc pump.

https://www.jlconline.com/how-to/plumbing/efficient-hot-water-piping_o

 

[KennyG]

My water heater is in one end of the basement and I have bathrooms on the 2nd floor at the opposite end of the house. I have a natural circulation hot water loop for those bathrooms and get hot water in 5 seconds without a pump.

 

[ponytug]

Here is an article I read some time ago, about the right sizing of pipes and better routing can help get you hot water faster, without a recirc pump.

https://www.jlconline.com/how-to/plumbing/efficient-hot-water-piping_o

Which brings up why you might want PEX because you get the same flow out of smaller pipes, that have lower heat capacity.

More detail here (not behind a paywall):

http://www.garykleinassociates.com/PDFs/15%20-%20Efficient%20Hot-Water%20Piping-JLC.pdf

However, I'm not so sure that the OP (@etpm) wants to repipe...

To @etpm's comment above about wiring: if that is a concern, look for an energy star rated heat pump that is not a hybrid heat pump version. Most of the non-hybrid heat pumps can be installed on a 15A circuit. I usually search for 120V heat pumps.

Unless you regularly host large events, you probably would not ever use the backup resistance heater.

All the best,

Peter

 

[grsthegreat]

Here’s my dynamic duo

View attachment 847238

Similar to what I have. I like direct vent for pvc exhaust plus more efficient than B vent units. My house is whole house backup so don’t worry about ignition source of power.

 

[Mtsoxfan]

I would need to run 60 feet of wire. So wire cost could be substantial. I may need a sub panel too but I'm not sure about that.
Eric

Less than $200 for 10g 100'

 

[ning]

The recirc loop in my house is all insulated.
The recirc system in my tankless has a thermostat and it turns off the recirc if it thinks the returned recirc water is hot enough, and when that cools down (in the water heater itself), it turns the recirc back on; the water heater will then fire to warm the loop back up.

Work reasonably well - as long as any hot water use is of sufficient volume for the tankless to bother heating it.

I liked the tank recirc better as it was always instant hot even if you were only using a trickle of hot water, but I could hear the water circulation all the time it was running, and it was running 5am-10pm.

 

[two_bit_score]

It could be a state or local code thing.

FWIW, I just checked through the installation instructions for 8 different randomly selected gas water heaters at Home Depot. Only one required an electrical connection.

@jyoutz, based on the comment BlueKnife made please explain how your comment is related? How is it a "local code thing" that only one water heater needed an electrical connection? I'm just trying to understand your insight here that I must have missed.

 

[kenmac]

My tankless is "ok" for showers; occasionally the hot water stops and I only get cold, but I think that's because it's a very low-flow shower head (particularly because of water deposits making the holes in the shower even smaller) and depending on the heat your "hot" is set at, mixing it down you may have the hot water flow be below the cut-in for the tankless, so it stops heating a very low flow of water. This is part of why I consider tankless to be "possibly energy efficient but not water efficient" since it encourages you to use more water to keep the hot engaged.

don't know what brand you have, But you should have dip switches where you can adjust for low flow, or hotter water

 

[ultrarunner]

Is it extremely well insulated? Or does it just act like a radiator that has been stretched out?

It's well insulated but a long run... and the required low flow aerators and shower heads increase the time for hot water to reach.

I've thought about adding a remote switch in the kitchen to turn on the recirc pump.

When I was spending all my time at mom's house caring for her I wondered why my base line gas use was so high... so I turned if the pump and noticed my gas use for "Empty" home dropped significantly.

 

[ultrarunner]

An alternate approach is to install your water heater in a central location with short runs to the critical areas. This avoids the waste heat/energy of circulating your hot water.

We did both in our build -- plumbed (but didn't connect) for a circulating loop to the master that would trigger the pump based on a motion sensor, but also placed the water heater centrally vs out in the garage. Also insulated all hot water lines.

For showers, it's worked out that there's no need to hook up a recirculation pump. It's about 15s until the water is flowing shower-hot. I do wish the vanity sink warmed up faster, but we also ran dedicated 20A circuits there for an insta-hot if needed.

We hedged our bets as best we could (and probably wasted a decent amount of $$$ in the process), but I'd say that central placement of the WH got us 85% of where we wanted to be.

My gas water heater is in the garage at the opposite end of 3200 square feet home...

If I want a hot bath I turn on the hot full and fill the tub quicky and it all balances out with 1.5 inch 185 psi copper water main reduced to 75 psi..

I also noted the recirc line is 1"... the original owner builder planed for a spa with outdoor shower... so maybe why over built?

 

[ultrarunner]

Here is an article I read some time ago, about the right sizing of pipes and better routing can help get you hot water faster, without a recirc pump.

https://www.jlconline.com/how-to/plumbing/efficient-hot-water-piping_o

Need to register to read but a plumber told me smaller diameter lines require less volume of hit water to destination... so my oversize lines actually work against me but with the recirc pump the hot water is immediate but at a increased gas and electric use.

 

[ultrarunner]

My last home was like this and water always available with no pump.

My water heater is in one end of the basement and I have bathrooms on the 2nd floor at the opposite end of the house. I have a natural circulation hot water loop for those bathrooms and get hot water in 5 seconds without a pump.

 

[BlueKnife]

@jyoutz, based on the comment BlueKnife made please explain how your comment is related? How is it a "local code thing" that only one water heater needed an electrical connection? I'm just trying to understand your insight here that I must have missed.

It's possible that his plumber either lied to him or that there was some miscommunication. It happens.

 

[CliffordK]

About 10 years ago I had tankless natural gas.
It worked reasonably well, except if one turned hot water on and off like washing dishes, one would get blasts of cold water. Perhaps they've fixed that

 

[arto98607]

I think the tankless heaters are pretty good now, but my Rheem conventional natural gas heater is going on 14 years old with zero maintenance (I know I should flush it, etc, but I never do). Life may have something to do with water quality. We have very good municipal water. Also, I'm kind of skeptical of Consumer Reports. They seem to think everything sucks except Japanese cars and Korean appliances.

Also I think CR has gone so green it began to hurt my eyes so I decided not to renew their mag. after some 20 years of subscription!

 

[ning]

don't know what brand you have, But you should have dip switches where you can adjust for low flow, or hotter water

There are dip switches, but they don't adjust the minimum flow condition (at least as per the owner's manual: https://www.takagi.com/media/62108/2000536265.pdf).
I suspect that minimum flow has to do with the minimum flame capability; not enough water flow = way too hot of water even at a minimum flame.

 

[LouNY]

My hot water is an indirect tank off my home boiler. Works great however the oil cost in the summer seems high at times.
I have considered an electric or propane water heater, bit I'm hesitant as most people that I know with boilers that have problems are the ones that get shut down all summer and then they start leaking even often when it's not being used.
When I looked at the heat pump ones I can see them being nice in the summer, but I don't want to further chill my basement in the winter. When we get a forecast for minus teens or lower I go down stairs and open a vent on my heat loops to put some extra heat in the basement so as not to have freeze-ups.

 

[VaGlock]

I am at 38 years on a Rudd (Ruddglass Pacemaker) electric tank water heater, one annode replacement. During winter months we turn the electric off and the water is heated by hot water coil in the wood furnace. Have had no signs of rust or sediment build up at drain. We are on well water, and run a simple whole house sediment filter. Not sure how much longer I want to press my luck.

 

[deserteagle71]

Also I think CR has gone so green it began to hurt my eyes so I decided not to renew their mag. after some 20 years of subscription!

^This. Only I was a subscriber for 40+ years. No more.