Under cabinet water filter recs please

[the old grind]

For twenty years I was wiping fixtures weekly with white vinegar to deal with the calcium from my grandfathered shallow (crock) well 40' from the pond. Filters and softeners won't do anything about it.

After a few years of doubt that it would work at all I bought this in '22. Seems odd but it works. Sinks, tub, shower head, and aerators now go a year or so before needing descaled vs almost monthly. Why did I wait so long to even try it??

Timilge Electronic Water Descaler System, Reduces Limescale, Rust, and Minerals, No Chemicals, Easy Installation: Amazon.com: Tools & Home Improvement

Timilge Electronic Water Descaler System, Reduces Limescale, Rust, and Minerals, No Chemicals, Easy Installation: Amazon.com: Tools & Home Improvement

www.amazon.com

 

[HawkinsHollow]

For twenty years I was wiping fixtures weekly with white vinegar to deal with the calcium from my grandfathered shallow (crock) well 40' from the pond. Filters and softeners won't do anything about it.

After a few years of doubt that it would work at all I bought this in '22. Seems odd but it works. Sinks, tub, shower head, and aerators now go a year or so before needing descaled vs almost monthly. Why did I wait so long to even try it??

Timilge Electronic Water Descaler System, Reduces Limescale, Rust, and Minerals, No Chemicals, Easy Installation: Amazon.com: Tools & Home Improvement

Timilge Electronic Water Descaler System, Reduces Limescale, Rust, and Minerals, No Chemicals, Easy Installation: Amazon.com: Tools & Home Improvement

www.amazon.com

Interesting! I looked at getting one of those when we put our whole house filtration system in. The reviews were mixed, with many people essentially crying snake oil. Glad to see your results with them are positive. In the end it was unnecessary for us because our water really isn't hard at all. Seems like an easy retrofit if someone wanted to add one.

 

[the old grind]

The difference between hardness and calcium has to be understood. They're not the same. It's one reason softeners won't do anything about calcium. My water's PH has always been ~6.5 from the well or the pond, both before and after using the device.

There are other aspects of water quality that influence results. It didn't cost much to see if I'd be one of those with success, and if I hadn't tried it I wouldn't know either way. btw, If I avoided products with bad reviews I wouldn't own my trucks, tractors, car, phone, or computer & might be be cooking road kill over a fire.

 

[Tinhack]

This ^^^^
Also note that no filter will remove dissolved solids. Get a tester and try it. I thought my under-sink filter for my drinking water outlet was cool. Thought the water tasted better. Turns out after getting a digital tester, the TDS (total dissolved solids) and pH were the same as the regular sink outlet. The filter wasn't doing anything to improve the water.

 

[ponytug]

Just to clarify things a bit, RO filters do remove/lower total dissolved solids (TDS) by having a reject water stream with the extra TDS in it and a purified (permeate) stream with the clean(er) purified water, but for any sort of membrane life, they need to be supplied with softened water.

Water softeners have resins inside that exchange sodium ions for magnesium or calcium. Some resin mixtures can even remove some of the sulfate in the feed water. That means that while the TDS stays the same, there aren't insoluble hard water deposits on fixtures or clothing.

Residential Water Softeners - Homeowner Systems | Hellenbrand

Reduce minerals left behind by standard filtration and solve hard water issues affecting your home with one of our residential water softeners.

www.hellenbrand.com

After water softening, an RO filter (membrane) then takes the sodium, and many other ions 90+% out of the water. Our RO takes out 98.7% of all the dissolved solids, but that is very much a YMMV number as the overall efficiency has a lot to do with what exactly the ions and counter ions are in the feed water, the feed pressure difference, the membrane quality and age.

I used to make ultrapure water for work. There are lots of ways to skin the cat, but lots of variables. Drinking water is pretty easy. Kidney dialysis water is harder. Other forms of pure water can be fantastically hard, like clean water for making semiconductors.

But back to @etpm's question: I think it is a question of cost and hassle. Buying soft bottle water is low capital, high hassle, adding a water softener and RO is a capital investment, and maintenance commitment (buying salt, changing filters and membranes) and will not fit under a sink, but might be plumbed to give you soft water throughout the house for improved laundry and ease of cleaning, as well as feed and RO unit for low TDS water.

All the best,

Peter

 

[etpm]

So after reading about removing hardness from water I learned (again!) that a filter isn't going to remove dissolved calcium. I could use a water softener but that is not a viable option for myself and my wife. We don't want to trade sodium for calcium. The upshot is that I need a reverse osmosis device. They have really come down in price and up in flow since I last looked at RO filters 20 or so years ago. It looks like I may buy one. If I do I will report back here with the results. My wife really likes the water cooler we have because the water bottle is stored under the water dispenser and the unit delivers hot, refrigerated, and room temperature water. So we are gonna be keeping it and refilling the 5 gallon water bottles. So either I have to go the the store to refill the 5 gallon jugs or I get one of the RO units and fill 'em at home. Since I also want to install a carbonator because I like soda water an RO unit might just be the very best solution.
Eric

 

[ponytug]

So after reading about removing hardness from water I learned (again!) that a filter isn't going to remove dissolved calcium. I could use a water softener but that is not a viable option for myself and my wife. We don't want to trade sodium for calcium. The upshot is that I need a reverse osmosis device. They have really come down in price and up in flow since I last looked at RO filters 20 or so years ago. It looks like I may buy one. If I do I will report back here with the results. My wife really likes the water cooler we have because the water bottle is stored under the water dispenser and the unit delivers hot, refrigerated, and room temperature water. So we are gonna be keeping it and refilling the 5 gallon water bottles. So either I have to go the the store to refill the 5 gallon jugs or I get one of the RO units and fill 'em at home. Since I also want to install a carbonator because I like soda water an RO unit might just be the very best solution.
Eric

I have some perhaps welcome news. An RO absolutely does require a water softener to swap the calcium with sodium for the RO to work. Otherwise, as the RO concentrates the incoming water as it makes "purer" permeate water, the calcium gets concentrated on the inlet side and will almost certainly precipitate, clogging the RO membrane that cost on the order of $80-120/each.

Unless you and your wife continue to drink tap water, rather than RO water after you install a softener and an RO system, you won't be getting much of any sodium. (Probably on the order in 15ppm max, or about 15mg/liter, 30ppm TDS)

I would suggest buying an RO tank that is at least 10 gallons to make the filling of your water coolers easy, as the RO tank holds about half to two thirds of the rated capacity under normal conditions.

All the best,

Peter

 

[LittleBill21]

If it was me, I'd put a filter housing under the sink, put no filter in and just plumb the line up to a special tap. Your wife will be thrilled and it really won't cost a dime.

 

[etpm]

I have some perhaps welcome news. An RO absolutely does require a water softener to swap the calcium with sodium for the RO to work. Otherwise, as the RO concentrates the incoming water as it makes "purer" permeate water, the calcium gets concentrated on the inlet side and will almost certainly precipitate, clogging the RO membrane that cost on the order of $80-120/each.

Unless you and your wife continue to drink tap water, rather than RO water after you install a softener and an RO system, you won't be getting much of any sodium. (Probably on the order in 15ppm max, or about 15mg/liter, 30ppm TDS)

I would suggest buying an RO tank that is at least 10 gallons to make the filling of your water coolers easy, as the RO tank holds about half to two thirds of the rated capacity under normal conditions.

All the best,

Peter

The units I have been looking at have some sort of flushing business going on that is automatic. Apparently this is to prevent exactly the situation you describe. I know the theory of RO water purification and how the stuff that doesn't make it through the RO membrane gets concentrated and must be removed for the RO process to continue. This is one unit I am looking at: https://ecovivafilters.com/products/wp-ro-600g
It has a 600 gallon per day capacity which is way more than we would ever use and a 2.5:1 filtered water to waste water ratio. So for every 2.5 gallons of filtered water it produces it flushes 1 gallon down the drain. I can live with that. We don't drink that much water.
Eric

 

[etpm]

If it was me, I'd put a filter housing under the sink, put no filter in and just plumb the line up to a special tap. Your wife will be thrilled and it really won't cost a dime.

So in other word just lie to my wife. No dice. Plus, the sink tap doesn't deliver refrigerated or heated water. We have good tasting water, I have the well tested regularly and the water remains good, so I drink the tap water all the time. But the water cooler doesn't tolerate hard water well because it builds up deposits in the hot water part of the machine. So it needs the water to free of calcium and whatever other minerals cause the deposits.
Eric