Trailer with small diesel driving multiple things and a PTO

[Baby Grand]

Tie those shoelaces but good!

 

[Jason14j]

Judging by your profile picture I assume you mean to not let anything get caught in the turning shaft. I'm the type that over engineers everything, safety is first. I plan to have the shaft below the trailer bed and covers over the pulleys and belts, and a cap over the PTO output.

 

[Iplayfarmer]

Cool plan! I want to see it happen. I'm sure you have the talent and ability to figure it all out for yourself, but here are a few suggestions to consider...

Put your heaviest stuff in the middle of the trailer and the lighter stuff on the front and back. I'm guessing the heaviest stuff will be the water tank and the engine. Putting the engine in the middle gives you another option... You can run two different speeds of shaft at the same time... I.e. you could have a higher speed going forward and a lower speed shaft going backward.

Also, putting your water tank in the middle helps balance your load. An empty or full tank will have less of an effect on your tongue weight and trailer balance.

Another thing to consider is that some things you will want running for nearly every project like a generator and/or air compressor. Consider running these with a serpentine belt off the front of your inline 6. Also consider alternative power sources for traditional stuff. Air powered drills and grinders can be used instead of electric to minimize the need for a generator. Some things may only be needed momentarily making the need to engage a pulley system cumbersome. These things might be better powered by electricity, air, or hydraulics as appropriate for quicker on/off options.

Many of these decisions will come down to what you have on hand or what you can find for cheap. If it were me I'd have a minimum of a generator, air compressor, and hydraulic system. Then I'd be able to adapt just about any tool out there for use in the Wonderous Workshop on Wheels.

 

[DAY]

Be aware that you might be infringing on a patent held by Rube Goldberg. . .

Down here (Eastern PA) Amish woodworkers run shop tools powered by compressed air. Which is supplied by their windmill.

You could try that- of course you will have to keep that trailer moving around 55MPH to get 100PSI.:laughing:

 

[Short Game]

Be aware that you might be infringing on a patent held by Rube Goldberg. . .

Henh.

I plan to have the shaft below the trailer bed...

I can see the neighborhood poles sporting "lost cat" fliers.

I hope we're not breaking the No Having Fun Rule here.

I was thinking of a transverse mid-mount engine going to a standard third member with the axles shortened and coupled to your forward and aft shafts. You could box the engine in and soundproof it and even put in a car heater and AC with the fan driven by a belt from your shaft (joking). But with the shaft below decks, the engine could not as easily be over the trailer's axles.

Have Shop -- Will Travel
Wire Jason

 

[mjncad]

If you build it...pix are required; especially during construction and the finished product.

 

[Jason14j]

Thanks for all of the great ideas, the plan in my head is getting clearer. Iplayfarmer - I like the thought of middle placement of heavier items, especially water, maybe two smaller water tanks (one on each side near the wheels). If I could accomplish two seperate shaft speeds that would certainly be benificial but I cant think of a way to do so without additional equipment. The plan thus far is to run the transmission in reverse to achieve 540 RPM shaft speed, the great thing about the transmission is I can shift into 3 different forward gears which (combined with an engine speed change) would allow me to have 3 different torque "settings" and the engine speed could be reduced depending on the workload. The PTO drive definately needs to spin in the proper direction but all the other devices could be designed to run in the opposite direction. I cant think of many situations where I would need PTO and another device running at the same time other than a hydraulic pump. Engaging each device is still a problem, but you may be onto something with the serpentine belt. The air compressor I'm looking at is actually a piston A/C compressor from a 70's volvo which has an oil sump for lubrication rather than oil in the lines like most compressers, the off road guys use these a lot and the output is very impressive. with that setup I could use a conventional belt drive electricly activated clutch. The welder/generator I plan to use is a little too big to run this way though. BUT i could always add a high output alternator and use an inverter for power tools :thumbsup:.
Day- I know your post was simply humor and I see how it may sound to some like a crazy idea. Rube Goldberg devices are amazing in my opinion. I think this idea is the opposite though. Having an electric or gas motor for every device seems a lot more complicated to me, not to mention extension cords everywhere and having to load up and move everything to where you need it. That old 6 cylinder is 44 years old and will see 44 more with the right care. A well designed system using industrial grade components will outlive all those little 10 horsepower engines and small electric motors on multiple peices of equipment.
Short Game- I dont like cats anyway :laughing:. I'm pondering the mid traverse mount engine. Thank you for the idea. Up until now I envisioned a the forward facing engine/transmission above deck with a Harley Davidson style beltdrive passing through the floor to the pulley on the lineshaft. They make a high performance upgrade system that I believe would handle the 6 cylinder with no problems. Have shop will travel, thats my now slogan :laughing:.

 

[Jason14j]

That A/C compressor I mentioned is a York. Look for a 1983 Mustang with the 5.0L V8. Rumor has it that was about the only factory application of a serpentine-belted York compressor. 3 Major versions, 7" 9" or 10" stroke. The 10.3 ci York pumps something like 4 cfm @ 90 psi just off idle and I've seen data showing 10 cfm's at 3000 rpm. That's a lot of air!

 

[Baby Grand]

Judging by your profile picture I assume you mean to not let anything get caught in the turning shaft. I'm the type that over engineers everything, safety is first. I plan to have the shaft below the trailer bed and covers over the pulleys and belts, and a cap over the PTO output.

Excellent!

I used to enjoy visiting my folks in Camden, Maine, when my Dad was still with us. At some point he'd get fed up with affairs at the house and quietly ask me (so Mom and Sis wouldn't hear) "Any interest in taking a walk?". This invariably led to us finding ourselves down in the town, outside the Sea Dog brew pub.
He'd ask "You thirsty?"
I'd say "Sure."
The pub was in an old, brick factory building. Inside was a large bar/restaurant with windows looking out at a waterwheel spillway. The wheel was gone, but the shafting was still in place, up in the ceiling. Beautiful stuff: big pillow blocks, lots of clutches with big levers and 4" wide pulleys for driving the leather belts. Oh yeah - the beer was good, too.

-Jim

 

[Iplayfarmer]

Thanks for all of the great ideas, the plan in my head is getting clearer. Iplayfarmer - I like the thought of middle placement of heavier items, especially water, maybe two smaller water tanks (one on each side near the wheels). If I could accomplish two seperate shaft speeds that would certainly be benificial but I cant think of a way to do so without additional equipment. The plan thus far is to run the transmission in reverse to achieve 540 RPM shaft speed, the great thing about the transmission is I can shift into 3 different forward gears which (combined with an engine speed change) would allow me to have 3 different torque "settings" and the engine speed could be reduced depending on the workload. The PTO drive definately needs to spin in the proper direction but all the other devices could be designed to run in the opposite direction. I cant think of many situations where I would need PTO and another device running at the same time other than a hydraulic pump. Engaging each device is still a problem, but you may be onto something with the serpentine belt. The air compressor I'm looking at is actually a piston A/C compressor from a 70's volvo which has an oil sump for lubrication rather than oil in the lines like most compressers, the off road guys use these a lot and the output is very impressive. with that setup I could use a conventional belt drive electricly activated clutch. The welder/generator I plan to use is a little too big to run this way though. BUT i could always add a high output alternator and use an inverter for power tools :thumbsup:.
Day- I know your post was simply humor and I see how it may sound to some like a crazy idea. Rube Goldberg devices are amazing in my opinion. I think this idea is the opposite though. Having an electric or gas motor for every device seems a lot more complicated to me, not to mention extension cords everywhere and having to load up and move everything to where you need it. That old 6 cylinder is 44 years old and will see 44 more with the right care. A well designed system using industrial grade components will outlive all those little 10 horsepower engines and small electric motors on multiple peices of equipment.
Short Game- I dont like cats anyway :laughing:. I'm pondering the mid traverse mount engine. Thank you for the idea. Up until now I envisioned a the forward facing engine/transmission above deck with a Harley Davidson style beltdrive passing through the floor to the pulley on the lineshaft. They make a high performance upgrade system that I believe would handle the 6 cylinder with no problems. Have shop will travel, thats my now slogan :laughing:.

I like how your plan is coming together. You might consider an unloader valve on your compressor vs. an electric clutch. It seems that's how most engine driven compressors are set up. Also, If you can find a generator head instead of an inverter you might be more happy with the results. Of course you already mentioned that you're planning a welder/generator combination, so that might meet your needs just fine. Keep us posted as your plan develops. I love this kind of project!

Have fun in Seattle.

 

[Short Game]

I'm assuming this car carrier has two axles. Depending on spring travel and clearances, with the shaft height just below the deck, a reinforced motor mount cradle could possibly be formed into the frame between the axles, and the third member's carrier and axle housings could be made into a very strong stressed member of the opposite frame rail. (Afterthought, if not rubber mounted, any of your power and drive components will telegraph noise into your frame and deck -- probably a perfect soundboard.)

I'm picturing the engine side as the street side, putting the engine noise, radiator grill, and exhausts away from the sidewalk. The sound proofed engine box could be under a work bench, making that space still highly usable.

Top gear in non-overdrive transmissions is 1:1. Third members are reduction gears (4.11:1 etc. for example) Consider that max torque RPM won't be needed for many of your operations, and the fuel needed to maintain your desired RPM could mean pouring gas down the drain, so to speak.

 

[DAY]

Air powered tools- from nail guns and impact wrenches to jack hammers- are readily available. And diesel powered air compressors are found at every highway construction site today. just add the pickup truck full of tools- and lots of hose!

Of course, your "contraption" sounds like a lot more fun to build, -and a lot more fun for us, when you post the pictures!

 

[Jason14j]

I should let everyone know it will be a while before I can get started on this contraption. I am in Iraq and won't be home until late September sometime and have a lot of catching up to do with family. For now, I hope to use my spare time wisely and design something that will be fun to build. I am am in the Army Reserves and my regular job is with a company many of you are familiar with, Airgas.
I hope to have a concept sketch ready in the near future. Short game, the more I think about the third member it sounds better. 3.73:1 is a common ratio in those, if I had the tanny in 3rd gear (1:1) it would give me a final output of 540 RPM at an engine speed of 2000 RPM. Iplayfarmer, I never knew what an unloader valve was before today. If I'm understanding correctly it releases the pressure from the tank just before the compresser turns on to make startup smoother. I definately see a use for it here. Day, you cant weld with an air compresser, or maybe it could work if.....:confused2:

 

[DAY]

"Day, you cant weld with an air compresser, or maybe it could work if.....:confused2:"

Ya got me there!

Although, a plasma torch is basically super heated (25k-45k degrees) air, with a little electricity thrown in:thumbsup: And windmills generate electricity, so an air driven mini turbine could turn a generator. Here is where the ghost of Mr. Goldberg needs to sign in:laughing:

 

[Iplayfarmer]

...I never knew what an unloader valve was before today. If I'm understanding correctly it releases the pressure from the tank just before the compresser turns on to make startup smoother. I definately see a use for it here...

I probably have my terminology wrong. I'm thinking of the valve that trips when a compressor reaches the set point. The valve routes the air to the atmosphere rather than the tank until the tank pressure drops below the low pressure set point again.

Someone bail me out here and tell us what this kind of valve is called.

 

[beppington]

I probably have my terminology wrong. I'm thinking of the valve that trips when a compressor reaches the set point. The valve routes the air to the atmosphere rather than the tank until the tank pressure drops below the low pressure set point again.

Someone bail me out here and tell us what this kind of valve is called.

I think you have it right.

Here's an article on how air compressors work, & it includes the line "The pressure switch may also incorporate an unloader valve that reduces tank pressure when the compressor is turned off."

 

[Short Game]

... tell us what this kind of valve is called.

I just dealt with the unloader valve on a compressor of my own. It releases the pressure between the piston and a check valve near the tank at high pressure shutoff, so the compressor motor doesn't have to start up by pushing the piston against the remaining pressure in the tank.

 

[deereman75]

I would HIGHLY recomend you use electric induction motors for powering the machines insted of a shaft and belts. There is a reason that system is never used anymore. If I was doing this, I would have the engine drive an old belt drive generator. If you found a 3 phase generator, you could make use of 3 phase machines which are normaly worth much less used then single phase machines.

Although if you really want to do it this way it will work, but here is some advice. If you can, use overhead belts, this is the most common setup of old shops, because they do not waist any space, and in a trailer you cant afford to. Also, try to find old flat belt drive machines, they are designed to work this way, and you might be able to find them fairly cheep, with enough serching. Last, I would not have a water tank for the pressure washer, it will take up way too much space, and get in the way. If you need to use a pressure washer, go somewhere with a tap.

 

[kubotakid USA]

Frankly, I think the idea is crazy, And will only be (GOOD), for a conversation piece, a parade piece, Maybe, A I bet I can stunt,. or somthing osha, would use as a dont do it like this, POSTER, lololol.... And trust me, I dont care what osha thinks, Doing what you are thinking,..Instead of using a generator, is a one or two things, depending on your mentality, either,..stupid, or funny,.. Iam going with both, This is good john material, Iam lookin forward to more Rube Goldberg idols to help further your idea, a nice break from reality Eric

 

[Jason14j]

Attached (I hope) is a sketch of what I have in mind. I dont think its quite as complicated or dangerous as some of you inagined. The red dotted line is the shaft which is below the deck, belts would pass through holes cut in the floor. For power you can see the inline 6 engine, transmission, and shortened differential (output calculated to be 540 RPM at 2000 engine RPM). Weight looks to be fairly evenly distributed. I dont plan to stand on the trailer or use any part of it as workspace (for safety). I didnt label it but the green thing on the front of the engine is the air compressor.