synthetic oil

425trailer · Sep 29, 2004

Those of you who have switched to a synthetic hydraulic oil, have you experianced lower operating temperatures/increased performance in cold weather? I have no experiance with synthetics in hydraulics or engines, but at work I've seen the difference it made in air compressors. The cooler operating and lower amp draw made the conventional oil obsolete. I am usually rather skepticle about product claims and would like to hear of solid proven results. Thanks!

BobRip · Sep 30, 2004

I have been using synthetic oil in the engine and transmission. I can't say that I notice a difference. With the engine you don't have to change the oil if the outdoor temperature changes. With the transmission, I once sprung a leak in the stump grinder shaft seal and pumped out a lot of Mobil 1. $100 of Mobil 1 later I am back in business. I have not done any temperature measurements.

MuncyBob · Oct 8, 2004

I just switched over to Mobil 1 in our 1998 Jimmy with apprx 56k miles on it.....drove it for the first time yesterday since the change 2 weeks ago(mainly the wife's car) and I did see a definate drop in engine temp..at least that's what the dash gague indicates......and I was thinking of switching over the PT @ 100 hours to the same oil but I read today in a previous post by Jack @ Robin that he does not think synth. oil is a good idea in the Robin engine although he did not indicate why(I've sent him an email for explanation).

Phils · Oct 8, 2004

Please pass on what he says about synthetic oil. I'm currently getting my 422 order together with Scott (and only back to June in previous posts, still reading). But I've used synthetic oil for 25 years in everything from a weedeater to a Kenworth. It has saved me many thousands of dollars over the years (I could write a book) and I can't imagine NOT using it in this little green tractor that I've already started bonding with (it'll get worse when I actually GET it!!).

J_J · Oct 8, 2004

If you are going to switch to synthetic oil, at least wait until the warranty is over on the engine.

tracdoc · Oct 8, 2004

( I was thinking of switching over the PT @ 100 hours to the same oil but I read today in a previous post by Jack @ Robin that he does not think synth. oil is a good idea in the Robin engine although he did not indicate why )

I can't think of any technical reason NOT to use synthetic oil in these engines. They work hard at 3600 +/- rpm, and I've never seen any evidence (as opposed to pipe smokin' opinions) that would implicate syn oil as a cause of engine failure.

Take a look at the following thread in the BOBISTHEIOLGUY forum:
Synthetic Oil in small gas engines
It appeared back in May this year. The specific query was about a smaller Robin engine. There was a similar opinion by the dealer, but no hard facts from Robin to support the opinion. The Oil Forum has an entire section devoted to lube of CUT,LT, etc. engines, and some pretty knowledgeable petro engineer types frequent the forum. If you look around, you will probably come up with the same information time and again. Synthetic (PAO based) oils can not harm any engine. Before I get dumped upon, I will clarify by noting that older, high hour/mileage engines may develop leaks w/ syn oil.

It may be that the mfrs want to CYA, expecting that owners who use syn oil will neglect regular interval oil changes. As indicated in that thread, B&S originally had a negative attitude toward syn oils, but changed, adding a caveat to underscore regular interval oil changes.

MossRoad · Oct 8, 2004

I doubt you will get dumped on. Most folks are very impressed with the synthetic lubes.

JJT · Oct 8, 2004

( If you are going to switch to synthetic oil, at least wait until the warranty is over on the engine. )

JJ why wait for the warrantee to expire? My dealer said I could switch right away. Easier cold starts, less wear, long drain intervals. It's all upside in my book.

425trailer · Oct 8, 2004

Thanks everyone for the feedback. It seems to me that concerning the best lubricants there must be many more opinions than real answeres, (not in this string, but in general) , I still welcome more results on using other than motor oil for the hydraulics, cooler running and easier cold starting would both be a plus. I have 120 hrs on the 425 with no real problems thus far. I just want to keep it that way.

FOURTEEN · Oct 9, 2004

“”switching over the PT @ 100 hours “”

That should give the engine a sufficient break-in period.

"" I did see a definate drop in engine temp ""

/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gifYou did!!??!! /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Your Jimmy has a water cooled engine that is thermostatically controlled. The thermostat should maintain engine temperature at 195 degrees during normal operation, unless it is overheating!! If your engine temperature varies after warm up and under normal conditions, your thermostat may need replacing! The synthetic oil may very well help the engine produce less waste heat, but the operating temperature and gauge should not change if the thermostat is working properly!! /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

“” he does not think synth. oil is a good idea in the Robin engine although he did not indicate why “”

Perhaps because the synthetic oil would delay your purchase of a replacement PT or engine!!

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FOURTEEN · Oct 9, 2004

“” Easier cold starts, less wear, long drain intervals. “”

Yes! Yes! No!!
/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gifFor the small amount of oil used, and the small amount of money saved, longer drain intervals can NOT be justified for a small hard working air cooled engine!! /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

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FOURTEEN · Oct 9, 2004

I use Amsoil Synthetic throughout! Motor Oil, Hydraulic Oil, and Grease!!

No problems so far!!
However, it's like Daytime Running Lights. If you have them, and you haven't had a head on collision, how do you prove that the reason is the DRL?? Maybe you wouldn’t have had a collision without them anyway! And, if you had a collision with DRL, does that mean that they are no good??
Amsoil and DRL both make me feel just a little safer!!

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MuncyBob · Oct 9, 2004

I agree with not waiting any longer time for a filter change...but I was contemplating a longer interval for the oil change. Something like filter every 3k miles and oil every 6k.......if the filter is working properly is there any major problem with this?

As for the Jimmy...I'm probably going by memory(bad idea!) on what the engine temp was previously to the oil change over...but the dash now reads slightly over 120 degrees...maybe the gague is wrong? Recently had the engine flushed and the thermostat replaced.

Charolais · Oct 9, 2004

( I use Amsoil Synthetic throughout! Motor Oil, Hydraulic Oil, and Grease!! )

I use Amsoil too. Have been since 1988. I use the 15w-40 heavy duty diesel oil for my 2610 Long and in the Farmtrac 80. And like you I also use the Hydraulic Oil, and Grease. The only way I would use extended drain on the tractors is to have a sample tested. I don't run that many hours per year and just change at 12 months. That's about the 300 hours anyway. On the hydraulic oil I will send samples and will run it as long as possible.

I feed cattle daily in the winter. The tractors do start better on those cold mornings with the Amsoil. I put in the hydraulic oil about 2 years ago in the Long and don't have to wait for it to warm up when it's 5 deg. out there now. I use a hydraulic motor to unroll the hay when feeding. It sure helped when it's cold and no more squeeling noise out of that motor.

I do run extended drains for highway vehicles. They are all gas engines. I've run as much as 18,000 miles on an oil change. Most are in the 14,000 to 16,000 range. I change the filters at 6 months and top off to the full mark. Haven't had any problems and have one engine that has had one oil change per year since 1992. Still take the kids to school every day.

I like to change gear boxes over to synthetic after about 10 hours of use when new. That Long has final drives and once I got the Amsoil gear oil in those they sure stopped clucking and poping. Very smooth now.

The gear shifting on the Long is much smoother with the Amsoil Hydraulic Oil also.

Amsoil isn't a cure it's an inhancement. Use it right and it'll save you money. With todays machinery prices I want those machines to run for many many years.

FOURTEEN · Oct 10, 2004

“” if the filter is working properly is there any major problem with this? “”

The filter only removes solid particulate matter from the oil. It does not remove the acids, gums, and gasoline from the oil.
Perhaps a compromise of 4000 miles to change both oil and filter would be appropriate!

“” the dash now reads slightly over 120 degrees...maybe the gague is wrong? “”

Something is definitely amiss!! Most modern gasoline cars and trucks require a constant 195 degrees for the engine to operate efficiently and meet EPA standards. (Pre-EPA 180 was the norm.) If the gauge is correct, your engine is running cold, resulting in poor fuel mileage, oil dilution, and high emissions! You should have it checked immediately as either the gauge, or the thermostat, is defective!!

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Schultz · Oct 11, 2004

There shouldn't be any problem with extending your oil change interval. Not because of cost but convenience and conservation, the oil doesn’t ware out, it just needs to be filtered properly and it will last a lot longer. I use the syn 5-50w in my Onan along with a Pure 1 filter. With regular oil and Onan filter it would be black after 25hrs, now it takes over a hundred hours to get the same color. I would say 75% of the difference is in the filter but some of it is the synthetic oil.

Another, but similar story. My Taurus 3.0l 24v engine would get 5k oil changes, where the oil was pretty black. I would also have to add about a quart around 3500 miles. With 0-30w syn I add no make up oil and I now use a Trasko bypass/full flow filter. The oil never gets any darker than an amber brown even after 8k miles and so I don't plan to change the oil but every 15-20k miles now, but I do change the filter every 5k and ad the necessary make up oil. Again a key point is the filtration.

A great add on to these little engines would be a bypass filter. Amsoil makes them for small engines, or Trasko has a bypass/full flow filter that will likely fit your exsisting spin-on its 3.5OD x 3.5 long or a 3.5OD x 4.5 long with 3/4-16 threads w/ internal bypass valve and anti-dranback valve. Both companies offer relocation kits for the filter, so if it’s too hard to get to this may be another option.

Trasko Bypass/full flow filters

Amsoil bypass filters

There are many others that make good bypass filters if your interested I can post others. I think the above two are the easiest to install, especially the Trasko since is just screws on in place of your old one.

JackRobin · Oct 14, 2004

I think I have to put my personal two cents regarding using synthetic oil in the small engines.

I think it's a big waste of money, the synthetic oil in the small engine is a perfect solution for enviroments such as Alaska or Northern Canada, where the temperatures are reaching close to -35 - 40 degrees.

Regards,

Jack Gawecki
Robin America, Inc.
Technical Support Dept.

MossRoad · Oct 14, 2004

Duck and cover, Jack! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Bird · Oct 14, 2004

Yep, Jack, you'll probably find a lot of folks who disagree with you, but that's the same conclusion that was written up several years ago for truck engines in one of the RV magazines I subscribed to. Of course, since it was about ten years ago, engines have changed so I don't know whether that would still be their recommendation or not.

Schultz · Oct 15, 2004

No, problem Jack, I respect your opinion. That's what these boards are all about: sharing and friendly debating.

Jack, you've got me, I have no engineering data backing up that synthetics are better, but there is a difference: my car didn't burn any oil between changes using synthetic as it did before with relatively the same grade regular oils of many brands. I more or less switched to synthetics as an added level of assurance for running the oil longer. When I did switch I noticed the extras I mentioned and consistently an extra 20-30 miles per tank of gas. The filtration that I mentioned can be applied to any oil and would lengthen the oil change interval and likely lengthen the engine life too since more particulate is filtered out. Lengthening the life of the Robin, Kohler, Deutz or car engine isn’t usually an issue. So then, it boils down to a convenience and conservation.