Spencer's Pole Barn Project

[Spencer]

Re: Spencer\'s Pole Barn Project

I put a 45 degree fitting on the end of the conduit feeding this panel out by the transformer. I thought it would be easier on the wire than the way I did the first one over in the pole building.

 

[Spencer]

Re: Spencer\'s Pole Barn Project

OK, this panel is all wired up and ready to go. I hooked into the "Feed-Through" lugs on the bottom of this panel. That way I get the full 200 amps from the main breaker at the top and I still have all 8 spaces left in the panel for future use. Most panels don't have this "Feed-Through" feature, you have to get a special panel.

I had to do some dangerous maneuvering to get the wires into those feed-through lugs. The wires were too short to be able to bend them so I had to unbolt the whole brown section of the panel and lift it up. Then I positioned the wires below the feed-through lugs and lowered the whole brown section onto the wires. What makes this dangerous is that those wires feeding the main breaker are live. It would have been a hassle to get the power company back out here to pull the meter to shut off the power so I just carefully did it this way.

Don't try this at home.

 

[Spencer]

Re: Spencer\'s Pole Barn Project

Now, back to the panel in the pole barn. I hooked up these two 20 amp GFCI (ground fault circuit interupter) receptacles for temporary power. I wired each receptacle with 12 gauge wire and put each on it's own 20 amp breaker. I put my GFCI tester on there just to make sure they were working properly (they were).

 

[Spencer]

Re: Spencer\'s Pole Barn Project

Last picture in this series.

Everything is complete and it didn't even take me until winter to get it done. I have a 90 amp temporary power panel on order. It is a NEMA TYPE 3R RAINPROOF panel with three outlets in it. It has a NEMA 14-50R 125/250 volt, a NEMA 6-20R 250 volt, and a NEMA 5-20R 125 volt GFCI receptacle each with its own breaker all in one package. I will hook that up in the pole barn until the barn is finished and then I will mount it out on the panel in the woods by the transformer so I will have power out there too.

 

[Spencer]

Re: Spencer\'s Pole Barn Project

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Last picture in this series. )</font>

Oops, just one more picture. I forgot to show you a before and after of the new driveway. You can see I now have a straight shot into the pole barn.

 

[Inspector507]

Re: Spencer\'s Pole Barn Project

Spencer,
I'd have to give you a <font color="green"> green </font> tag on that installation..........great pics /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[OkeeDon]

Re: Spencer\'s Pole Barn Project

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I went down the the lumber yard on Saturday morning to rent this Ditch Witch trencher. It is rated at 4" wide by 24" deep. I had very high hopes that this was going to be easy. )</font>

And, after my experience running a Ditch Witch through only 40' linear feet of cement-like hard pan to install a gas line, I was expecting you to say that it didn't turn out so easy. But, after seeing your pics of that beautiful 400+ foot trench, it looks like you mastered that task pretty good.

Also, nice, subtle job of blurring on the one pic - you know the one I mean /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif.

I'm going to consolidate the highlights of this part of your saga to take with me to my planning session with Florida Power & Light (sometimes known as Florida Flicker and Flash) as we start building. It will be a pole-mounted transformer but all on-site wring will be underground. The pole I suspect they will use is in the middle of the 780' length of our property, so it will be almost 400' down the road to the gate, and about 300' or so the other direction, past the house to the barn.

 

[Bird]

Re: Spencer\'s Pole Barn Project

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( It would have been a hassle to get the power company back out here to pull the meter to shut off the power )</font>

I don't know about your power company, but when I had some work to do like that, I just called the power company one Friday and told them that I was going to pull my meter to do the work over the weekend, and they said that was fine, they sent someone out the following week to put a new seal on the meter.

 

[MikePA]

Re: Spencer\'s Pole Barn Project

<font color="blue"> You can see I now have a straight shot into the pole barn. </font>
Spencer, first, great electrical job and the pics were great. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

The only advantage I see to your original driveway was that it somewhat 'hid' the barn from people driving by on the road. Now, both you and them, will be able to peer into the barn. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

 

[Spencer]

Re: Spencer\'s Pole Barn Project

Inspector, thanks for the approval. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I do have a question on the bonding straps for you. I think I remember you saying a few months back that you treat main panels and subpanels differently. In this picture of the panel out by the transformer you can see that I don't have separate ground and neutral bars. I installed the two ground rods that we talked about earlier and everything including the bonding strap is connected to that one bar.

When I talked to the interim electrical inspector last week he said that I would be better off not calling the panel in the pole barn a subpanel because then I would need to have four wires in the trench instead of three. He said I would need to put in one ground rod at the pole barn panel anyway so just call it a main panel and put in two ground rods, calling the panel out by the transformer more of a disconnect. So I did just trench in three wires and put two ground rods in at the pole barn panel. As you can see in this picture I do have separate ground and neutral bars in the panel in the pole barn. The bonding strap came attached to the neutral bar and that is the way I have left it. Do you think I should leave it attached or disconnect it?

 

[Spencer]

Re: Spencer\'s Pole Barn Project

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( And, after my experience running a Ditch Witch through only 40' linear feet of cement-like hard pan to install a gas line, I was expecting you to say that it didn't turn out so easy. But, after seeing your pics of that beautiful 400+ foot trench, it looks like you mastered that task pretty good.
)</font>

Don, it wasn't easy at all. The tires on the trencher would load up with the soft sand. The tires looked like they were bald because they had so much sand on them. I kept having to kick the tires to try and knock the sand off of them. There were times when the trencher would just not move any further. For liability reasons I cannot explain my solution to this problem at this time.

 

[Spencer]

Re: Spencer\'s Pole Barn Project

<font color="red"> ( It would have been a hassle to get the power company back out here to pull the meter to shut off the power ) </font>

<font color="blue"> I don't know about your power company, but when I had some work to do like that, I just called the power company one Friday and told them that I was going to pull my meter to do the work over the weekend, and they said that was fine, they sent someone out the following week to put a new seal on the meter. </font>

Bird, it was a Sunday when I was trying to hook up this panel and I really wanted to get it finished. I probably could have waited until Monday and given them a call but I decided to do it the hard way. Everything turned out fine but it was an unnecessary risk I took. I have been working on the barn for more than a year and it is still going to be a while before it is finished. Waiting another day or two for power shouldn't have been a big deal in the scheme of things. I was bad, bad, bad!

 

[Spencer]

Re: Spencer\'s Pole Barn Project

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( The only advantage I see to your original driveway was that it somewhat 'hid' the barn from people driving by on the road. Now, both you and them, will be able to peer into the barn. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif )</font>

Mike, I have attached an arial photo with some overlays on it. Our driveway easement is quite long and takes a few turns. The only people who go down the easement are us, our neighbors, and delivery vehicles. Everyone who has been back here who is familiar with this area has said they had no idea that any houses were back here.

 

[OkeeDon]

Re: Spencer\'s Pole Barn Project

<font color="blue"> For liability reasons I cannot explain my solution to this problem at this time.
</font>

I told you not to hook up that Little League team in harness to pull the trencher. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I'm sorry it was not all that easy, but in a perverse way I'm gratified to find out I'm not the only person who has learned to hate those darn things. I'm going to have a lot of trenches to dig over the next few months - electric, water (to several locations), LP gas (the tank will be at the gate so the heavy truck doesn't have to use my road), gate control, possible gate video, sewage line from barn to septic (using a pump at the barn), internet cable (from the barn to the house), irrigation (around the house) and probably a couple of things I haven't thought of, yet. I'm working on a master plan for all of it and hope to rent a serious piece of equipment to do most of it at one time.

 

[kemartin3]

Re: Spencer\'s Pole Barn Project

Don,

I've never used one of the walk-behind models like Spencer did, but did rent one of the ride-on versions when digging the gutter drains on my house. It was about the size of the rigs you see the cable guys use to slice their cable into the ground. I dug 700-800 feet of drain line (12-18" down) in a matter of an hour or two. Because of the bigger tires, weight, and 4WD it went where you pointed it, period, while you sat on top with a cup of coffee. My rental yard has a deal where you pay for Saturday and Sunday is free. They delivered and picked up for about $375. One of the best things I ever did for myself.

 

[Henro]

Re: Spencer\'s Pole Barn Project

Spencer,

After reading your recent posts and reflecting on what you have accommplished, I couldn't help but think..."Boy, I wish I had Spencer's energy!

Then I realized I did once have "Spencer's energy!" Past tense is the operative tense here... /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Now it is all I can do to get my projects done without having a job to go to... /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif on the energy part, but /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif on the retirement part... /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Keep up the hard work! Do you expect to get the other half of the roof on before the snow flies?

 

[Spencer]

Re: Spencer\'s Pole Barn Project

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Keep up the hard work! Do you expect to get the other half of the roof on before the snow flies? )</font>

It all depends but I am hoping to get it on. The more work I have the more money I will have but the less time. The less work I have the more time I will have but no money /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

I am wondering instead of the Projects forum I should have put this in the Build-It Yourself forum /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Inspector507]

Re: Spencer\'s Pole Barn Project

Spencer,
To answer your electric question, you have it wired correctly. The interim inspector's terminology may not be correct, but you're doing it right. you CAN wire a subpanel with 3 wires if you do it right, and you have /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Another <font color="green"> green </font> tag for you

 

[Phred]

Re: Spencer\'s Pole Barn Project

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I'm sorry it was not all that easy, but in a perverse way I'm gratified to find out I'm not the only person who has learned to hate those darn things. )</font>

Count me in on that one too. Two problems with those units:
1) They are a bear to turn even small angles you have to wrestle it around.
2) The one I rented had "rock" teeth. I think this means they run and hide from rocks because they sure do not do a good job of cutting through even baseball size rocks.

I have done it this way and also rented a mini-excavator. The mini-ex is by far the better way. Much faster and you can create any depth and width you want. Most rental yards get ~$200 for a mini-excvator for a weekend. Worth every penny.

Fred

 

[Slamfire]

Re: Spencer\'s Pole Barn Project

Bill I had that kind of energy once too, but wasted it running around the mountain west in pursuit of low fat meat. It must have been wasted, I ate the meat, but got a bum ticker anyway.