Running Electric service

[ch47dpilot]

I'm currently in the process of planning out my home on my 28 acre hobby farm and am looking for ideas on the electric service. The run to the main house is about 650ft and then another 150-200 to the barns. My wife and I would like to have as limited amount of above ground service so that we don't have power poles in our beautiful view off the front porch. I'm interested in what people have done to cover these distances but not had overhead service. I think the only two options would be to run the 200v 400Amp service the full distance, but then everyone I've talked to says I'll probably get to much voltage drop. The other option is to convince the power company to run the high voltage service underground and the put the transformer about 50ft from the home and then only 100ft to the barns. If anyone has a different idea or worked with the power company providing the high voltage service underground let me know what I should do.

 

[MikeInEburg]

The other option is to convince the power company to run the high voltage service underground and the put the transformer about 50ft from the home and then only 100ft to the barns. If anyone has a different idea or worked with the power company providing the high voltage service underground let me know what I should do.

In our area that is exactly how it would go - high voltage to a good location, then a transformer on a concrete pad. Every day occurrence here. Have you spoken with your local utility co?
Mike

 

[Samandothers]

The 240/120 line can not run too far because of voltage drop. With 650 ft you will have to run a higher voltage line back to within a couple hundred feet and then a transformer. The closer the better to limit voltage drop and flicker when motors start on compressors etc.
As suggested by Mike talk to your utility they can help you. Depending on their service regulations they may allow UG free. It could be more expensive for them to run overhead if they have to cut right of way to get back to your place. Maybe you can dig the trench for them and get a cost break. If you do your trench and also back fill after they install cable keep it free of rock. Rock against cable is not good.

 

[RobA]

We're having a house built right now that is about 2,100 feet from the road. Power company will lay high voltage cable to a transformer box about 50 feet from the house. They pay for the cable, I pay for the excavator.

 

[504piper]

the electric co. was more than happy to run my 200' under ground. no poles to look at or ice on the lines. they instaled a transformer around 50' from the house a sq. box just siting on the ground. this was in 93 and only charged .05cents per ft. i ran a under ground line to the barn from the braker box in the house . with no problems.:thumbsup:

 

[whistlepig]

We have underground electric for our house run to a transformer on a pad 600 feet from the road. Our barn is 200 feet from the house. Our barn has 100 amp electric and the wiring for it is underground. We have had this set up 12 years with zero problems. When ice storms come, like the one predicted tomorrow, the underground wiring is comforting to have.

 

[BruceWard]

I believe the matter of who pays for what varies state to state. In Arkansas I am building a house and have 700' of conduit buried for Entergy to install high voltage line to a transformer that will be outside my house. Entergy would have provided 800' of overhead line for free, including 3 poles. I have to pay the difference in cost of underground service. I installed the conduit to save on cost. My cost is around $900 on top of trenching and conduit.

The service line from the transformer to the meter is much more expensive than the high voltage line so I placed the transformer about 20' from the house.

 

[grsthegreat]

im an electrical contractor located in Idaho. You can feed a house located 600 feet from the transformer, but you have to severely upsize the feeder wires. For example, if the transformer was 50 feet from the house, a 4/0 alum feeder would work. but at 600 feet, to maintain the same voltage drop, you may need a wire size of 500 MCM aluminum. i didn't run the exact figures, but i did a shop reciently that was 500 feet from the 400 amp service and thats how its calced out. id check with the utility . here they charge $10/foot to relocate the transformer. 600 ft = $6,000. i think 600 feet x 3 runs of 500 mcm wire would be cheeper...but not by much. also, it depends on your loads. if you use a heat pump system, a large voltage drop to your residence will probibly cause the lights to dim when the system kicks in. If you never expect to have large loads ... maybe you wouldnt notice any difference. ..but i personally would not risk it. What i tend to do with new properties (AND I DID ON MY OWN) IS TO LOCATE A 400 AMP meter with 2 - 200 amp breakers and a small sub panel equil distance between the house and the future shops. set this 50-60 feet from each. then have utility place transformer next to this meter.then you have your electrician run the 60 foot feeds to the house (200 amp) and 60 foot feeds to shop. I usually insta;ll my meter section with the small subpanel so i can add future things later...like wells, water trough heaters, etc. hope this helped

 

[whistlepig]

im an electrical contractor located in Idaho. You can feed a house located 600 feet from the transformer, but you have to severely upsize the feeder wires. For example, if the transformer was 50 feet from the house, a 4/0 alum feeder would work. but at 600 feet, to maintain the same voltage drop, you may need a wire size of 500 MCM aluminum. i didn't run the exact figures, but i did a shop reciently that was 500 feet from the 400 amp service and thats how its calced out. id check with the utility . here they charge $10/foot to relocate the transformer. 600 ft = $6,000. i think 600 feet x 3 runs of 500 mcm wire would be cheeper...but not by much. also, it depends on your loads. if you use a heat pump system, a large voltage drop to your residence will probibly cause the lights to dim when the system kicks in. If you never expect to have large loads ... maybe you wouldnt notice any difference. ..but i personally would not risk it. What i tend to do with new properties (AND I DID ON MY OWN) IS TO LOCATE A 400 AMP meter with 2 - 200 amp breakers and a small sub panel equil distance between the house and the future shops. set this 50-60 feet from each. then have utility place transformer next to this meter.then you have your electrician run the 60 foot feeds to the house (200 amp) and 60 foot feeds to shop. I usually insta;ll my meter section with the small subpanel so i can add future things later...like wells, water trough heaters, etc. hope this helped

Our house was built in 1999. We bought it four years ago. I have no knowledge of the cost or size wiring that was used to feed our transformer that is 600' from the road. We have geothermal here. Pretty much a super sized heat pump. We have no issues with the lights dimming when the geothermal kicks on. This set up works and works very well. I wish I could contribute with the cost of this but I can not.

 

[eepete]

I suspect by now it's clear that you need to talk to your power company and see how things are done in your area.

I have a high voltage line for 800', then a 100' run to the house.

When I had a big track loader in here, I cleared a path through the woods for the high voltage drop, it was about 10 feet wide. When the power company showed up to price the options of buried vs. arial, they were about the same because they just had to run a trencher for buried but would have to take out more trees to clear a path for the arial. The arial had the potential of having more maintenance cost down the road. There is a preference for buried even though it cost more. So an hour of track hoe time saved a bunch of money and I got buried.

I do have to cut any trees that start to grow in the 10' easement. This keeps roots from trees away from the buried line, and allows access if there is a problem. Where I used to live, we had a buried line in a subdivision that got blown when there was a lightning strike out at the pole where the line when underground. The key concept here is that you'll need to keep the easement open and you should factor that into your site and maintenance plans.

Pete

 

[NIdaho]

...but i personally would not risk it. What i tend to do with new properties (AND I DID ON MY OWN) IS TO LOCATE A 400 AMP meter with 2 - 200 amp breakers and a small sub panel equil distance between the house and the future shops. set this 50-60 feet from each. then have utility place transformer next to this meter.then you have your electrician run the 60 foot feeds to the house (200 amp) and 60 foot feeds to shop. I usually insta;ll my meter section with the small subpanel so i can add future things later...like wells, water trough heaters, etc. hope this helped

Great Minds think alike!

I would also recommend (and what I did at our place) using a meter pedestal. I then ran feeds to the house, to the Well, and to the Shop. In my case the Well was between the house and the shop (not directly but close) so the pedestal is actually closest to it. The house, well, and shop each have their own panels (that are actually sub-panels from the pedestal). All of the wiring is underground. At our lake place in Montana the feed is overhead with a panel on the pole and then the feeds to the cabin and well are underground.

grsthegreat, where are you located at? I am North of Rathdrum in the Twin Lakes area.

 

[ch47dpilot]

Thanks a lot for all the info. I already figured I'd get the best advice from the PWR company but was afraid there may have been large expenses with underground, it appears not from what has been said. As far as the trench, how deep and wide? I know it's dependent on location, we have now frost issue in Alabama. I have an old case trencher(16+4) and does about a 6" x 3-4ft deep trench. Can't increase the depth but the width can go to 12". Will this work or will I need to get a bigger unit to go deeper.

 

[RobA]

As far as the trench, how deep and wide? I know it's dependent on location, we have now frost issue in Alabama. I have an old case trencher(16+4) and does about a 6" x 3-4ft deep trench. Can't increase the depth but the width can go to 12". Will this work or will I need to get a bigger unit to go deeper.

My power company dictated the trench requirements, fill material and wanted the power cable lower than anything else in the trench (phone, cable, etc). They wouldn't do overhead power lines and wouldn't allow me to run conduit except for under the driveway and creek.

I think you really need to contact your local power company.

 

[grsthegreat]

Great Minds think alike!

I would also recommend (and what I did at our place) using a meter pedestal. I then ran feeds to the house, to the Well, and to the Shop. In my case the Well was between the house and the shop (not directly but close) so the pedestal is actually closest to it. The house, well, and shop each have their own panels (that are actually sub-panels from the pedestal). All of the wiring is underground. At our lake place in Montana the feed is overhead with a panel on the pole and then the feeds to the cabin and well are underground.

grsthegreat, where are you located at? I am North of Rathdrum in the Twin Lakes area.

athol myself....were almost neighbors

 

[grsthegreat]

Thanks a lot for all the info. I already figured I'd get the best advice from the PWR company but was afraid there may have been large expenses with underground, it appears not from what has been said. As far as the trench, how deep and wide? I know it's dependent on location, we have now frost issue in Alabama. I have an old case trencher(16+4) and does about a 6" x 3-4ft deep trench. Can't increase the depth but the width can go to 12". Will this work or will I need to get a bigger unit to go deeper.

again it depends on your utility and local codes...the utility company here requires 36" coverage...but the national electric codes only require 24" coverage for direct burial and 18" coverage for conduit encased pipe as long as its not subjected to traffic.....if it crosses a driveway, i usually go 36". also, here what we generally do is share a trench. we dig a 50 -60" deep trench (for our frost issues) and put the water in. fill this with 2' of dirt and place power. then fill 12" of dirt and lay phone, cable and gas.....you can also place gas and elect side by side as long as there 12" separation...again, that's Idahos way of doing it...... your state may be different. we do alot of trenching with 6" buckets here

 

[Pirate]

I am planning on hooking up stuff to my RV pad. It would work out perfect to run a 3" septic line in the same trench as my electric service from the house, which would be in conduit. Ever heard of this being done to code? I know I "could" do it but.....

 

[grsthegreat]

I am planning on hooking up stuff to my RV pad. It would work out perfect to run a 3" septic line in the same trench as my electric service from the house, which would be in conduit. Ever heard of this being done to code? I know I "could" do it but.....

errrrrr. ive never heard of that being done. not even sure if it legal. that would be an inspectors call.

 

[Samandothers]

CH47D
You have found there are a lot of possibilities. Contact your utility before planning a great deal. They will help you to understand the possibilities and what your options are.

K7LN, Pete described better what I was trying to explain. Clearing a Right of way, cutting trees,which would probably require a signed easement/Right of way, would be required for underground or overhead. Less is usually required with underground and therefore the cost comparison between overhead and undergound is reduced.

 

[grsthegreat]

CH47D
You have found there are a lot of possibilities. Contact your utility before planning a great deal. They will help you to understand the possibilities and what your options are.

K7LN, Pete described better what I was trying to explain. Clearing a Right of way, cutting trees,which would probably require a signed easement/Right of way, would be required for underground or overhead. Less is usually required with underground and therefore the cost comparison between overhead and undergound is reduced.

and more importantly.....the place will look way cleaner and modern without overhead crap. always remember to run phone,internet and if possible gas to all outbuildings. has saved me lots of redigging time. i also ran empty conduits between buildings. ive used one of them to install 3way switches from house to barn so i can control barn lights from inside house 300 feet away. conduit is cheap compared to new trenches

 

[lectro88]

Just food for thought. Rather than a large single feeder such as 500mcm/kcmil. They may be able to run parallel 350 which equals a 700 kcmil. But all these ideas are just talk. As others have said, you need to contact you local utility company. My "guess" is they will run a 4160 volt or 12.5k primary set. And step down somewhere you probably will regret 1 day. So my advice is figure where a xfmr. will be out of the way and hope they listen to you.