New shop build, Doneish but continuing shenanigans

[truckdiagnostics]

It's critical to determine lift location before the PEX is laid. The bolt spacing on the legs makes it a necessity that there be a blank area. Can't simply drill between loops.

That was kinda a given. I actually made a gig or form that I set in place that gave me that spacing for the lift footer, then you know where to keep the pex away from. What I am talking about is when your all done, you have to drill those holes it sure is nice to know 100% you are not going to hit that pex. When they pour you have no way of knowing if they hit or moved something! I had the fire department come down and do it.

 

[truckdiagnostics]

Your Pex layout is a BTU calculation. Who supplies your Pex should do it for you, 80-90 degree water temp. For your application you should see a sea of orange pex. Close together and a lot. You need to be able to put a lot of BTU's in that floor without having to have to high a water temp. If you do not get enough Pex in the floor now you end up with having to have to high a water temp going to your floor. Over time concrete does not like those high water temps. In a shop application, with over head doors opening and closing you need to be able to put a lot of BTUs into that floor.

 

[ovrszd]

That was kinda a given. I actually made a gig or form that I set in place that gave me that spacing for the lift footer, then you know where to keep the pex away from. What I am talking about is when your all done, you have to drill those holes it sure is nice to know 100% you are not going to hit that pex. When they pour you have no way of knowing if they hit or moved something! I had the fire department come down and do it.

Yep. Sonotube. No worries. Unless you decide to move the lift.

 

[truckdiagnostics]

Yep. Sonotube. No worries. Unless you decide to move the lift.

It is not like the lift moves it is when they trip over the rebar and break off one of the clips that screws or stapled into the insulation holding down the pex and it moves over your sonotube. Or they hook one when they drag the vibrator over the top. You do a lot of twisting and bending to get that pex where you want it. You will only hit one once then a thermal imaging camera looks real cheap.

 

[ovrszd]

It is not like the lift moves it is when they trip over the rebar and break off one of the clips that screws or stapled into the insulation holding down the pex and it moves over your sonotube. Or they hook one when they drag the vibrator over the top. You do a lot of twisting and bending to get that pex where you want it. You will only hit one once then a thermal imaging camera looks real cheap.

I've only been involved in six pours over PEX. None with problems as you describe. One of those pours had the PEX fastened to the rebar. The rest had the PEX stapled to the insulation board.

The sonotube extends above the PEX. That's the whole idea of it. You can't get the PEX on top of the sonotube.

If the PEX gets yanked around and moved as you describe the thermal image isn't going to help much. There will be no suitable void to drill 8-10 holes.

 

[not2old]

I've only been involved in six pours over PEX. None with problems as you describe. One of those pours had the PEX fastened to the rebar. The rest had the PEX stapled to the insulation board.

The sonotube extends above the PEX. That's the whole idea of it. You can't get the PEX on top of the sonotube.

If the PEX gets yanked around and moved as you describe the thermal image isn't going to help much. There will be no suitable void to drill 8-10 holes.

If the sonotube sits higher than the pex, you will lose some of strength that ties the post footing to the floor.

 

[truckdiagnostics]

I've only been involved in six pours over PEX. None with problems as you describe. One of those pours had the PEX fastened to the rebar. The rest had the PEX stapled to the insulation board.

The sonotube extends above the PEX. That's the whole idea of it. You can't get the PEX on top of the sonotube.

If the PEX gets yanked around and moved as you describe the thermal image isn't going to help much. There will be no suitable void to drill 8-10 holes.

The lift bolts flush on the finished floor i would think the top of the sono tube would be flush with the top of the insulation. All he needs is the concrete under where the lift post go to be thicker? mine has 8 bolts and you could always fudge it one way or the other.

Unless that is not the style lift he is using. I didn't read that part i assumed.

 

[ovrszd]

If the sonotube sits higher than the pex, you will lose some of strength that ties the post footing to the floor.

With the PEX stapled to the pinkboard and the sonotube at the top of the PEX no strength is lost. Ultimately strength is gained because the tube extends below the pinkboard and can extend below the gravel if you like.

 

[ovrszd]

The lift bolts flush on the finished floor i would think the top of the sono tube would be flush with the top of the insulation. All he needs is the concrete under where the lift post go to be thicker? mine has 8 bolts and you could always fudge it one way or the other.

Unless that is not the style lift he is using. I didn't read that part i assumed.

Sorry, I should have read down before answering not2old. The top of the sonotube could be at the top of the pinkboard. Or actually, if you think you'll not make a mistake, there doesn't even need to be any sonotube. Just leave a round hole in the pinkboard and when laying PEX, don't cross it. When I've saw it used they stopped an inch above the pinkboard. It's simply insurance that the PEX doesn't intrude into the "drill" area.

 

[truckdiagnostics]

How I did it and it worked well. I put all the foam rebar pex everything down. I had pretty good idea where the lift was going. So i moved the pex to the side. Slammed some 2 x 10 together into a 3 x 3 box. Came back cut the foam rebar in that spot set the box in and dug around inside of the box pushing it down. Then the square i cut out of the foam went into the bottom. Added some rebar and away we went. Then I had ruffly 12-13 inches of concrete in that area.
Then because i want to move the lift to one side and i wanted to crowd one side of my 3 x 3 box..... That is when i came back with the IR camera. That is when I noticed some of the pipes moved.

Then when i was talking to the kid who has installed a lot of pex, says he has one on his truck and uses them all the time doesn't trust any of it and say they move all the time. So i had one i could play around with, The pex moves maybe not a lot but it moves or moved and or my measurements were off and I am real glad I checked with the camera.

Now if I would have put the lift where I originally wanted I would have been fine i had a 3 x 3 spot. However when i moved it and got closer I might have been in trouble.

Vibrating your concrete adds strength too question to ask who is pouring your if he is using vibrator screed.

 

[truckdiagnostics]

my :2cents:
i have not looked at where he lives. But in a working shop in the snow belt I would not have in floor heat as my sole heat source. You need a way to get the moister out of the building. You need some form of make up air also needed for welding painting...If i had to do over i would design the boiler to handle an air handler. You will need a heat source for your other rooms? Then run the air handler on a humidistat and have it turn on when you run your exhaust fan. Then run zone vales for the other air handers through out the building. Put an ac coil in your air handler and you have an air conditioned shop

 

[ovrszd]

my :2cents:
i have not looked at where he lives. But in a working shop in the snow belt I would not have in floor heat as my sole heat source. You need a way to get the moister out of the building. You need some form of make up air also needed for welding painting...If i had to do over i would design the boiler to handle an air handler. You will need a heat source for your other rooms? Then run the air handler on a humidistat and have it turn on when you run your exhaust fan. Then run zone vales for the other air handers through out the building. Put an ac coil in your air handler and you have an air conditioned shop

My only shop heat source is the floor heat. Heat method is propane fired tankless heater. I have no moisture problem in my shop.. I find floor heat to be a dry heat. An example is if I pull my vehicle into the shop wet, within a couple hours the vehicle and the floor are dry.

I don't have an exhaust fan. I'm on the fence about that. Totally depends on frequency of need. My negative concern regarding an exhaust fan is heat loss. Needs to be mounted high on the wall or thru the ceiling. Friend of mine built a "blind" that he mechanically closes over the fan opening when it's not in use. Minimizes the heat loss.

I'm very picky about heat loss. I bought very good quality windows, walk in doors and overhead doors. My shop building is very tight and well insulated.

 

[rangerfredbob]

You guys up north have to do WAY more figuring into things, around here it doesn't snow until February normally and if we get a handful of days below 30F that's a fairly cold winter... If I get a big space to get out of the rain I'm winning, if I can warm that space up to 50 for a couple days without doing too much extra work that's a bonus... I am in no way going for peak efficiency... I do appreciate the back and forth chatter, it gives me things to think about. Honestly with a decently circulated wood stove and some supplemented floor heat for a larger thermal mass I should be pretty well set up.

On another note, there was a local Home Depot return online auction a bit ago and I picked up a roll of 12/2 with the aluminum shield for a little under retail ($20 I think, anything helps) which would probably be good for some of the runs to outlets. Also picked up a 24" attic vent fan with louvers to put in the trailing edge peak to get welding fumes and possibly paint fumes or summer heat out for less than retail.

Gonna spend some time staring at things some time this weekend, might take the marking paint and make some lines to see where things go, maybe pull the F350 in the shop to have a look see on the lift situation... Gotta get this figured out soon...

 

[grsthegreat]

You guys up north have to do WAY more figuring into things, around here it doesn't snow until February normally and if we get a handful of days below 30F that's a fairly cold winter... If I get a big space to get out of the rain I'm winning, if I can warm that space up to 50 for a couple days without doing too much extra work that's a bonus... I am in no way going for peak efficiency... I do appreciate the back and forth chatter, it gives me things to think about. Honestly with a decently circulated wood stove and some supplemented floor heat for a larger thermal mass I should be pretty well set up.

On another note, there was a local Home Depot return online auction a bit ago and I picked up a roll of 12/2 with the aluminum shield for a little under retail ($20 I think, anything helps) which would probably be good for some of the runs to outlets. Also picked up a 24" attic vent fan with louvers to put in the trailing edge peak to get welding fumes and possibly paint fumes or summer heat out for less than retail.

Gonna spend some time staring at things some time this weekend, might take the marking paint and make some lines to see where things go, maybe pull the F350 in the shop to have a look see on the lift situation... Gotta get this figured out soon...

just be careful using mc or bx cable (Thats the aluminum wrapped #12 wire). Make sure the metal is cut clean and does not pinch the internal wires. They make special connectors that have an internal plastic shield to help prevent arcing. I have had to do a fair share of troubleshooting over the years to find shorts with this wire.

 

[truckdiagnostics]

If you are going to put on second floor or over head storage footings to support the upper floor?

 

[rangerfredbob]

I've wondered about that, and will likely do some digging to get some extra concrete in that area. I'm going to "try" to figure out how to use the loopCAD software to get the heating circuit to go in an easy area to leave an empty window of concrete so I can put lags in to attach the wall base to... With a 6" reinforced slab I'll probably be fine making a office/bathroom the size in the box I attached before. I'll do some figuring this weekend, I need to get it cleaned out as it's amassed some "stuff" already and get other sheds cleared out so I can function...

 

[truckdiagnostics]

Went back and looked. Consider putting your manifold under your office space towards the center of the building. Then put mechanicals under there? you will need some form of a chase for the plumbing from the bathroom any way make it a closest space room for air compressor? Then it is a short run to your boiler for heat upstairs. I didn't see where power is coming in that is another thing to consider. My welders bathroom power is all in one corner. Saves on running wire.

 

[truckdiagnostics]

The post in the corner I would for sure add a footing and the others along the outside walls?

 

[rangerfredbob]

I saw a gap in my lighting and ended up going to Harbor Freight getting another 2 lights... Now I'm up to 16 of the 5000 lumen lights and one of the 5500, it's not dark... I'll likely go to town tomorrow and might grab a couple more for the area over what will be the loft, I'll rewire it later to be on their own switch...

Today I worked on cleaning up the shed closest to the shop. Rats and mice have made a mess over the last couple years, I had a bale of hay that came with the property in there and a couple years ago a rat made a nest... I put on my respirator once I got to that but got that all cleaned out, I went from not being able to walk in to being able to put one of the boxes from my new tool box full of insulation in there... Now the shop is nearly empty so I can get on the floor. Yesterday I picked up a chalk line kit from Home Depot so I'll start marking things out.

I'm not sure I'll go too crazy making footings for the walls of the office, I'll probably do something on both ends to increase the footprint but that's it, it's not going to be a second story, just storage of maybe a couple thousand pounds of stuff over the 10'x36' area aside from the weight of the materials to make the area... Not to make excuses but a friend has a 4" slab with a 8'x10' office with the rest loft on the last 10' of his 30'x40' with nothing special on the slab and no issues so far...

In my cleaning today I found 2 more speed squares! So now I have two Empire brand (one plastic, one aluminum) and two Harbor Freight units that I know where are... I also realized how much junk I have... I found 3 SPARE starters for my '90 Ranger, whether they work or not I do NOT remember... . To make it clear, I washed my hands a bunch of times today, there's no need in getting some stupid disease from the vermin...

 

[rangerfredbob]

I'm itching for this thing to be done... On Monday I called the concrete guy, he's working on getting me penciled in, he's been in the business a long time and sounded very confident and understanding of what I'm going for...

That said, the other day when I was cleaning and moving things I really want to get a floor in so I can get fancier tools situated! I moved a new unopened 6" belt sander, unopened blast cabinet and needs love Craftsman jointer among other things... Not to mention the new tool box I have now in my way in the garage waiting for the shop, the welders that need a better home, spare parts that need to be out of the way, etc...

I'm SO close to my stress level reducing a few steps... I'd MUCH rather work on the stuff I have planned on IN the shop than working ON the shop