Traction New L47 owner questions: widening tires, thumb, brush hog

[HighlandFarm]

Hello everyone!

I've been reading the forums for about a year, learning from you all and trying to decide on the right machine for our 200 acre farm: very hilly, 50-50% pasture and forest. Need the tractor for repairing & maintaing roads, timber work, digging foundations, and hauling all the heavy stuff we use for livestock.

Finally found a great deal on a used L47 with only 190 hours, and brought it home a couple weeks ago. Been learning the ropes but being very cautions as I get used to the machine and especially the steep terrain.

Now a few questions for your collective minds:

1) Tire spacing: First thing I need to do is widen the tread. It says on page 1 of the owner's manual ("safe operation") to adjust the wheels to the widest practical tread width. Today I took the tractor to our local equipment tire guy who filled the rear tires but says he can't space them out because they are welded rims. Anybody have experience with this? Do I need a spacer kit?

2) Mechanical thumb for backhoe: I would love the hydraulic thumb but simply can't afford the cost at this point to add the third function and thumb from Kubota. Are there mechanical thumbs available that would work with the existing mount, or would it require welding? Specific brands and model recommendations?

3) Brush hog: Our pastures desperately need cutting (only 24 cattle out there right now) and I've postponed until I got this tractor. What are your recommendations for ideal size of brush hog for the L47 with 6' width and 33 hp at the PTO? I saw that Everything Attachments has a 6-8 week wait time, so I'll need to look elsewhere. Any recommendations?

I'm sure I'll have many more questions and am looking forward to joining the conversation here on TBN.

Thanks in advance!

Christoph

 

[JWR]

I have experience in 2 out of the three questions:

-- FOR SURE get those rear wheels out wider if you have any slopes or steep ground to work on. These things are not real cheap ($495 a set in my case) but work really well.
This picture below is a set of steel tubing-style separators mounted on an L-3400. I put a set of 6" separators on the rear of my B2150 too and it made a HUGE difference in terms of feeling steady on slopes instead of feeling like it was in danger of tipping over. I used a set of Bora brand that are machined from solid aluminum but there are several kinds. I would go for the 6" per side giving you a foot more separation between rear wheels. It still amazes me that the Japanese have yet to comprehend that we are not all working flat land here in the USA. Check first to be sure you have clearance around the backhoe for widening the rear wheels.


These are the Bora brand that I use on my B2150:



Off the tractor they look like this:




-- Now about the Bush Hog -- I have experience with the 5ft hog on my B2150 Kubota and with a 6ft JD MX6 on a JD4700 I had for 10 years. For your L47 (I assume that is about like a L4701 I see on Tractor data with 39hp at the PTO and 40 some at the engine with around 3300 lb overall weight) I recommend the 6ft hog. You will have no trouble handling it either weight or driveline-wise. I do suggest a slip-clutch that is just cheap insurance and a good idea I think. As you probably know there are many good serviceable brands of rotary cutters. I have owned 2 Deere brand and 2 Bush hog brand, all of which are good reliable hardware. So is Landpride which builds very heavy cutters they still call medium duty. Depends a lot on what you have for dealers close by who are competent, stock parts and willing to talk friendly in the service Dept. Bush Hog as a company cannot be beaten in terms of backing their products in my opinion. [That is NOT always the case with their dealers however.] All of them carry light, medium and heavy duty cutters. There are so many good rotary cutters it is hard not to find a good one. Go for the medium duty and make sure they have a cotter key keeping the blade holder nut on the machine.


I have no experience with backhoes or thumbs on them.

 

[HighlandFarm]

Thanks JWR for this valuable info. I'll look into those wheel spacers for sure. My local tire guy says I'd gain more stability by widening the front tires. What are your thoughts on pros/cons of widening front or back?

Sounds like 6ft is the way to go for brush hogs with this size machine.

Anybody have experience with mechanical thumbs for their backhoes?

Cheers!

 

[JWR]

The tire man is wrong. Your front axle is on a pivot in the center (so it does not contribute to resisting tip-over) and thus widening the front does NOT help. Widening the back is the only way to improve things. There are several threads that include discussion about this topic but I can't remember the titles.

 

[woody]

I have the L45 and when I purchased it there was a 6ft brush hog that came with it just this past week I had a chance to use it and the L45 handled it with no problem, now my B26 has a hydraulic thumb and I miss having the thumb on the L45 but until I have the funds I'll have to do without it but eventually I am going to put a hydraulic thumb on the L45.

 

[Fallon]

The tire man is wrong. Your front axle is on a pivot in the center (so it does not contribute to resisting tip-over) and thus widening the front does NOT help. Widening the back is the only way to improve things. There are several threads that include discussion about this topic but I can't remember the titles.

I'll 2nd that. It would help in maybe 1% of the circumstances. If you were starting to roll & somehow ran out of inertia as the pivot on the front axle bottomed out it could in theory help. But as a practical matter you are already completely screwed & going over in that situation. The solid back axle is where a tractor gets their stability. Go wide back there for more stability.

My 32hp HST L3200 ran a 5' rotary & 7' flail fine. HST eats 15% of your HP. But it means you just let off the go pedal if your engine starts bogging. Easy to mitigate HP shortfalls running a to big mower by just going slower. You aren't likely to run out of Lift capacity or front ballast (non quick attach loader) on a real TBL.

 

[FatTire]

Great to find a "pre-owned" L47 with under 200 hours, it is probably like a new machine but just about broken if for you.

I bought some Bora 2" spacers for the rear wheels on my L5740 in order to get more clearance for tire chains. I was surprised that even with just 4 inches (total) of additional tire spacing the machine feels noticeably better on a side hill or when a tire drops into a hole or ditch. Going wider is definitely a good thing if you need to work in steep terrain. And Bora is good to work with if you have any special issues or problems.

I don't know who makes a mech. thumb for the L47. Maybe call a few places like Brotek, Extreme Metal Products (EMP) and Michigan Iron (MIE) and ask them if they'd make one for you, if you haven't already.

Mowers - not my thing, can't help.

 

[JWR]

Great to find a "pre-owned" L47 with under 200 hours, it is probably like a new machine but just about broken if for you.

I bought some Bora 2" spacers for the rear wheels on my L5740 in order to get more clearance for tire chains. I was surprised that even with just 4 inches (total) of additional tire spacing the machine feels noticeably better on a side hill or when a tire drops into a hole or ditch. Going wider is definitely a good thing if you need to work in steep terrain. And Bora is good to work with if you have any special issues or problems. ...

I agree. Bora has been the ideal source for spacers in my view. They are also known under the name Motorsport Technology out of Reno, NV and they take email at motorsportjr@gmail.com . They had every tiny detail figured out for compatibility with my specific Kubota including provision for the 2 of the wheel studs facing the opposite direction from the rest, little recesses to insure that the spacers stay concentric with the hub, providing all the right threaded bolts and etc. I was really very satisfied with them. Again I got the 6" spacers and I advocate going out as wide as you can provided there is no conflict with your backhoe or other things. Spacers of significant length do usually preclude using the belly mowers.

 

[HighlandFarm]

Thanks everyone for the good advice.

I contacted BORA and it seems they can make me a set of 6" spacers for the L47.

Several of you suggested I check compatibility with the backhoe. Looking at it, it appears that +6" on the wheel spacing would not interfere. The stabilizer legs run at an slight angle back, so they wouldn't contact tires no matter how wide. The backhoe itself swings to 90 degrees perpendicular, so it can't reach as far forward as the tires. Photos attached. Is there something I may be overlooking?

The folks at BORA suggest that front spacing will add stabilty when there's a load up front and if hitting a hole. However I'm looking at $500 front and $500 rear. Can't put a price on safety, but at the same time we are trying to start a farm and every penny matters. Thoughts?

Thanks so much.

 

[Fallon]

The wider the footprint, the more leverage they have to prevent rolling. As the front suspension is just a pin, the front suspension does absolutely nothing to prevent rolling until the axle hits the stops. If you hit the stops, you are already screwed & almost assuredly going over.

Wider front may make things a bit smoother for the same reason a road trader is so long. The longer the lever the less the far end moves, depending on where the fulcrum is at. But that will be vertical motion for the front of the machine. Not the rotational stability that's important.

 

[DanHen]

Can’t help with the wheel spacing as I’m on flat land but will throw in my 2 cents on the thumb and bush hog. I have an L-47 too, my first tractor, and have the Kubota thumb. Although the thumb is useful, it has its downside too. The main one being the big expense. I’ve seen guys using a fixed thumb for the same duties. Since you have to curl the bucket to use the thumb either way, IMO the fixed might be the better value. Additionally my thumb bleeds off very fast (dealer says it’s normal...) which is more of an annoyance than a problem.
As for the bush hog, I bought EA’s 72” Extreme and it does a great job. Cut down 7 acres of crazy 5’ tall brush and scrub in about 12 hours with no issues. Got mine in less time than expected and they even painted it orange for me

The L-47 is a great machine , wish I had more land to get out and play on more often!

 

[JWR]

Don't spend a dime on front spacers. Fallon explained it. They will do you no good whatsoever. Especially not $500 worth of good. The rear ones are well worth it.

 

[crmorse]

I'll second DanHen on the hydraulic thumb. It's absolutely great for quick grabbing a root or something but do any heavy lifting you actually have to curl the bucket against it. Mine leaks like crazy too and I think I've discovered the cause. The bucket curl cylinder is more than strong enough to "override" the thumb cylinder. In other words, force it to close without operating the valve. My theory is that is damaging the internal seals. So when I use mine I'm very careful to not curl too hard.

In that respect, a mechanical thumb would be more useful because you could use full curl force for gripping instead of just whatever strength is left in the hyd thumb cylinder. The downside of course is mechanical is slow to open/close.

 

[Jchonline]

I'll second DanHen on the hydraulic thumb. It's absolutely great for quick grabbing a root or something but do any heavy lifting you actually have to curl the bucket against it. Mine leaks like crazy too and I think I've discovered the cause. The bucket curl cylinder is more than strong enough to "override" the thumb cylinder. In other words, force it to close without operating the valve. My theory is that is damaging the internal seals. So when I use mine I'm very careful to not curl too hard.

In that respect, a mechanical thumb would be more useful because you could use full curl force for gripping instead of just whatever strength is left in the hyd thumb cylinder. The downside of course is mechanical is slow to open/close.

I looked in the L47/M62 User Manual and it doesnt mention backhoe operation at all. That seems strange. Anyway I wondered if there are any recommendations for picking things up with the hyd thumb...for example should your curl the thumb to the bucket or vise versa?

 

[HighlandFarm]

Thanks everyone for the advice. I just ordered 6" spacers from BORA for the rear, nothing for the front.

@Jchonline, I have the same problem. Nothing at all about the backhoe in the owners' manual. We need to find the separate owner's manual for the BT1000 backhoe. Anybody know where to find it? Doesn't seem to be easily available online.

I found these two excerpts about installing/removing the BT1000 backhoe in another thread on TBN, but nothing else. Any ideas?

View attachment BT1000 Install.pdfView attachment BT1000 Remove.pdf


Thanks!

 

[rScotty]

Thanks everyone for the advice. I just ordered 6" spacers from BORA for the rear, nothing for the front.

@Jchonline, I have the same problem. Nothing at all about the backhoe in the owners' manual. We need to find the separate owner's manual for the BT1000 backhoe. Anybody know where to find it? Doesn't seem to be easily available online.

I found these two excerpts about installing/removing the BT1000 backhoe in another thread on TBN, but nothing else. Any ideas?
View attachment 560024View attachment 560025
Thanks!

The M59 Manuals and my own 10 years of experience might help with some of the thumb questions. Unfortunately there isn't anything in the BH Manual about using the thumb.

You're on the right track with the manuals; when I bought the M59 it came with an operator's manual for the M59 tractor&loader and a separate Operator's Manual for the BT1200 Backhoe. The Parts Manuals are separate too.

In the Backhoe Manual there is a good section with detailed illustrations for mounting and dismounting the hoe, but only this one single sentence that applies to using the thumb at all....and it is really on the aux. hydraulics, not the thumb per se. On page 13 there is a warning NOT to hold the aux. cylinder valve open once the aux cylinder (that's the thumb cylinder) has reached the end of its stroke because forcing oil through the relief valve for "extended periods" will overheat the oil.

I'm not sure what "extended periods" means, but it must mean a longer time than I do that because what is says not to do is exactly what I do. I keep pressure on the thumb constantly by using my foot to hold the thumb valve open in just the way that they say not to when I'm building stone walls. I think nothing of holding pressure on the thumb for about 10 to 15 seconds while I rotate the bucket out to place a stone accurately. Doing that keeps the rock clamped while the bucket rotates out. During this time I assume that the thumb circuit relief valve is in full operation. So far, no problems. I usually run about 1500 RPM when doing rock walls with the BH & thumb.

Yes, the bucket rotation is more powerful than the thumb, and that makes it possible to curl the bucket against the thumb until the bucket is completely rotated and has overpowered the thumb to force it from full open all the way back to the fully closed position. I rarely curl the bucket against the thumb for that distance, but I'm sure I have done it. Normally there's just no need to do so. When picking something up I normally curl the bucket and extend the thumb simultaneously and the typical result is that as I grasp the object the thumb is forced back about six inches or so by the bucket. That gives me a good strong grab. The clamping motion is strong enough at idle to shear some 4 to 6" pine saplings.

BTW, the thumb will pinch down hard enough to hold a rock out just about indefinitely. See the attached photo. So if yours doesn't, you can probably make it do so. I guess it would slacken its grip eventually, but if I'm holding a rock out with the thumb I expect it to hold that rock firmly clamped while I get off and measure, or take pictures, or consider a rock....or do something else for fifteen minutes or so. I'd never, ever say to trust any hydraulic system completely - my assumption is always that it is going to fail right now in the worst way possible - but so far it has held longer than we needed it to and no signs of letting go.
rScotty

 

[HighlandFarm]

Thanks everyone for the advice on spacing out the wheels. I finally received the 6" spacers from BORA and got them on my L47. Couldn't be happier - they definitely add confidence on the side slopes. Photo attached.



As for the BT1000 backhoe manual, does anyone know where it's available online? Or could you send as an attachment? I found the manual for the L47 itself but not the backhoe.

Thanks!