New Home Construction

[bmac]

rox,

Good to hear from you again. The cement board issue has been resolved (I think). My builder finally returned today. I told him I wanted cement board in the showers. He said OK.

Actually, our conversation was a little longer than that but the end result is that there will be cement board under the tile in the showers. I will probably see him tomorrow and specify exactly where I want it.

<font color="blue"> What are you doing for flooring BTW? </font>

Good timing on this question. The wood flooring was supposed to have been delivered a couple of days ago. I have not been out to the house this week, so I'm assuming they delivered it when they said they would. The installer is supposed to get started tomorrow, I think.

We are putting heart pine on the entire main floor, except in the kitchen, mudroom, powder room, laundry and master bath, which will be tiled. The stairs going upstairs will be heart pine, as will the upstairs hallway and reading area outside the guest room. The bedrooms upstairs will be carpeted and the baths tiled. The basement will eventually be carpeted.

<font color="blue"> Seems to me like recliners would enhance your enjoyment of the flat screen tv. </font>

Our plan is to use a couple of recliners and a large sofa in the family room. As I've mentioned before, it is not a large room and that is about all of the furniture it will accomodate.

One thing that I did not mention about the flat tv in the family room that may address Eddie's concern about the tv competing with the fireplace as a focal point is the fact that, when not in use, the tv will be hidden behind folding doors. I got this idea from a This Old House episode. I recorded the scene that showed the tv treatment and gave it to our cabinet man. He said that he will have no problem reproducing this solution. We'll see.


The only other action planned this week is a meeting I have with a landscape designer, something Eddie encouraged me to get moving on. How I found this particular landscaper is somewhat interesting. I don't know how many of you folks get or watch HGTV. Its one of my favorite networks. One show I really like is Ground Breakers, a program that shows very nice landscape installations. Well, I was watching an episode recently and really liked the work they were doing. After the show, I went to the HGTV web site and looked up this particular episode for information. The landscaper who did the project is right here in my county, so I e-mailed him, gave him my phone number and we set up a meeting for tomorrow. It will be interesting to see what he comes up with. Maybe I should ask him if he can get our project on the Ground Breakers show.

As always, rox, I appreciate your feedback and questions. Hope the olive harvest went well.

 

[Alan L.]

I don't think you will regret the decision on the green board. I have been up for 3 days worrying about this, now I can go to bed.... /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[bmac]

Alan,

Thanks for your concern. Sleep well, my friend. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[EddieWalker]

bmac,

I sure am enjoying this thread and the progress your making. The floors are going to look amazing!!!

Have you picked out and ordered your tile yet?

I've done quite a bit of tile work. Prices for the exact same tile vary allot from dealer to dealer. Here in Tyler, all the tile comes from the wholesaler in Dallas. All the flooring and big box stores sell the same brands,which come from this wholesaler. Or should I say a very large percentage come from them.

I went from store to store pricing the exact same tile until I found the best price. There was a $4 savings from the highest to the cheapest. Same exact tile. Home Depot was in the middle of the range.

Don't rely on your tile guy to get you the best price. Most builders don't care what the material costs, they just pass it on to the client. Same with lumber and all the other materials. Builders and tradesmen usually use the supplier that is convienent for them or who they like to deal with personally.

If you save a buck a sq ft, it adds up pretty quick.

I've never installed real wood floors, just laminates and refinished them, so I don't know anything about that part of it, but I'm anxious to see the results.

Rox,

Reclining to watch TV when it's up on the wall is just a personal issue with me. Most people will think I'm just being **** about it, but if you can only be comfortable watching the TV in one position, then there's a problem. I'm not a recliner type of guy, but either a straight up, or laying on my side, type of TV guy. I like the TV straight in front of me, and until I went over to my friends homes and watched TV on their plasma screes above the fireplace, I thought it was a great idea. Having experienced it, I realize it's not for me.

Eddie

 

[rox]

bmac,

Thanks for asking about the olive harvest. Olives bear every other year so it is feast or famin. Last year we had a great havest so this year it is famin. Goll darn it only 20 trees to go and they we would be done and it started raining at 10am this morning. After working virtually every day for a month+ it just couldn't hold off raining a few more hours until at last we would be finished. Thus I am relaxing and catchng up on different websites.

All the pine floors sound fabulous. Did something very similar on our previous home except it was all red oad floors. Only had carpet in the Master Bedroom and guest bedroom. Everything else was wood or tile.

You'll never be sorry, you will always enjoy a fine appreciation on the property with wood and tile floors. When we sold our home the appraiser assigned a significant +++ for the flooring.

Since you are doing all pine flooring, what width is it BTW? are you also planning solid pine doors throughout? What kind of trim are you planning on?

I'm sure now that we know that you are planning pine wood floors people will chime in with items to look for. Generally the wider the boards the more... hmmm what is the right word, luxurious they look. I had random lengths and pretty wide, it came out nice. About the only splurge we did on wood flooring was in the dining room. We had the installer make a border in the room of walnut I think. Starting from the interior wall we had a border of red oak, then a border of walnut, then the rest of the floor was red oak. Kind of like a picture frame if you will. Since the dining room is a formal room, we went a little extra with the wood flooring to dress it up.

I did not have my flooring match my cabinets and trim. The wood floors were not stained, and the cabinets and door and trim were stained. The light floors really looked good against the stained cabinets and trim, they were a light to medium brown, kind of a golden brown.

I can't wait until you go to pick out hardware, it is unbelievable how much that costs. Nowdays there is the internet so hopefully you can find what you want at a good price. One other tip on hardware. I went for double towel bars in the bathroom, which nobody used much. Everyone always jsut wanted to use the hooks. I learned, finally to do what my husband always said he did in his restaurant, give people what they want.

When I moved to my home in France I put up more hooks than you can imagine and my husband is thrilled. Everybody likes hooks so now I give them hooks. FWIW a few hooks in the bathroom might be something to consider, as well as hooks in the closets.

Both my kids have asthma, and wood floors significantly improved their health. Hopefully your kids don't have it, but if they suffer from allergies or asthma wood floors in their bedroom will be much much healthier for them. I couldn't believ the difference when we moved in how good it was, especially for my daughter.

I LOVE the idea of the hidden plasma TV above the fireplace. that is the tops!!! Way way cool. What is your surrond going to e for the fireplace? Brick? Tile? I had green marble and it really wasn't all that much money. The marble was in big squares like a tile. It didn't even need extra support in the basement like brick does. If you go with a white fireplace I hae always found them to be rather formal. It is jsut what you want and what you are comfortable with. A family room usually is a wam gathering spot and a white fireplace makes it less cozy and more formal.

My daughter jsut a bought a home and she ahs a white fireplace in the family room and it jsut reaffirmed my opion on that. Of course I would never say anything to her, but to me a white fireplace is best in a formal room like a seperate living room or dining room, even perhaps a master bedroom if you were crating a rather formal bedroom.

You are probably getting sick and tired of my decorating opinions and want more constructive constuction advice but at least I came through for you in time about the dryer vent in the wall adapter for you, so that was something.

Are you planning on putting shutters on the outside of the house next to the windows? I can't remember.

I had to laugh reading about your son's "gaming" room, kids they sure do get excited about a new house and therir space don't they?

Kudos to your wife for the batheroom appliance garage, no rush, no rush at all but if you think about it sometime when you are not so busy can you give a link? I'd like to have a look at that.

Have fun with the landscapper, in our area (well our old area of the US) the rule of thumb was 10% of the cost of the house was spent on landscapping. So if you built a $300,000 house a budget for landscapping was $30,000. But you are in such a pretty and private location I'm sure you won't need to spend near that amount.

Good luck and as always thanks for sharing.

 

[rox]

Almost forgot, one other idea, consider buying like a $100 small refridgerator for sodas. When you are getting your cabinets built either in the family room or the kitchen just leave an opening for a small refriderator. it doesn't even have to be a fancy wine refriderator or anything. Nowdays these small refriderators are very cheap and actually they are cheaper then building a custom cabinet. I had one in my kitchen and it was great.

An empty space for a small refridgerator (of course you have a countertop on top) is cheaper than building a cabinet. I hope I'm describing this well enough.

Again to each his own and what is right for our family may ot be right for your family, jsut thought I would throw out how I saved a little money on cabinets, well at least one cabinet anyway.

 

[steveinmo]

bmac,

I'll throw in my two cents on the TV issue. I don't know what type of flat screen you're considering. I just went thru this myself.....built a new house and wanted a big TV. I had a lot of people warn me against plasma's because of "burn in". The "experts" I talked to recommended DLP instead.

The only drawback to the DLP is that you lose clarity when viewed from above or below. They're best viewed at eye level. I ended up with a Samsung DLP and love it. It's positioned on bookshelves I had built in next to the fireplace.

Just something to think about.

Steve

 

[bmac]

<font color="blue"> Have you picked out and ordered your tile yet?
</font>

Some of it. In fact, I have 30 boxes sitting in my garage now. My wife found a discount tile place that has a big selection, but you cannot order from there. You buy what they have when they have it. She found the tile for the kitchen and mudroom there so she bought it - saved $1600 compared to the local tile place. Unbelievable. Once she decides the basic look she wants for the other rooms, she and her decorator are going back to this place to pick out the remaining tile. Fortunately, she is being flexible and is not against selecting a tile that may not exactly match her ideal look as long as it comes close. The decorator is going along to make sure she doesn't stray too far from the overall concept.

One thing we learned from this - tile is heavy! Those 30 boxes in the bed of my F-150 made the front end real light. Not safe driving. Now, once she picks out the tile, our tile guy will pick it in his 1 ton truck.

 

[bmac]

<font color="blue"> Since you are doing all pine flooring, what width is it BTW? are you also planning solid pine doors throughout? What kind of trim are you planning on?
</font>

The pine flooring is a little more rustic than oak. There are a few different grades available and the grading is dependant upon the number of knots in each board. Lower grade is very knotty and is more suitable for something like a mountain cabin. The highest grade has very few knots. We decided upon a middle grade that we thought would compliment the farmhouse look we are going for. We chose 6' width. The wider you go, the more likely it is that some of the boards will "cup" or warp on you. We went with the widest board the manufacurer said would not likely have a cupping problem. We learned about these pine floors by visiting a Southern Living "Dream House" in Atlanta. This house was designed to resemble a home that might have been built in Atlanta in the 1920's. In fact, we also liked the trim in this house and the trim carpenter is using these ideas in our house.

I don't know if I can describe the trim to you. I do lknow that it will be substantial in dimensions, but not ornate. The crown on the main floor will begin with a cove moulding. It will have other pieces added to it and the final crown will be about 11 inches high. The base will be a about 9 inches. With 11 foot ceilings, the trim needs some mass for porportionality. I think the doors will have 4" trim on the sides and 6" across the top.

Our interior door selection was also based upon what we saw in the Southern Living home. The 5-panel doors will be solid, but made of masonite. The rationale of selecting masonite over wood was (a) they will be painted, not stained and (b) the dimensional stability of masonite exceeds that of wood (or so I've been told). So, in the end, we'll have nice, heavy interior doors that look like wood (once painted) but are more warp resistant. The piant scheme we are leaning toward is a monochromatic look. Walls, ceiling, doors and trim all the same color. By varying the gloss level, each element stands on its own. We are seeing alot of this in the design magazines and like it very much. Of course, the decorator will guide us on this.

All hardware will be oil-rubbed bronze. It looks old. Door knobs will have a football shape. I think it will look great.

Fortunately, my kids don't have allergies or asthma. They get carpet in their rooms.

We have not finalized the design of the fireplace. It will not be formal looking. Leaning toward a brick hearth.

No exterior shutters. We went back and forth on this issue and ultimately decided against it. The window treatments inside will be the wood plantation shutters.

rox, I've got to end this now and go pick up my son from school. I'll check back in later to complete my reply. And, no, I am not tired of your questions and comments. I appreciate them. You have lots of good ideas.

 

[rox]

real fast reply on my end. Pros and cons of firplace face. If wood burning brick or stone can get smoke stained. Glossy Marble or even Tile can more easily be cleaned. Ever try to scrub bricks to get the smoke stains off? I have, it's not a fun job and it never looks the same after cleaning. Just something to reflect on when you are making your decisions.

The trim sounds great and so do the wood floors. I also don't see anything negative in your seletion fo the masonite doors. If they are painted and it is a good heavy door I think they will serve you well. Actually everything you wrote about sounds great, I myself prefer a monochome look, I think it is very classy, and your hardware sounds really beautiful.

3 Cheers for your wife for bargain hunting for tile. Gotta wrap this up, know youa are busy as well.

 

[bmac]

OK, rox, back to buisness here. The fireplace will be a gas burner only. No soot, or smoke to deal with. Excellent point, however, in cleaning brick. Doubt I would have thought about that.

<font color="blue"> Kudos to your wife for the batheroom appliance garage, no rush, no rush at all but if you think about it sometime when you are not so busy can you give a link? I'd like to have a look at that.
</font>

I don't really have a link for this. Its something we've seen in kitchen showrooms. When we met with our cabinet guy, my wife described what she wanted and he said "no problem". The cabinets are supposed to be done in about 4 weeks so I'll just take a picture of one once they are installed.

<font color="blue"> the rule of thumb was 10% of the cost of the house was spent on landscapping. </font>

Yeah, I've heard that figure too. The way things are going with our budget, our landscaping will probably be 2 lbs of rye grass seed and a holly bush on each corner. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I did meet with the landscaper today and gave him some general ideas of what I am wanting to do. Right now, I'm most interested in getting the hardscaping plan done so we can site the buried propane tank, auxillary parking, steps, walkways and patio. Of course, a planting plan will also be needed, but I can phase that in. I do want to get the irrigation system in now, so the planting plan will be needed for that as well.

<font color="blue"> consider buying like a $100 small refridgerator for sodas </font>

That's a great idea and one that we have planned for the basement when we finish it. On the main floor, we will have a fridge in the kitchen (duh!) and a fridge and upright freezer in the mudroom, just off the kitchen. In our current house, we have the 2nd fridge and freezer in the basement. Other than holidays, the 2nd fridge is used almost exclusively for drinks. It allows the kids to have easy access to beverages as well as serving as a place for the 2nd gallon of milk / orange juice without filling up the main unit in the kitchen. During the holidays, we actually put food in the 2nd fridge (as strange as that may sound /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif) as my wife cooks some dishes a day or two ahead of time. We're spoiled with the 2nd fridge now and couldn't do without it.

OK, rox, I think I've addressed everything now. Thanks for taking your time to share ideas and suggestions. I really appreciate it.

 

[bmac]

Steve,

Thanks for the tip on the tv. I've heard the same thing regarding plasma in addition to the fact that they are supposed to run hotter and be heavier than lcd or dlp.

I also frequent a home theater forum which has served as a valuable resource for me. I'm thinking I recall that the dlp / lcd screens either aren't available in the size I want or they become cost prohibitive at the size I want. Its terrible getting old and not being able to remember things like this. In any event, from this HT forum, I've found what sounds like a pretty good 50"plasma display for what is an acceptable price for me. Time will tell if the burn in issue becomes a problem.

I do thank you for the heads up on this, though.

 

[bmac]

Not much has happened over the past couple of weeks. Yesterday, however, they started putting in the pine flooring. Early this afternoon, they were almost through with the family room and master bedroom on the main floor. They are supposed to work tomorrow and Monday. The trim carpenters are scheduled to begin next Tuesday.

Only have 2 photos today. This is a shot of the floor installation in the family room.

 

[bmac]

I hope this picture shows a close-up of the wood. This is the medium-grade pine flooring. Some knots for character, but not too many. I like it.

The floor will be stained and sealed later.

 

[Nasty135]

bmac, I just was looking at your flooring and it looks alot like what we used when we built our house 8 years ago. We use pine flooring 6" plank with knots and finished it with one coat of stain and then put 3 coats of tongue oil which supposedly gets harder as time goes by,(not sure about that ).
You will definately like the results /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif I attached a picture of our pine flooring

 

[EddieWalker]

Bmac,

I've never done a floor like that so I'm curious about the timeing of it's installation. Your walls are not textured or painted yet. My guess is the ceiling is in the same condition.

Is the floor prefinished, or will you still have to do that? If so, what are you going to do to finish it? Do you do this before or after the other subs tecture the walls and paint?

You said the trim guys are coming next week. What are they going to trim? Are they doing this before the walls are textured? Are you trimming with natural wood that will have to be stained and sealed? Will it be done before installing it or while it's up?

Sorry for all the questions, I'm just confused. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Eddie

 

[bmac]

Nasty

Very similar (if not exactly the same) wood. Although we aew going for a darker stain, the installer described a an oil-based sealer (not polyurethane) like yours, but I'm not sure if its tung oil or not. Beautiful floors you have.

 

[bmac]

Eddie,

Good challenging questions that I hope I can answer. Well I know I can answer some of them. Others, maybe not. Here goes.

The walls and ceiling are going to remain smooth - no texture. The floors are raw heart pine. 6" T&G. They are installing them with an adhesive plus nails. Face nailed along the walls using cut nails - hand hammered. Then, standard pneumatic floor nailer just like any hardwood floor is installed.

The timing of the floor installation is a little peculiar to me, as well. I thought the drywall would have been painted first, before the trim or flooring was installed. My understanding is the flooring guy wanted to go before the trim was installed so he wouldn't have to back-cut under the door jams and trim. In fact, his installation fee is more if he has top work around door jams. Once the flooring is installed, it will be covered until it is time to finish and seal them. When this will be, I'm not sure. As I mentioned in the previous reply, at some point the floors will be stained and sealed with an oil-based product. The installer told me what he uses, but I don't recall what it is. According to him, the beauty of this over polyurethane is that you can more easily do spot touch-ups without redoing the whole floor. Obviously, I'm just parroting what he told me - I don't know much about wood floors

At the risk of boring you more than I usually do, let me give you a little history about our selection of this particular flooring material. We had originally planned to use standard oak floors. One day, my wife saw an article in Southern Living magazine describing their annual "Idea Homes". They did one in Florida, one in Lousiana and one in Atlanta. I'm not sure how many TBN'ers are familiar with Southern Living magazine, but it features homes, landscaping, food and places of interest in the southeastern United States. Their feature homes are generally pretty nice places. The Idea Houses they sponsor each year typically showcase interesting architecture, building materials, cutting-edge techniques, etc. and are usually fairly upscale homes.

I hope you haven't fallen asleep yet, because I am going to get to my point eventually. Last year, we went to the Idea House in Atlanta. Two things in that house really caught our eye - the floors and the trim / paint scheme. One nice thing about the Idea Homes is that Southern Living provides a long list of suppliers and manufacturers of the products they use in each home, along with such detail as the paint brand and color. Well, the supplier of the heart pine floors was a company located about an hour from my home. One day, my wife and I drove there and saw the different products they offered, asked alot of questions and left with the decision that this was the product and supplier we wanted for our home.

Now, before we left, we asked for a recommendation for an installer who was familiar with their product. They gave us a list of several, but recommended one over the others in our area. This recommendation was based upon feedback from other customers.

I gave this information to our builder who then contacted the flooring folks and the installer. My wife and I met the installer and our builder at the house one Saturday morning to discuss our project. We left feeling very confident that this guy seemed to know what he was doing. He has 20 years of experience installing pine floors and seemed to have good explanations for why he did things the way he does. I guess it could have been a whale of a good snow job, but my builder felt good about him as well.

So, we selected a pine floor manufacturer based upon their participation in an upscale Southern Living Idea House thinking that this might be some indication of reasonable quality. And then we hired an installer who was recommended by the manufacturer, thinking that a properly installed floor would be in the best interest of the manufacturer and that they would likely recommend someone that they believed would do a good job.

With this background, I'm a little more comfortable in my ignorance, thinking that I have delegated this job and these decisions to folks that should know what they are doing even if I don't have a clue. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

The trim guys will be installing crown, base, window and door trim. Of course, the interior doors will be hung before they trim those. All trim will be paint-grade wood. Some components of the crown are actually MDF. So, no staining of the trim.

Eddie, I apologize for the wordy reply. I hope I have answered most of your questions. I'm in the dark myself about the sequence of painting vs floor finishing. One thing you can count on, though, is that as soon as I know something, I will share it with you right here.

Thanks for keeping up with this, buddy. And keep asking question / making suggestions. I appreciate it.

 

[EddieWalker]

bmac,

Thanks for taking the time to share all that information. My experiences have been in a different sequence, so I was curious about the process.

It makes sense to have the floor down before the base board is installed, but it also puts the floor in danger of damage. Again, I've never dealt with real wood floors, so it's all new to me.

Finding subs can be an interesting journey, and a frustrating one too. relying on the idea house is a pretty good way to find ideas and see the quality of work the sub is capable of doing.

I like to rely on recomendations from a few people that I trust.

Another good source is other subs in the area. My mirror and cabinet guys know who the good framers are and who can't put up a straigt wall by the amount of extra work they have to do to install their materials.

Painters are great for telling you who can make cabinets, do trim work and finish sheetrock.

Counter tops are good for who can build counters and frame walls. They really get made when a wall has a bow in it and they have to cut into the sheetrock to fit their counters.

The amazing thing to me is quality of work has nothing to do with the price or the home. I've seen half million dollar homes with wavey walls and sheetrock tape visible in the cielings.

Once you establish a good relationship with a few of the subs, you will find out all sorts of things about who to use and who to avoid. Unfortunately, most of the subs in the trades are pretty unreliable with a variety of vices that interfear with their work.

For me, I've found gambleing to be the biggest red flag to watch out for. Gamblers will always disapear from a job before it's completed!!!

The house is going to be amazing,
Eddie

 

[bmac]

<font color="blue"> It makes sense to have the floor down before the base board is installed, but it also puts the floor in danger of damage. </font>

Good point. I was thinking the same thing about painting with the floors in place. My builder assures me that the cover they place over the wood will protect it during the remainder of the construction. I guess the beauty of these pine floors is that they are less "finished" than the typical hardwood for a more rustic look. Therefore, an errant hammer blow while installing trim (of course, I doubt they use hammers anymore) would not be as big a deal with pine. In fact, when we first went to the pine floor showroom, they talked about intentionally distressing the wood to make it look antique. They beat it with chains, hammers, etc. to get the look. Although we were not interested in this, it is often done in restoration projects where they are trying to match 100 - 150 year old floors.

<font color="blue"> Finding subs can be an interesting journey </font>

Fortunately, I am not the general contractor so I don't have this burden. My builder has been around this area for a long time and has subs that he routinely works with and has confidence in. I have trusted him to hire quality subs. This floor issue was different in that he has not done many homes with pine floors. Once I told him what we wanted, who we wanted to get them from and who we wanted to install them, he did his own research to make sure he was satisfied. Because of this, he became excited to have another product and resource to offer new clients. But as far as the other trades, so far, I've left it up to him.

<font color="blue"> Unfortunately, most of the subs in the trades are pretty unreliable with a variety of vices that interfear with their work </font>

That has been my impression for years. I can say that, for the most part, his subs have shown up when expected and worked until their job was complete. The exception to this was the roofers. They took forever to finish the shingles. And this was one trade where I had personal experience working with and in my previous dealings with roofers, they came early in the AM, worked until dark and, if the job was not finished, they were there at sun up the next day to complete the work. On this house, they would show up late morning or early afternoon, work for a little while and disappear for a few days. I don't see anything wrong with the quality of the work, just the timeliness.

<font color="blue"> For me, I've found gambleing to be the biggest red flag to watch out for. Gamblers will always disapear from a job before it's completed!!!
</font>

My builder had one sub he had to fire (fortunately before he started on my house) due to drug use. It did impact me as he then had to interview a number of other subs before hiring a replacement. This was for the HardiPlank siding. I think it worked out well as I was one of the first jobs this sub did for my builder and I'm sure he was wanting to impress him with good work in order to get more business in the future.

In any event, we'll follow this flooring saga and see how it works out. BTW, your lake is shaping up nicely. How long do you expect the total excavation to take and then how long will it take to fill?