New Home Construction
- Thread starter bmac
- Start date
- Views: 44576
Here's the shower behind the tub. This was an afterthought once we realized that the window adjacent to the tub and the size of the opening pretty much prevented putting a shower valve with the tub. This would have been unused space. Kind of small, but it will work fine.
Attachments
Taken from the shower, this is the guest water closet. For those who have been following this from the beginning, you may remember the snafu by the architect that resulted in us having to raise the exterior walls of the second floor. Well, this is the reason. Without doing that, there would have been insufficient headroom in the water closet. Would have had to kind of tilt your head to the right in order to do your business in here.
Attachments
Alan L.
Elite Member
Danger!
I would immediately have them replace that facing in front of the tub with concrete board, assuming this is going to be tile. I have been there and done that, and the green sheetrock in that position will most likely get wet enough to ruin. I have had to pull the entire wall off and replace with concrete board on a similar configuration we had in our house. A REAL PAIN!! The concrete board is so cheap I don't know why they would use the green wallboard.
Just my 2 cents......
I would immediately have them replace that facing in front of the tub with concrete board, assuming this is going to be tile. I have been there and done that, and the green sheetrock in that position will most likely get wet enough to ruin. I have had to pull the entire wall off and replace with concrete board on a similar configuration we had in our house. A REAL PAIN!! The concrete board is so cheap I don't know why they would use the green wallboard.
Just my 2 cents......
And here's whats left after the burn. As you can see, with the exception of the one charred stump that has been removed from the pit (to the left of the pit), we had a near complete burn of everything else. The trick, according to the excavator who did the burn, was to dig a hole first and do the burn in the hole. He said that had we done a surface burn, it would have (a) taken alot longer and (b) not burned as completely. Also, it didn't hurt that the brush pile had about 7 months to dry out.
Attachments
Alan L.
Elite Member
Same comment on the shower. The green sheetrock is absolutely worthless as a backing for tile unless safely away from any source of moisture. While is it supposed to be water resistant, it is hardly any different from regular wallboard.
If this is not going to be tile, then it is not as important, but with my experience I wouldn't use it.
If this is not going to be tile, then it is not as important, but with my experience I wouldn't use it.
EddieWalker
Epic Contributor
Great posts. Sure has been allot of work done on the place. Your at that exiting phase when things start making sence and you can actually see how it all fits together. FUN
Alan is dead on about the sheetrock, especially in the shower. No way I'd use it there. The tub is marginal, it depends on usage. The average whirlpool tub is used 4 times.
One thing that I'm personally against, but I'm probably the only person on the planet that feels this way, is putting the plasma tv over the fireplace. It looks real nice there. Balances the room, makes decorating easier and does't take up any space. Your eye is already drawn to the fireplace and all those supporting reasons for doing it are valid.
For me, I just don't like lookin up at the screen. Two friends have them like that and it just bothers me. Again, it's just my personaly preference, but there's no way I'd do that in my persnal home unless I had another big screen someplace that I could be comfortable watching.
The kitchen is going to be amazing. The high ceilings and recessed lights already make it look very grand.
I work on a smaller scale, so I'm sure this won't apply to you, but custom cabinet made cabinets rarele come out as good as what I can buy at Home Depot. High end jobs are different, but you pay for that level of finish. Big time!!!
Mid level homes have all gone to the overhead microwave vent over the stove. I think this is a mistake and I'm hearing complaints about it from some people. I won't do on a home I live in, but realize it's a selling point on a spec home. High end homes never seem to do this, so I'm sure it's not something you need to think about.
Most of the calls I get about them are based on repairs. They are a real pain to take out for service. They are also not as convienent to get to for kids, elderly and while cooking.
I'm enjoying your posts and following along in the process. Your building an amazing home!!!!
Eddie
Alan is dead on about the sheetrock, especially in the shower. No way I'd use it there. The tub is marginal, it depends on usage. The average whirlpool tub is used 4 times.
One thing that I'm personally against, but I'm probably the only person on the planet that feels this way, is putting the plasma tv over the fireplace. It looks real nice there. Balances the room, makes decorating easier and does't take up any space. Your eye is already drawn to the fireplace and all those supporting reasons for doing it are valid.
For me, I just don't like lookin up at the screen. Two friends have them like that and it just bothers me. Again, it's just my personaly preference, but there's no way I'd do that in my persnal home unless I had another big screen someplace that I could be comfortable watching.
The kitchen is going to be amazing. The high ceilings and recessed lights already make it look very grand.
I work on a smaller scale, so I'm sure this won't apply to you, but custom cabinet made cabinets rarele come out as good as what I can buy at Home Depot. High end jobs are different, but you pay for that level of finish. Big time!!!
Mid level homes have all gone to the overhead microwave vent over the stove. I think this is a mistake and I'm hearing complaints about it from some people. I won't do on a home I live in, but realize it's a selling point on a spec home. High end homes never seem to do this, so I'm sure it's not something you need to think about.
Most of the calls I get about them are based on repairs. They are a real pain to take out for service. They are also not as convienent to get to for kids, elderly and while cooking.
I'm enjoying your posts and following along in the process. Your building an amazing home!!!!
Eddie
Alan L.
Elite Member
bmac, glad you will consider changing it. It will save you lots of agony later on. I put in a shower with green sheetrock in 1986 and by 1989 I knocked an indention in the shower wall just by accidently elbowing it while taking a shower. I tried sealing it to no avail. I finally pulled out one wall and found the sheetrock was completely soft and waterlogged. Then it was the next wall down to the shower pan. I finally ripped it all out about chest high and replaced with Duroc board and re-tiled. Not a fun job at all.
In the same bathroom we had a tub similar to yours. At least it a appears you have the concrete board on top where it is most critical. Mine was green sheetrock and it went bad about the same time the shower did. But the side on the front had some damage too, although I didn't replace all of it.
In the future I would use concrete board in the entire shower enclosure and also anything around the tub where contact with moisture is a possibility. Shouldn't add much cost at all.
In fact I probably will stay away from tile in the walls altogether because of the negative experience I have had with it. Be sure the grout is sealed after everthing has cured properly. This will help keep the grout clean and keep moisture out from behind the tiles.
Very nice house you have going there. I will be glad when I get to do one!
In the same bathroom we had a tub similar to yours. At least it a appears you have the concrete board on top where it is most critical. Mine was green sheetrock and it went bad about the same time the shower did. But the side on the front had some damage too, although I didn't replace all of it.
In the future I would use concrete board in the entire shower enclosure and also anything around the tub where contact with moisture is a possibility. Shouldn't add much cost at all.
In fact I probably will stay away from tile in the walls altogether because of the negative experience I have had with it. Be sure the grout is sealed after everthing has cured properly. This will help keep the grout clean and keep moisture out from behind the tiles.
Very nice house you have going there. I will be glad when I get to do one!
Eddie,
Aren't you supposed to be diggin' a lake? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Well, I guess you need to take a TBN break every once an a while.
<font color="blue"> One thing that I'm personally against...is putting the plasma tv over the fireplace. For me, I just don't like lookin up at the screen. </font>
I hear ya, pal. The only other option (and this is one my wife favors) would be to eliminate the tv from the family room all together. Well, I guess we could put a small tv on one of the shelves to the right or left of the fireplace, but I've been spoiled by large screens and don't want to go back to 20". The thing I've found that I think will help in this regard is a mounting bracket that will allow the screen to tip the top of the tv forward, so the screen faces slightly downward. I'm hoping this will alleviate some of the neck cramping associated with looking up at the tv.
<font color="blue"> Mid level homes have all gone to the overhead microwave vent over the stove. I think this is a mistake and I'm hearing complaints about it from some people. </font>
Yeah, I call those recirculators instead of vents. The hood over our stove will be vented through the roof (vent pipe is already in). The motor will be roof mounted to minimize noise in the kitchen. They are supposed to work very well. I'll find out soon enough, I guess.
I honestly don't remember where the microwave is going. Certainly not over the range. But exactly where, I don't know. I let my wife work out the kitchen details as she is the cook and I wanted it laid out in a way that made sense to her. I currently have one over the range and my youngest kid can reach it well enough to make popcorn, which is all she cares to use it for now, anyway.
Eddie, your lake is looking great. I was thinking about your burning problems when I posted about our burn pit. It really accelerated the process. Don't know if its too late for you now to consider this technique or not. In any event, thanks for checking in here posting your comments.
Aren't you supposed to be diggin' a lake? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Well, I guess you need to take a TBN break every once an a while.
<font color="blue"> One thing that I'm personally against...is putting the plasma tv over the fireplace. For me, I just don't like lookin up at the screen. </font>
I hear ya, pal. The only other option (and this is one my wife favors) would be to eliminate the tv from the family room all together. Well, I guess we could put a small tv on one of the shelves to the right or left of the fireplace, but I've been spoiled by large screens and don't want to go back to 20". The thing I've found that I think will help in this regard is a mounting bracket that will allow the screen to tip the top of the tv forward, so the screen faces slightly downward. I'm hoping this will alleviate some of the neck cramping associated with looking up at the tv.
<font color="blue"> Mid level homes have all gone to the overhead microwave vent over the stove. I think this is a mistake and I'm hearing complaints about it from some people. </font>
Yeah, I call those recirculators instead of vents. The hood over our stove will be vented through the roof (vent pipe is already in). The motor will be roof mounted to minimize noise in the kitchen. They are supposed to work very well. I'll find out soon enough, I guess.
I honestly don't remember where the microwave is going. Certainly not over the range. But exactly where, I don't know. I let my wife work out the kitchen details as she is the cook and I wanted it laid out in a way that made sense to her. I currently have one over the range and my youngest kid can reach it well enough to make popcorn, which is all she cares to use it for now, anyway.
Eddie, your lake is looking great. I was thinking about your burning problems when I posted about our burn pit. It really accelerated the process. Don't know if its too late for you now to consider this technique or not. In any event, thanks for checking in here posting your comments.
Well, my builder is out of town but I talked to his son (partner) about the green board vs cement board in the wet areas. As I suspected, he said that they will do whatever I want (this is a cost + project so they don't care how much I spend). However, he said that they do not lay the tile directly on the green board. Instead, he said they apply what sounded to me like a thick coat of some waterproof material (sounds like the elastomeric stuff they waterproofed the basement walls with). Now, he was in a bad cell when we were talking and I was rushed, so I did not get much more from him than that. I don't think it was membrane that comes in sheet or roll form, rather something that is brushed, rolled or sprayed on. In any event, he assured me that water will not penetrate it and that they have never had a problem using this method. But again, all I have to do is give them the word (and the money) and they will rip out the green board and replace it with cement board.
Thats all I have now. My builder won't be back until Wednesday night. I'll talk to him Thursday.
Thats all I have now. My builder won't be back until Wednesday night. I'll talk to him Thursday.
KAB
Gold Member
I had heard the same issue with greenboard from years ago. A few months back I visited a friend who was using greenboard around a tub and I asked him if he was sure he wanted to do that (he used to work in a supply store until he became Mr. Mom). He walked over to a covered container that he had a piece of greenboard soaking in water. He handed me the piece and said "try to break it." I was actually amazed that it felt very solid, paper was wet but as solid as a dry piece. He then told me it had been soaking for about a week. He did this to show his wife because she wanted him to use cement board instead.
If it was not for this I would also say to use cement board (and had used cement board in place of greenboard) instead of green board.
Try it for yourself. If it does not hold up the way you want, have them replace it. If it holds up, why change?
Kurt
If it was not for this I would also say to use cement board (and had used cement board in place of greenboard) instead of green board.
Try it for yourself. If it does not hold up the way you want, have them replace it. If it holds up, why change?
Kurt
Alan L.
Elite Member
I don't know about soaking green sheetrock in a tub, I know bouncing shower spray off the wall every day for a few years will destroy it. Or perhaps mine was substandard material or something. Mine did not have any kind of membrane or anything on it, perhaps this would have saved it.
Its all done and looks pretty, and I can understand why it might be a pain to take it out, if you feel comfortable that whatever they put on there is bullet proof.
Its all done and looks pretty, and I can understand why it might be a pain to take it out, if you feel comfortable that whatever they put on there is bullet proof.
Alan L.
Elite Member
At the risk of causing you undue worry, I took a look and found some quotes from other forums as to the use of green sheetrock as tile backing. I read several instances where they say it will no longer be "code" beginning in 2006.
Specifially, here is the text from a post. I have no way of knowing the validity of this information.
The current plumbing codes strictly prohibit both standard wall board (Sheetrock) and Water resistant wallboard (Greenboard) in the shower enclosure area. (Water resistant wallboard may be used behind preformed one piece tub/shower units with a written approval of the local inspecting authority.)
Tilebackerboard (cement hardboard) must be installed in the shower or tub/shower enclosure area until it reaches a height of 72" above the finished drain. (International Residential code IRC 307.2 & Uniform Plumbing Code UPC 807.1.3)
Cement Backerboard requires house wrap building paper backing on the studs before applying the backerboard (IRC-per manufacturer or local code spec & UPC 807.1.3)
All joints must be coated with a water resistant sealant (IRC 702.4.2 & UPC 807.1.3).
All other wall surfaces in the bathroom are to be covered with water resistant wallboard (greenboard)
Water resistant wallboard IS NOT to be installed over a vapor barrier membrane (IRC 702.4.3 & UPC 2512)
Water resistant wallboard IS NOT to be installed on a ceiling if the framing is spaced greater than 12" on center (IRC 702.4.2 & UPC 2512)
Ceramic tile may be applied directly on water resistant wallboard (not in a shower enclosure). (IRC 702.4.1 & UPC-check local code).
Specifially, here is the text from a post. I have no way of knowing the validity of this information.
The current plumbing codes strictly prohibit both standard wall board (Sheetrock) and Water resistant wallboard (Greenboard) in the shower enclosure area. (Water resistant wallboard may be used behind preformed one piece tub/shower units with a written approval of the local inspecting authority.)
Tilebackerboard (cement hardboard) must be installed in the shower or tub/shower enclosure area until it reaches a height of 72" above the finished drain. (International Residential code IRC 307.2 & Uniform Plumbing Code UPC 807.1.3)
Cement Backerboard requires house wrap building paper backing on the studs before applying the backerboard (IRC-per manufacturer or local code spec & UPC 807.1.3)
All joints must be coated with a water resistant sealant (IRC 702.4.2 & UPC 807.1.3).
All other wall surfaces in the bathroom are to be covered with water resistant wallboard (greenboard)
Water resistant wallboard IS NOT to be installed over a vapor barrier membrane (IRC 702.4.3 & UPC 2512)
Water resistant wallboard IS NOT to be installed on a ceiling if the framing is spaced greater than 12" on center (IRC 702.4.2 & UPC 2512)
Ceramic tile may be applied directly on water resistant wallboard (not in a shower enclosure). (IRC 702.4.1 & UPC-check local code).
<font color="blue"> At the risk of causing you undue worry,... </font>
Alan,
To quote Alfred E. Newman, "What, me worry?" Not at all. In fact, I appreciate the time and trouble you've gone through to educate me on this. Your position on this issue is sound. I will allow my builder the chance to convince me that his approach is, as you say, bulletproof. In the end, however, it will be my decision to make. I'm leaning toward the cement backer board.
Alan,
To quote Alfred E. Newman, "What, me worry?" Not at all. In fact, I appreciate the time and trouble you've gone through to educate me on this. Your position on this issue is sound. I will allow my builder the chance to convince me that his approach is, as you say, bulletproof. In the end, however, it will be my decision to make. I'm leaning toward the cement backer board.
dmccarty
Super Star Member
bmac,
The green board HAS to go. No IFs, No ANDS, and NO BUTS.
The house I lived in for years had that stuff behind the tile. The stuff will get moisture. The Tile WILL not stay on the green board. You will get mold. I had to redo my baths surrounds and I messed up my back doing it. If I could find the the builder.....
When I built the new house the drywall guys just threw up green board in the baths per the contract. BUT the surrounds were to be cement board. They had to take down the green board around the showers and baths to put up cement board.
The mastic/thin set specs that I read said to apply ONLY to cement board. My baths had been repaired over the years. When they were fixed they put in pieces of cement board. When I deconstructed the surrounds that stuff was heck to get out. The tile on the green board was easy. Tap it and it fell.
I can't imagine having a problem with tile on cement board.
They other thing to do it to put up plastic or building paper in the wall cavities behind the cement board to keep the moisture out of the wall. Tile and grout is not water proof. Nor is cement or green board.
I don't have a picture of our shower but it does not have a door. Its a walk in shower roughly 3 feet wide by 5 feet deep. We get a bit of water on the floor outside the shower but not much and we always put down a towel to step on anyway. Plus our floors our finished concrete so we dont really care about water anyway. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
The wall for privacy is a good idea. I have young kids and their bathroom is as large as ours. Its close to their rooms. But they are always in OUR bathroom. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
Back to the green board. Its supposed to be used in places that have high humidity but NOT exposed to water like in a shower or bath. Its good stuff if used properly but alot of contractors just throw it up. WHY the tile contracter would tile on the stuff is beyond me since he will get the call back.... Get that stuff out of their its a major repair and expense waiting to happen. Even doing most of the work myself I still spent a couple of thousand dollars and I had only two small baths not the huge tile area you have.
Later,
Dan
The green board HAS to go. No IFs, No ANDS, and NO BUTS.
The house I lived in for years had that stuff behind the tile. The stuff will get moisture. The Tile WILL not stay on the green board. You will get mold. I had to redo my baths surrounds and I messed up my back doing it. If I could find the the builder.....
When I built the new house the drywall guys just threw up green board in the baths per the contract. BUT the surrounds were to be cement board. They had to take down the green board around the showers and baths to put up cement board.
The mastic/thin set specs that I read said to apply ONLY to cement board. My baths had been repaired over the years. When they were fixed they put in pieces of cement board. When I deconstructed the surrounds that stuff was heck to get out. The tile on the green board was easy. Tap it and it fell.
I can't imagine having a problem with tile on cement board.
They other thing to do it to put up plastic or building paper in the wall cavities behind the cement board to keep the moisture out of the wall. Tile and grout is not water proof. Nor is cement or green board.
I don't have a picture of our shower but it does not have a door. Its a walk in shower roughly 3 feet wide by 5 feet deep. We get a bit of water on the floor outside the shower but not much and we always put down a towel to step on anyway. Plus our floors our finished concrete so we dont really care about water anyway. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
The wall for privacy is a good idea. I have young kids and their bathroom is as large as ours. Its close to their rooms. But they are always in OUR bathroom. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
Back to the green board. Its supposed to be used in places that have high humidity but NOT exposed to water like in a shower or bath. Its good stuff if used properly but alot of contractors just throw it up. WHY the tile contracter would tile on the stuff is beyond me since he will get the call back.... Get that stuff out of their its a major repair and expense waiting to happen. Even doing most of the work myself I still spent a couple of thousand dollars and I had only two small baths not the huge tile area you have.
Later,
Dan
rox
Veteran Member
bmac,
have been working every day since Oct 30 on harvesting the olives so haven't been checking in that often. Regarding the greenboard. That is what they put in all my bathrooms and in the master bath shower, after 10 years, some tile seperated near the bottom of the shower door. So it did happen to me as well, but in just one small area. OTOH, who knows what is behind the rest f the tile???
Consider perhaps ripping out and putting in cement board just in the main showers, each of your kid's and yours. Guest bath doesn't get used that much.
Thanks for taking the time to post your photo's, it will be even more fun to watch as the project moves forward to finish.
What are you doing for flooring BTW?
House looks great. Love the brick. Oh one more thing, about the flat screen tv, I don't own one but wouldn't reclining chairs and modular recling sofas and love seats make the viewing comfortable? I know this is going to be an idea that is your wife's department but thought I would pass it along.
Our family room was similar and I bought a huge leather modualr sofa that made an L with 4 reciners in the furniture. I placed it in the middle of the room facing the fireplace (tv was off to the right of the fP)and just had a coffee table, like I said it was a large piece. There was room to walk behind the furniture into the kitchen, I didn't butt the furniture up agains tthe wall. Seems to me like recliners would enhance your enjoyment of the flat screen tv. FWIW...
have been working every day since Oct 30 on harvesting the olives so haven't been checking in that often. Regarding the greenboard. That is what they put in all my bathrooms and in the master bath shower, after 10 years, some tile seperated near the bottom of the shower door. So it did happen to me as well, but in just one small area. OTOH, who knows what is behind the rest f the tile???
Consider perhaps ripping out and putting in cement board just in the main showers, each of your kid's and yours. Guest bath doesn't get used that much.
Thanks for taking the time to post your photo's, it will be even more fun to watch as the project moves forward to finish.
What are you doing for flooring BTW?
House looks great. Love the brick. Oh one more thing, about the flat screen tv, I don't own one but wouldn't reclining chairs and modular recling sofas and love seats make the viewing comfortable? I know this is going to be an idea that is your wife's department but thought I would pass it along.
Our family room was similar and I bought a huge leather modualr sofa that made an L with 4 reciners in the furniture. I placed it in the middle of the room facing the fireplace (tv was off to the right of the fP)and just had a coffee table, like I said it was a large piece. There was room to walk behind the furniture into the kitchen, I didn't butt the furniture up agains tthe wall. Seems to me like recliners would enhance your enjoyment of the flat screen tv. FWIW...
