Natural gas?

[Sigarms]

When I bought this farm house I was going to rip out the old Trane HP and install a 90+ nat, gas furnace with a inverter straight A/C condenser. But I decided to give this ducted VRF a try. I must say I've been pleased and impressed at the same time.
If I manage to out live this VRF, I may just go with the 90+ nat. gas furnace and inverter A/C condenser next round.

I think the average winter temp in Alabama is a little colder than where I'm at in NC. I know I was surprised when I first moved down to NC how cold it gets in our area, and even colder going west to higher elevation. Keep in mind, we're generally talking about 4-8 weeks max out of the year if that. I mean even in Greensboro NC there are actually more heating hours in the year vs cooling hours, and that surprised me.

When my father lived with us in the basement, cooling is not what was needed, but heating (didn't even need to run the AC in the summer down there for him). I put a single stage compressor (dual fuel) and left the existing Trane gas furnace after my father died and the realtor suggested updating the HVAC systems before we sell. The reality is there is no way a single stage heat pump would keep the basement pushing 80F during the colder months IMO.

 

[kenmac]

I think the average winter temp in Alabama is a little colder than where I'm at in NC. I know I was surprised when I first moved down to NC how cold it gets in our area, and even colder going west to higher elevation. Keep in mind, we're generally talking about 4-8 weeks max out of the year if that. I mean even in Greensboro NC there are actually more heating hours in the year vs cooling hours, and that surprised me.

I had no idea of the weather in your state vs mine so this is what I found.

''Alabama usually experiences milder, warmer temps. compared to North Carolina.''

I know temps. differ in different parts of Al., and that's probably true for your state as well . The farther north you get in Al, the colder it can get in the winter months.
North Al has had snow this season while we have had none .

We've had great weather this past week. in the 60's - 70's, but the next couple nights are suppose to be lows 27 deg and high in mid 40's during the day, then back to the 60's-70's.

I thought I was finished having to heat the water for the cattle to prevent freezing, but I guess I'll have to turn the heaters on for a couple more nights.

 

[ultrarunner]

My plan is to keep natural gas as long as possible… it works and relatively simple to very simple when it comes to 100 year old floor furnaces.

About 25 years ago I updated all of the remaining key controlled furnaces to thermostats with gas valve…

 

[Sigarms]

I had no idea of the weather in your state vs mine so this is what I found.

I screwed up what I was saying. Common sense would have told me that NC has colder temps than Alabama gets in the winter.

Yes, East of 95 in the state is generally warmer than Greensboro going west. Could be sunny and cold in Winston Salem and 2 hours away in Boone, they could be having a snow storm (seriously).

Western part of NC has a much higher elevation than Raleigh going east. Raleigh is about 300', where I'm at is 1,000' and Boone is up around 3,000'.

 

[arto98607]

@Sigarms thanks! I found that post very informative and helpful.

I'd love to put in geothermal here, but my choices are either renting an excavator and doing it myself, or no geothermal. Geothermal is basically unheard of here, which means almost nobody does it, they do it rarely, so they are out of practice, and as a result megabucks pricey, which gives an ROI of forever. Just the first 100' from the house are basically hand trench only for a variety of hazards.$$$

All the best,

Peter

Here is one that was done years ago by company that is doing geothermal exclusively.

The trench is 5' wide and 5' deep, about 290 yards long (or 1/6th of a mile) for a six ton heat-pump system.

No rocks.
Hand digging any distance - mixed feelings!

 

[kenmac]

I screwed up what I was saying. Common sense would have told me that NC has colder temps than Alabama gets in the winter.

Yes, East of 95 in the state is generally warmer than Greensboro going west. Could be sunny and cold in Winston Salem and 2 hours away in Boone, they could be having a snow storm (seriously).

Western part of NC has a much higher elevation than Raleigh going east. Raleigh is about 300', where I'm at is 1,000' and Boone is up around 3,000'.

That's the way here. In No. Al. they may have several inches of snow and I have none in my area. Been really nice the last few days. Now it will get down in the 20's the next couple nights, and mid to high 40's during the day. then Wednesday, it's back in the mid 60's

 

[Sigarms]

That's the way here. In No. Al. they may have several inches of snow and I have none in my area. Been really nice the last few days. Now it will get down in the 20's the next couple nights, and mid to high 40's during the day. then Wednesday, it's back in the mid 60's

The funny thing is even within the state of NC, you can see the differences on what kind of HVAC equipment is being used.

Greensboro east to the shore probably puts in 30 times more gas packs for residential use. Winston west and north puts in a lot more high heat ductless systems because 10F OAT is not out of the norm in during winter.

School systems, commercial use and churches, hydronic systems are not that uncommon across the state, but on the residential side, hydronic and oil systems are more prevalent west of I-77 going down through the state.

What's funny is being a darn yankee, I can remember when the only place for a package unit was commercial use and generally always on a roof. Here in NC, I come across anything up to 20 ton having the chance to be on the side of a building.

No different than areas for install on residential use. Majority of residential systems in NC are in the horizontal position because most houses don't have basements, and most of the installs are in attics or crawl spaces. The two systems in our current basement were easy retrofits being in a mechanical room with plenty of head room. The one thats going to be replaced in the attic this weekend will be a major PITA in the attic. I've got a unfinished basement in the new house, but basement ceiling height is lower than what we have now. Had to do some looking for a 20" tall coil to connect to the new furnace for a total height of 55" for the duct connections.

Always interesting when traveling to see what type of systems each state uses.

No different than heat pumps being big down south and gas AC systems big up north. Heck, I even hear Florida uses straight AC units with air handlers, which is a rarity in NC.

 

[kenmac]

The funny thing is even within the state of NC, you can see the differences on what kind of HVAC equipment is being used.

Greensboro east to the shore probably puts in 30 times more gas packs for residential use. Winston west and north puts in a lot more high heat ductless systems because 10F OAT is not out of the norm in during winter.

School systems, commercial use and churches, hydronic systems are not that uncommon across the state, but on the residential side, hydronic and oil systems are more prevalent west of I-77 going down through the state.

What's funny is being a darn yankee, I can remember when the only place for a package unit was commercial use and generally always on a roof. Here in NC, I come across anything up to 20 ton having the chance to be on the side of a building.

No different than areas for install on residential use. Majority of residential systems in NC are in the horizontal position because most houses don't have basements, and most of the installs are in attics or crawl spaces. The two systems in our current basement were easy retrofits being in a mechanical room with plenty of head room. The one thats going to be replaced in the attic this weekend will be a major PITA in the attic. I've got a unfinished basement in the new house, but basement ceiling height is lower than what we have now. Had to do some looking for a 20" tall coil to connect to the new furnace for a total height of 55" for the duct connections.

Always interesting when traveling to see what type of systems each state uses.

No different than heat pumps being big down south and gas AC systems big up north. Heck, I even hear Florida uses straight AC units with air handlers, which is a rarity in NC.

There are a lot of package units here. especially in the older areas where they use to have floor furnaces. those old floor furnaces were removed and the hole in the floor used as the return . Not ideal as it catches everything, but it was a great way to fill the hole where the floor furnace was located.

larger package units are used on the roof of some commercial buildings while others sit the package unit on the ground.

There are not any oil systems around here. Some of the older homes had small water boilers , but they are all but gone now in favor of central heating /cooling systems. We even had some old coal burners that were converted to NG, but they too are all gone.
The older floor furnaces that used a power pile, or pilot generator that worked without any elec., etc,etc, I've seen my share of all the older stuff. Oh, how great the simpler times were !!! LOL

 

[ultrarunner]

There are a lot of package units here. especially in the older areas where they use to have floor furnaces. those old floor furnaces were removed and the hole in the floor used as the return . Not ideal as it catches everything, but it was a great way to fill the hole where the floor furnace was located.

larger package units are used on the roof of some commercial buildings while others sit the package unit on the ground.

There are not any oil systems around here. Some of the older homes had small water boilers , but they are all but gone now in favor of central heating /cooling systems. We even had some old coal burners that were converted to NG, but they too are all gone.
The older floor furnaces that used a power pile, or pilot generator that worked without any elec., etc,etc, I've seen my share of all the older stuff. Oh, how great the simpler times were !!! LOL

I’m still maintaining these… even a coal convert to natural gas.

Going from a gas key to a thermostat was luxury.

 

[Up to the Axles]

We're downsizing house and property after being here for over 20 years.
...
Big plus to my wife is this home is a total renovation (built in 1962 and still looks it) so new kitchen and she's liking the idea of a natural gas stove for cooking.

Assuming the utility can keep the pressure up; the SOP seems to be "high pressure" [i,e. 30~40psi] distribution and regulator at each meter.

My sole concern would be the increasingly disturbing evidence re: indoor air quality with gas stoves. The new inductive stoves seems to get good reviews from cooking friends. But you may need some new, ferrous, pans.

ps: Don't forget to find Harvest Gold color appliances to keep that JFK-era styling....

 

[ultrarunner]

Assuming the utility can keep the pressure up; the SOP seems to be "high pressure" [i,e. 30~40psi] distribution and regulator at each meter.

My sole concern would be the increasingly disturbing evidence re: indoor air quality with gas stoves. The new inductive stoves seems to get good reviews from cooking friends. But you may need some new, ferrous, pans.

ps: Don't forget to find Harvest Gold color appliances to keep that JFK-era styling....

The colors really took off late 60’s and 70’s

Dads friend had a small appliance store and white dominated in the RFK era.

Avocado, Harvest Gold, Coffee, etc, followed…

Almond was seen as a step up and much later biscuit.

I’ve hauled away 2 induction stoves… the senior new home owners couldn’t adjust… one went electric and the other gas.

Range hoods easily vent gas from cooktop and all the old stoves had a stove pipe for the oven… mostly chrome.

 

[ponytug]

I can tell you how much better the indoor air quality got. It was a lot. Of course, if one has a typical California home with 2,000cfm of air movement through the house, it might be round off error.

I used to cook in large industrial kitchens, and while I miss the enormous power of those 100,000+BTU burners, I think that there is no comparison between a residential gas stove and induction stoves. Induction stoves heat faster, sear better, boil water more quickly, with very fine heat control, and without the combustion products and gummy deposits from frying fats near a gas flame. I think that the only slight downside for me is that the pots are heavier, so I can see why elderly folks with hand issues or frailty might not enjoy turning in some lightweight aluminum pots for induction compatible pots.

But that's just me.

All the best,

Peter

 

[Sigarms]

I can tell you how much better the indoor air quality got. It was a lot. Of course, if one has a typical California home with 2,000cfm of air movement through the house, it might be round off error.

I used to cook in large industrial kitchens, and while I miss the enormous power of those 100,000+BTU burners, I think that there is no comparison between a residential gas stove and induction stoves. Induction stoves heat faster, sear better, boil water more quickly, with very fine heat control, and without the combustion products and gummy deposits from frying fats near a gas flame. I think that the only slight downside for me is that the pots are heavier, so I can see why elderly folks with hand issues or frailty might not enjoy turning in some lightweight aluminum pots for induction compatible pots.

But that's just me.

All the best,

Peter

I don't doubt you, but my wife wanted a gas top. She's going to win over you even though I do highly value your opinion

 

[rontaki]

Assuming the utility can keep the pressure up; the SOP seems to be "high pressure" [i,e. 30~40psi] distribution and regulator at each meter.

My sole concern would be the increasingly disturbing evidence re: indoor air quality with gas stoves. The new inductive stoves seems to get good reviews from cooking friends. But you may need some new, ferrous, pans.

ps: Don't forget to find Harvest Gold color appliances to keep that JFK-era styling....

I'm not worried about some supposedly bad indoor air quality from gas stoves; I think that is propaganda to get you away from gas appliances, by the greentards. I also do not have my house sealed up airtight, due to actual outgassing from just about everything in it. It's well insulated and has double-pane windows, so fairly energy efficient without being anazial* about it.

Besides, I like fire! Not to mention that I won't give up my cast iron cookware
It's ferrous, but could damage the tender, politically correct glass surface of an induction stovetop.

*anazial- a portmanteau of two banned words, easy to figure what they are.

 

[lman]

I'm not worried about some supposedly bad indoor air quality from gas stoves; I think that is propaganda to get you away from gas appliances, by the greentards. I also do not have my house sealed up airtight, due to actual outgassing from just about everything in it. It's well insulated and has double-pane windows, so fairly energy efficient without being anazial* about it.

Besides, I like fire! Not to mention that I won't give up my cast iron cookware
It's ferrous, but could damage the tender, politically correct glass surface of an induction stovetop.

*anazial- a portmanteau of two banned words, easy to figure what they are.

Natural gas isn't available here but I do use cast iron skillets on my induction cooktop.

 

[Sigarms]

I think that is propaganda to get you away from gas appliances, by the greentards.

SHAME on you! I thought all the greentards lived in California?

 

[Sigarms]

Natural gas isn't available here but I do use cast iron skillets on my induction cooktop.

And thus after being on LP for over 20 years and my wife working with a electric stove, when she saw that gas line marker off the road, it was call the gas company! LOL

 

[rontaki]

Natural gas isn't available here but I do use cast iron skillets on my induction cooktop.

Be careful to not scratch the glass, as that weakens it.
I'm on propane, the gas cooktop does not use much. And I'll never worry about breaking the cast iron grates.

 

[rontaki]

SHAME on you! I thought all the greentards lived in California?

Some Californians have functional brains, we're in the minority for sure.

 

[ponytug]

I don't doubt you, but my wife wanted a gas top. She's going to win over you even though I do highly value your opinion

Wife trumps guest every time! As she should.

All the best,

Peter