Flail Mower Let's talk flail mowers

[threeoranges]

Yes, there are four bolts which hold the gearbox to the mower.

They are untightened before the tension bolt is adjusted, and retightened after the tension bolt is adjusted, before operating the mower.

I tried lifting the gearbox when the four bolts were loose, on the chance that I could stop the noise, but I did not succeed.

It seems that the U-joint on the implement side strikes the top of the gearbox if it's raised high enough to tighten the 40" outer circumference belts. I will try shorter belts.

 

[TractorNoob85]

Yes, there are four bolts which hold the gearbox to the mower.

They are untightened before the tension bolt is adjusted, and retightened after the tension bolt is adjusted, before operating the mower.

I tried lifting the gearbox when the four bolts were loose, on the chance that I could stop the noise, but I did not succeed.

It seems that the U-joint on the implement side strikes the top of the gearbox if it's raised high enough to tighten the 40" outer circumference belts. I will try shorter belts.

The 4 bolts of the gearbox do not get loosed. The piece of metal that the gearbox attaches to has 4 bolts, 1 at each corner. I circled them in the photos. You can see how they are slotted to pivot when the adjuster bolt is raised or lowered.

 

[threeoranges]

Yes, those are the ones that I was talking about. They are loosened and retightened. By "gearbox" I meant the entire assembly.

 

[TractorNoob85]

Im at a loss then. If you run out of adjustment, then a shorter belt will be required. Regarding the noise when running, is the side shaft hitting the cover? Does the gearbox have plenty of oil? Are there metal shavings in the gear oil?

 

[threeoranges]

Im at a loss then. If you run out of adjustment, then a shorter belt will be required. Regarding the noise when running, is the side shaft hitting the cover? Does the gearbox have plenty of oil? Are there metal shavings in the gear oil?

I cannot see the exact hitting with the PTO guard on, but I can see the orange metal underneath the U-Joint vibrating as though it is being struck from above, and the banging noise happens roughly once per revolution. I think the U-Joint is striking the top of the orange gearbox assembly underneath it when the tension bolt is tightened enough to make a 40" outer circumference A38K belt tight enough.

I bought an A37K 39" outer circumference belt, but I cannot get it on the pulley even with a screwdriver, and even when the tension bolt is totally loose. I may need to remove the bearing and pulley and wrap the belt around it and then reinstall the pulley. Or try finding a 39.5" outer circumference belt.

The shear bolt is on the tractor side, as per the warning sticker on the PTO shaft which has an arrow pointing left toward the back of a tractor picture. I have been told by Betstco that the shear bolt should be on the tractor side, and that if it breaks, the drivetrain will stop spinning, while if it were on the implement side, the drivetrain would still spin even though the mower doesn't.

There are no metal filings or dark oil in the gearbox. It is filled to the max until the drain hole on the side drips. I leave the drain hole on the side open for a few seconds for all excess to drain out.

 

[threeoranges]

I have been talking to Aaron Pierce for a few days now.

"Keith" (mentioned at the top of this thread) is no longer with Betstco.

I will try some more suggestions from Aaron tomorrow, but he might have to send me a new PTO shaft.

Would there be any damage if I removed the bearing and pulley so that I can wrap shorter belts around it and then reattach the pulley?

It is too difficult to install a 39" belt, even with a flat screwdriver and even when the tension bolt is totally loose.

A 40" belt, which is listed in the parts manual (Napa A38), can be installed with some effort by rotating the pulley to guide the belt around it. But once it falls into the V-belt groove, it is too loose unless the tension bolt is screwed to its max, which causes the banging sound near the implement side of the PTO shaft.

 

[OldTrix]

Greetings Flail Mower Nation,

811 pages. Whew! I admit I sorta skipped through a lot if the earlier stuff, but it is amazing to see how much pricing has increased in 18 years.

Seeking advice on my first flail mower purchase:

We bought a place in VT with 28 acres of mixed pastureland and woods. Now that I'm here full time, I plan to reclaim some of the old orchard land and clean up the logging trails running through the woods. I also have a pond that would benefit from a ditch/bank mower to clean up the banks. Weed whacking it by hand truly sucks.

From all the advice and experience I've read here, It's clear a ditch/bank mower is the ticket. I can keep fence rows and trails clear with a vertical pass and be able to use the offset to catch the pond and stream banks.

I have a Mahindra 2665 that is 65HP, 50 at the PTO, with a cat II TPH. With the front loader and filled tires, it is somewhere north of 7500lbs.

I've been gumming by with a 6 ft RC, but it is difficult with all the trees interfering with the cab along the edges. It also sucks trying to reclaim areas that have been taken over by brush and saplings.

So, I'm convinced a ditch/bank mower with hammers is the solution. I can swap out for Y blades once things get groomed up a bit.

I'm leery of going smaller than 70" as it takes a lot of time as it is mowing everything (including the Neighbor's 7 Acres) but also concerned about the weight of the larger mowers.

Does anyone have any real world experience with 70-78" mowers on a tractor my size? (@LouNY , you're a bit bigger than mine). I'm worried about stability when offset with the heavier 1500-1800 lb units.

Any specific brands to avoid?

Also, I see some brands have float controller options. Could someone explain to my 5th grade brain how those function and if I need one?

Hoping to pull the trigger this month or next and get crackin this season.

 

[JWR]

Greetings Flail Mower Nation,

811 pages. Whew! I admit I sorta skipped through a lot if the earlier stuff, but it is amazing to see how much pricing has increased in 18 years.

Seeking advice on my first flail mower purchase:

We bought a place in VT with 28 acres of mixed pastureland and woods. Now that I'm here full time, I plan to reclaim some of the old orchard land and clean up the logging trails running through the woods. I also have a pond that would benefit from a ditch/bank mower to clean up the banks. Weed whacking it by hand truly sucks.

From all the advice and experience I've read here, It's clear a ditch/bank mower is the ticket. I can keep fence rows and trails clear with a vertical pass and be able to use the offset to catch the pond and stream banks.

I have a Mahindra 2665 that is 65HP, 50 at the PTO, with a cat II TPH. With the front loader and filled tires, it is somewhere north of 7500lbs.

I've been gumming by with a 6 ft RC, but it is difficult with all the trees interfering with the cab along the edges. It also sucks trying to reclaim areas that have been taken over by brush and saplings.

So, I'm convinced a ditch/bank mower with hammers is the solution. I can swap out for Y blades once things get groomed up a bit.

I'm leery of going smaller than 70" as it takes a lot of time as it is mowing everything (including the Neighbor's 7 Acres) but also concerned about the weight of the larger mowers.

Does anyone have any real world experience with 70-78" mowers on a tractor my size? (@LouNY , you're a bit bigger than mine). I'm worried about stability when offset with the heavier 1500-1800 lb units.

Any specific brands to avoid?

Also, I see some brands have float controller options. Could someone explain to my 5th grade brain how those function and if I need one?

Hoping to pull the trigger this month or next and get crackin this season.

Flails are good tools and the hammer type will certainly allow beating down some heavier stuff. Reading thru your narrative I have these observations: nothing like authority but opinion...

1. I think the 6ft hog you already have is the right tool for your larger acreage. You probably could trade for a 7 foot hog which is what I use (but on a little larger 81 horse tractor.) You might like the 70-78 inch flail but I do not see the advantage of it.
2. I have a 7 1/2 ft Alamo flail mower which I like for annual cutting of meadows before winter, etc. However mine is "Y" cutters and using it out in the pasture field means having to stop and replace fails or do maint having hit a rock or too large a limb in the grass, etc. way too often.
3. For the pond and ditch banks there are a lot of options for mounting on your FEL or for offset gadgets in the back. In my experience they just never reach out far enough. I had a 17ft arm articulated boom mower on the back of my MF2660 but it was too much of a pain to get on and off the tractor. There are quite a few manufacturers of various rigs that offset and/or reach out and are 3pt hitch mounted. I was surprised to find so many varieties in searching around for them.
4. I ended up with a Lane Shark FEL mounted, hydraulic motor driven, cutter. They are in the $4K to $5K range. It is very flexible in terms of being able to reach out in front, switch to the right side offset position, etc. Designed to run off tractor hydraulics and does not require a PTO pump. One elderly man like me can get them on and off in short order. They are also really nice for cutting off overhanging limbs around the borders of meadows, etc. Mine is an early model (first one sold in the state of WVa) and the newer ones have some nicer features like hydraulic positioning of the angle of cutting (vertical down to horizontal, etc.) You may be interested to know the Lane Shark comes with either a flail cutter or 4ft rotary cutter. I chose the 4ft rotary which is very robust and cuts 2" limbs etc very well.

Good luck with whatever you end up doing.

 

[RjCorazza]

Greetings Flail Mower Nation,

811 pages. Whew! I admit I sorta skipped through a lot if the earlier stuff, but it is amazing to see how much pricing has increased in 18 years.

Seeking advice on my first flail mower purchase:

We bought a place in VT with 28 acres of mixed pastureland and woods. Now that I'm here full time, I plan to reclaim some of the old orchard land and clean up the logging trails running through the woods. I also have a pond that would benefit from a ditch/bank mower to clean up the banks. Weed whacking it by hand truly sucks.

From all the advice and experience I've read here, It's clear a ditch/bank mower is the ticket. I can keep fence rows and trails clear with a vertical pass and be able to use the offset to catch the pond and stream banks.

I have a Mahindra 2665 that is 65HP, 50 at the PTO, with a cat II TPH. With the front loader and filled tires, it is somewhere north of 7500lbs.

I've been gumming by with a 6 ft RC, but it is difficult with all the trees interfering with the cab along the edges. It also sucks trying to reclaim areas that have been taken over by brush and saplings.

So, I'm convinced a ditch/bank mower with hammers is the solution. I can swap out for Y blades once things get groomed up a bit.

I'm leery of going smaller than 70" as it takes a lot of time as it is mowing everything (including the Neighbor's 7 Acres) but also concerned about the weight of the larger mowers.

Does anyone have any real world experience with 70-78" mowers on a tractor my size? (@LouNY , you're a bit bigger than mine). I'm worried about stability when offset with the heavier 1500-1800 lb units.

Any specific brands to avoid?

Also, I see some brands have float controller options. Could someone explain to my 5th grade brain how those function and if I need one?

Hoping to pull the trigger this month or next and get crackin this season.

I have only used my ditch bank flail for one season. In that time, I believe my choice of a 62" flail (700 lbs) on a 6500 lb tractor was about as big as I would want. My primary use is running the flail over a stream bank (usually with the roller off the ground, fully extended). I certainly feel that weight out there, and I wouldn't want to be doing that on a slope.
As far as the knives, the hammers do a pretty good job as a finish mower also. I'm particular about how my 4 acre front yard looks, and the hammers leave a satisfactory finished look.
I agonized over brands, and ended up with a DelMorino. It is very well built and have had zero problems so far. The Chinese flails are tempting, but as I get older I'm more in the "buy once - cry once" club.

 

[LouNY]

Greetings Flail Mower Nation,

811 pages. Whew! I admit I sorta skipped through a lot if the earlier stuff, but it is amazing to see how much pricing has increased in 18 years.

Seeking advice on my first flail mower purchase:

We bought a place in VT with 28 acres of mixed pastureland and woods. Now that I'm here full time, I plan to reclaim some of the old orchard land and clean up the logging trails running through the woods. I also have a pond that would benefit from a ditch/bank mower to clean up the banks. Weed whacking it by hand truly sucks.

From all the advice and experience I've read here, It's clear a ditch/bank mower is the ticket. I can keep fence rows and trails clear with a vertical pass and be able to use the offset to catch the pond and stream banks.

I have a Mahindra 2665 that is 65HP, 50 at the PTO, with a cat II TPH. With the front loader and filled tires, it is somewhere north of 7500lbs.

I've been gumming by with a 6 ft RC, but it is difficult with all the trees interfering with the cab along the edges. It also sucks trying to reclaim areas that have been taken over by brush and saplings.

So, I'm convinced a ditch/bank mower with hammers is the solution. I can swap out for Y blades once things get groomed up a bit.

I'm leery of going smaller than 70" as it takes a lot of time as it is mowing everything (including the Neighbor's 7 Acres) but also concerned about the weight of the larger mowers.

Does anyone have any real world experience with 70-78" mowers on a tractor my size? (@LouNY , you're a bit bigger than mine). I'm worried about stability when offset with the heavier 1500-1800 lb units.

Any specific brands to avoid?

Also, I see some brands have float controller options. Could someone explain to my 5th grade brain how those function and if I need one?

Hoping to pull the trigger this month or next and get crackin this season.

My 86" is almost too big for my tractor, it can get the uphill side a bit light at times.
A 70" would likely be all you would want especially for working around a pond bank. You may want to consider additional weight on the unloaded side of the tractor.
As far as the float function it would be used on the tilt of the mower head, it would allow the head to follow the ground contours while running on the rear roller and/or guide shoes. It would be handy to have at times but it isn't a necessity as most of the tilt units do have a built in amount of "float" in the tilt linkage with the pin of the cylinder actually using a slot instead of a pin hole for mounting. With mower resting on the rear roller the tilt cylinder can be extended till the pin is in the middle of the slot which will allow the head to float up and down a bit on the outer end. It does require some attention to maintain it in that position while working.
One thing I need to do with mine is to add a CV joint into the pto shaft, and add a bit of guarding to the drive end for when I'm mowing horizontally as the gear box can get into obstacles and at times the u joint angle can get severe and start causing some vibration.

 

[RayIN]

I have been talking to Aaron Pierce for a few days now.

"Keith" (mentioned at the top of this thread) is no longer with Betstco.

I will try some more suggestions from Aaron tomorrow, but he might have to send me a new PTO shaft.

Would there be any damage if I removed the bearing and pulley so that I can wrap shorter belts around it and then reattach the pulley?

It is too difficult to install a 39" belt, even with a flat screwdriver and even when the tension bolt is totally loose.

A 40" belt, which is listed in the parts manual (Napa A38), can be installed with some effort by rotating the pulley to guide the belt around it. But once it falls into the V-belt groove, it is too loose unless the tension bolt is screwed to its max, which causes the banging sound near the implement side of the PTO shaft.

That sounds like your belt is too narrow. A V-belt should be 1/16" wider than the pulleys at the widest point. A V-belt should never run on the bottom of the pulley, the V sides are the traction point.

 

[HorsPower]

I recently purchased a Ironcraft FRF-165 (165 cm / 65”).

I’m running the mower behind a Kubota L5740 with filled rear tires and max wheel weights and FEL. Our tractors should be along the same weight.

I think it handles the mower well, and is pretty stable. (Albeit I haven’t run it on any extreme slopes).

For next size up in the 78” class, the weight of the mower basically doubles. Given the weight increase and having more offset I think the 78” would definitely be too much for my tractor.

I wanted to avoid the China built units, because I like to avoid China when I can, and I wanted to ensure parts availability down the road. The Ironcrafts are made in Italy by Cosmo, but the price is much more economical than a the high-end Italian Del Morino mowers. So far I am happy with my decision. Might be worth considering if you have a dealer near you.

 

[leonz]

I have been talking to Aaron Pierce for a few days now.

"Keith" (mentioned at the top of this thread) is no longer with Betstco.

I will try some more suggestions from Aaron tomorrow, but he might have to send me a new PTO shaft.

Would there be any damage if I removed the bearing and pulley so that I can wrap shorter belts around it and then reattach the pulley?

It is too difficult to install a 39" belt, even with a flat screwdriver and even when the tension bolt is totally loose.

A 40" belt, which is listed in the parts manual (Napa A38), can be installed with some effort by rotating the pulley to guide the belt around it. But once it falls into the V-belt groove, it is too loose unless the tension bolt is screwed to its max, which causes the banging sound near the implement side of the PTO shaft.

Hello Three Oranges/Mitsubishi;

I want to sincerely apologize to you and all the Permanent Resident Citizens
of the Flail Mower Nations for coming back to the forum late as I have been
dealing with health issues.

To Three Oranges/Mitsubshi I sincerely believe you are dealing with the same
issues I had with the junk John Deere 44 inch snow blower I had with my
John Deere LA115 lawn Mower which cost me several hundred dollars per year
to maintain it alone

I must go into greater detail for the members thinking about investing in a
chinese made flail mower of for those that already own one.

The small John Deere snow blowers for lawn tractors are built in Canada.
As a result of this mis-step they are equipped with metric pulleys and V belts.
Very, Very, Very expensive V belts that are only available from the John Deere
dealer for these very expensive to own John Deere snow blowers to the tune of
$300.00+- per year. Fixing this issue would require either machining the V belt
pulleys to match SAE B V belts or replacing the metric pulleys with SAE Ag pulleys.


The reason you are having this much trouble is because of the metric pulley size
and the lack of a spring tensioned V belt snubber pulley.

I am genuinely sorry to see you going through this.

 

[leonz]

Greetings Flail Mower Nation,

811 pages. Whew! I admit I sorta skipped through a lot if the earlier stuff, but it is amazing to see how much pricing has increased in 18 years.

Seeking advice on my first flail mower purchase:

We bought a place in VT with 28 acres of mixed pastureland and woods. Now that I'm here full time, I plan to reclaim some of the old orchard land and clean up the logging trails running through the woods. I also have a pond that would benefit from a ditch/bank mower to clean up the banks. Weed whacking it by hand truly sucks.

From all the advice and experience I've read here, It's clear a ditch/bank mower is the ticket. I can keep fence rows and trails clear with a vertical pass and be able to use the offset to catch the pond and stream banks.

I have a Mahindra 2665 that is 65HP, 50 at the PTO, with a cat II TPH. With the front loader and filled tires, it is somewhere north of 7500lbs.

I've been gumming by with a 6 ft RC, but it is difficult with all the trees interfering with the cab along the edges. It also sucks trying to reclaim areas that have been taken over by brush and saplings.

So, I'm convinced a ditch/bank mower with hammers is the solution. I can swap out for Y blades once things get groomed up a bit.

I'm leery of going smaller than 70" as it takes a lot of time as it is mowing everything (including the Neighbor's 7 Acres) but also concerned about the weight of the larger mowers.

Does anyone have any real world experience with 70-78" mowers on a tractor my size? (@LouNY , you're a bit bigger than mine). I'm worried about stability when offset with the heavier 1500-1800 lb units.

Any specific brands to avoid?

Also, I see some brands have float controller options. Could someone explain to my 5th grade brain how those function and if I need one?

Hoping to pull the trigger this month or next and get cracking this season.

The only two implement brands I would be willing to recommend to
you without blinking an eye are Del Morino and Maschio.
I would only want you to use a 60 inch flail shredder, no wider

Owning and operating a boom mounted vineyard crop shredder involves
operating an implement with no over center control valve to stabilize the
load on the three point hitch and the boom.

In simpler terms imagine holding a 20 foot long 2" by 12" flat at chest height
with your elbows resting on the plank with a 5 gallon pail of gear oil at the very
end and keeping it there.

The flail shredder mower is the object at the end of the lever.

You need to maintain stability to maintain the center of gravity/center line which is the
axle height of your mule, if you could use smaller tires and wheels all the better
as you would lower the center of gravity of your mule increasing your stability ON FLAT LAND.

Mowing pond edges is fine but a waste of time because it weakens the root structure of the
weeds holding the bank. If you want to mow more often have the pond banks cut to below
15 degrees in slope as the rise and run will be safer.

You should have wheel weights on the rear left wheel and if possible the front left wheel and
suitcase weights on the front of the tractor if the loader can be removed.

 

[Fallon]

I recently purchased a Ironcraft FRF-165 (165 cm / 65”).

I’m running the mower behind a Kubota L5740 with filled rear tires and max wheel weights and FEL. Our tractors should be along the same weight.

I think it handles the mower well, and is pretty stable. (Albeit I haven’t run it on any extreme slopes).

For next size up in the 78” class, the weight of the mower basically doubles. Given the weight increase and having more offset I think the 78” would definitely be too much for my tractor.

I wanted to avoid the China built units, because I like to avoid China when I can, and I wanted to ensure parts availability down the road. The Ironcrafts are made in Italy by Cosmo, but the price is much more economical than a the high-end Italian Del Morino mowers. So far I am happy with my decision. Might be worth considering if you have a dealer near you.

I'm running a Peruzzo Super Bull 2200 (7.5') on a L4060, same frame as this Kubota, only a few less HP. It's a bit big for my machine at 1,500lbs, but has been working good for 5ish years or so. It's an adjustable offset mower, not a ditch bank mower. There is now way I could offset it more than the 2-3' it sticks past my right tire. As it is I rarely lift it off the ground with it fully offset. A ditch bank mower will trail your machine even further back allowing for more leverage.

Don't go to wide or heavy. There is tremendous twisting torque on the 3pt with things offset. Your likely to run into stability or 3pt breakage issues.

 

[OldTrix]

Thanks all for the advice and recommendations. My mule is a gear drive, so there is a dearth of readily available hydraulic fluid available for any front mount considerations.

I've been looking around for any dealers of the Italian brands round here, and while some are listed on the mfg's site, those dealers have no mention of the brands in their own product listings. Some phone calls are in order.

I see some units are 800-1000 lbs while others of the same width list at 1400-1800 lbs. I've been targeting something around 1000 lbs, given the leverage it will have. Are these lighter units built so cheaply that they'll break sooner than later? Given I have a cat II hitch, I feel all right about that weight hanging out a bit without breaking anything on the tractor. (it's rated at 3500 lbs)

All of my bank work is from a flat surface, so I'm not too worried about that, provided I stay on that flat area.

It sounds like I'm narrowed in on the 60-71" width territory.

I've noticed the slotted mounts, hence my float question. Since the unit is supposed to ride on the rollers, it sounds like that is an unnecessary option.

I was looking at the Ironcraft, and was amazed the weight doubles between the 63 and 71" units. (703 to 1565lbs.) Seems odd for an incremental increase in size.

 

[OldTrix]

What are the opinions on Bestco? They have a 73" that is under 1000 lbs. (oddly, the 71" next to it is over 1500 lbs. ) where does all that weight go?

@leonz , I realize you recommended a smaller unit, but this one has similar weight to the ones your suggested.

@

 

[leonz]

The added weight is:
the heavier three point hitch,
longer hydraulic cylinders,
heavier boom steel weldments,
wider flail mower rotor,
more knives or hammers,
more knife/hammer mounts
more mounting bolts and nuts,
wider rear roller,
wider flail mower shroud.

 

[LouNY]

What are the opinions on Bestco? They have a 73" that is under 1000 lbs. (oddly, the 71" next to it is over 1500 lbs. ) where does all that weight go?

@leonz , I realize you recommended a smaller unit, but this one has similar weight to the ones your suggested.
View attachment 2796560
@

The light one;
Blade Type: The VL-AGL series uses standard hammer blade. Each hammer blade weighs 14 oz made of cast steel (cast steel is much more durable than cast iron). Use the hammer blades for clearing saplings (2″ diameter or less) and for grasses.
Number of Blades: The VL-AGL C185 uses 32 hammer blades.

The heavy one;
AGFN takes our AGF mower and adds an openable rear deck for faster mowing when you do not need fine mulching (it is also nice for changing blades) a holder for your hoses when not attached and a floating right side 3-point connection to allow the mower greater flex when following the contours of the ground. AGFN verge flail muchers are super heavy duty mowers designed for Cat-II tractors. They feature very heavy 43 ounce cutting blades that can chop heavy brush including grasses, debris, sticks, vines, branches and other wooded materials up to 4” in Diameter.
Only 16 blades "hammers" but much heavier.

Also the lighter one is rated for up to 2 inch brush,
the heavier unit is rated for up to 4 inch.

 

[OldTrix]

so, a 15 lb difference in hammer weight totals, 5/16" vs. 1/4" walls, etc. larger rotor. Just incremental adds throughout. Amazing it adds up to that much difference.