Flail Mower Let's talk flail mowers

[JWR]

Not that this matters in your discussion, but my supposedly 81 HP MF2660 with 70 at the PTO actually measured 90 hp at the PTO on the dynamometer at the dealer right before delivery. If you read the specs on the Perkins engine in the 3 different HP models (81, 91, 97), bore, stroke, etc. there is no difference, just rated HP. So they may be playing with injection control chips, computer settings, who knows. Anyway some of the "old rules" we all thought we knew do not necessarily apply anymore.

 

[TheFarmerInAdell]

There's a lot of info there, and I can't say I understand it all. Double edged side slicers?!?!

What would you say is the minimum PTO HP needed for an 8 foot mower in the conditions I described?

Side slicers are a pair of blades that when mounted together represent an upside down "Y". There are variants of the side slicers including scoops and airplane wings. The other option is hammer blades. These are large forged or cast chunks of steel.

Side slicers seem to use less HP than the hammer blades. I have an 88" Alamo on the back of my 57hp machine (see note below) and it doesn't seem to notice the difference between tall and short grass. I usually go slow in the tall grass just to make sure I get a decent cut. The other factor that has a role in HP consumption is whether it's forward or reverse rotating. Forward (same as tire rotation) seems to use less HP as it is spitting out the cuttings as they're being cut. Reverse seems to use more HP as the blades will mulch the grass before it gets left behind, cutting it multiple times.

On the note of HP ratings, my MF 2706e is rated 57HP at the engine, 46HP at the PTO. I had to take it in for warranty work and they did a test on the dynamometer and it is actually 52HP at the PTO. This is a hydrostatic model. I'm guessing the PTO HP rating is with a load on the driveline, not stationary.

If you're going with a larger mower you may have to go slow if you bog down. I would recommend an Alamo because parts are very readily available. SHD88 seems to be the most popular model for the highway crews, at least in this area. Be sure to get a course cut model if you are just mowing to knock it down occasionally. The Ford 917 is also a good unit, but parts are not as readily available (had to replace my roller, but couldn't get one anywhere...). The JD I do not have experience with, but from the flailmaster catalog it seems to be along the lines of the Ford units. Flailmaster.com has everything for an Alamo that you could ever need, minus the main housing. If they offered the housing you could build a mower entirely out of parts from them.

Keep in mind when looking at used units that you may need to replace all the blades and mounting hardware and depending on the mower that can come in at about $300 or so. Also, check the bearings as those are not cheap. Alamo units are very expensive when new, but used you should be able to get one in rough but useable shape for about a grand (needing blades and possibly bearings). In good condition expect to pay upwards of $2500. They are definitely worth it as they are very heavy built units (the SHD88 is about 1,000lbs) and you can get all the parts you need to keep them running for the rest of your life.

 

[thoner7]

Side slicers are a pair of blades that when mounted together represent an upside down "Y". There are variants of the side slicers including scoops and airplane wings. The other option is hammer blades. These are large forged or cast chunks of steel.

Side slicers seem to use less HP than the hammer blades. I have an 88" Alamo on the back of my 57hp machine (see note below) and it doesn't seem to notice the difference between tall and short grass. I usually go slow in the tall grass just to make sure I get a decent cut. The other factor that has a role in HP consumption is whether it's forward or reverse rotating. Forward (same as tire rotation) seems to use less HP as it is spitting out the cuttings as they're being cut. Reverse seems to use more HP as the blades will mulch the grass before it gets left behind, cutting it multiple times.

On the note of HP ratings, my MF 2706e is rated 57HP at the engine, 46HP at the PTO. I had to take it in for warranty work and they did a test on the dynamometer and it is actually 52HP at the PTO. This is a hydrostatic model. I'm guessing the PTO HP rating is with a load on the driveline, not stationary.

If you're going with a larger mower you may have to go slow if you bog down. I would recommend an Alamo because parts are very readily available. SHD88 seems to be the most popular model for the highway crews, at least in this area. Be sure to get a course cut model if you are just mowing to knock it down occasionally. The Ford 917 is also a good unit, but parts are not as readily available (had to replace my roller, but couldn't get one anywhere...). The JD I do not have experience with, but from the flailmaster catalog it seems to be along the lines of the Ford units. Flailmaster.com has everything for an Alamo that you could ever need, minus the main housing. If they offered the housing you could build a mower entirely out of parts from them.

Keep in mind when looking at used units that you may need to replace all the blades and mounting hardware and depending on the mower that can come in at about $300 or so. Also, check the bearings as those are not cheap. Alamo units are very expensive when new, but used you should be able to get one in rough but useable shape for about a grand (needing blades and possibly bearings). In good condition expect to pay upwards of $2500. They are definitely worth it as they are very heavy built units (the SHD88 is about 1,000lbs) and you can get all the parts you need to keep them running for the rest of your life.

I've found a few Ford units around. I figured parts could be had through New Holland. Maybe that's not the case?

Other than bearings what parts might be hard to find? How hard is it to inspect the bearings ?

 

[TheFarmerInAdell]

Which Ford models? 907 and 917 you can get bearings, blades, and minor parts from Flailmaster, but if you need any major parts (roller or rotor) you're kind of out of luck. I've tried to get a roller for my 917 (it was missing upon purchase) and I can't remember if it was way to expensive or just unavailable. 918 I'd imagine would still have support through New Holland as I believe that is the current model. 917 and 907 are forward rotating, I believe 918 is reverse rotating. 917 is more desirable over the 907 in my opinion (heavier duty). If you're looking at a 918 the 918H would be preferable over the 918L in your situation. 917 can be changed from course cut to fine cut to something in-between (airplane wings). Again 907 is probably similar. 918 is one or the other, not interchangeable.

If you are looking at a 917 check that the rail on the rotor that the blades mount to isn't bent or torn up. I think the 907 has a similar mount. The 918 has ears on the rotor to mount the blades.

To check bearings make sure the rotor and roller spin freely and they don't move in a direction they're not supposed to move. Also check gearbox play. There should be a little play in the gears, but any more and it's an indication of an issue. Gearbox failure is rare in flail mowers. Also check belts. They're cheap, but check them anyway. If the body is dented up it's fine, if it has holes in it you'll want to patch them if they're of any decent size. If you can get the seller to spin it up on a tractor it would be good to see the vibration. There should be little or no vibration. A missing blade will cause vibration, but you want to be watching for a bent rotor that would make the unit worthless. A replacement rotor would likely cost as much as the mower.

 

[thoner7]

Which Ford models? 907 and 917 you can get bearings, blades, and minor parts from Flailmaster, but if you need any major parts (roller or rotor) you're kind of out of luck. I've tried to get a roller for my 917 (it was missing upon purchase) and I can't remember if it was way to expensive or just unavailable. 918 I'd imagine would still have support through New Holland as I believe that is the current model. 917 and 907 are forward rotating, I believe 918 is reverse rotating. 917 is more desirable over the 907 in my opinion (heavier duty). If you're looking at a 918 the 918H would be preferable over the 918L in your situation. 917 can be changed from course cut to fine cut to something in-between (airplane wings). Again 907 is probably similar. 918 is one or the other, not interchangeable.

If you are looking at a 917 check that the rail on the rotor that the blades mount to isn't bent or torn up. I think the 907 has a similar mount. The 918 has ears on the rotor to mount the blades.

To check bearings make sure the rotor and roller spin freely and they don't move in a direction they're not supposed to move. Also check gearbox play. There should be a little play in the gears, but any more and it's an indication of an issue. Gearbox failure is rare in flail mowers. Also check belts. They're cheap, but check them anyway. If the body is dented up it's fine, if it has holes in it you'll want to patch them if they're of any decent size. If you can get the seller to spin it up on a tractor it would be good to see the vibration. There should be little or no vibration. A missing blade will cause vibration, but you want to be watching for a bent rotor that would make the unit worthless. A replacement rotor would likely cost as much as the mower.

This is the only one even remotely near me. It looks really rough though.
8’ Flail Mower - farm & garden - by owner - sale

The others are on tractor house in OH.

 

[TheFarmerInAdell]

Ouch... That one is ROUGH. I would avoid it. Seeing that the housing is disappearing it will not last much longer.

Patients is needed in finding a used flail mower.

 

[leonz]

You can tell that one was driven over a lot of rocks and the flail mower rotor shroud is paper thin form impact damage.


find a used JD25A or 290 on tractorhouse and have them ship it to you.

 

[AllByteNoBark]

Not sure where you are but here is one. I would look at it myself but currently have to many other irons in the fire.
Flail Mower - farm & garden - by owner - sale

 

[thoner7]

Ouch... That one is ROUGH. I would avoid it. Seeing that the housing is disappearing it will not last much longer.

Patients is needed in finding a used flail mower.

Yea I wasn't going near it lol.

These are the few I've seen online.

https://www.tractorhouse.com/listings/farm-equipment/for-sale/17787127/ford-917

https://www.tractorhouse.com/listings/farm-equipment/for-sale/33799477/ford-917

https://www.tractorhouse.com/listings/farm-equipment/for-sale/31250067/mott-88

 

[thoner7]

What's shipping cost??

 

[leonz]

Hello thoner7,

The shipping cost is going to depend on the weight of the flail mower and
if the freight company travels in your immediate area and if they can get
a local load for the return trip to the terminal.

Like most it will probably ship FOB destination if they do not have a local pickup.
Find a mower you like and get a freight quote for a drop deck load delivered to
your home address through the tractor house freight services and go from there.

I would also suggest that you contact every JD dealer within 150 mile radius of
your location as they have a locator system for everything they sell as they will all
know of a local dispersal auction as well.

 

[Okie Again]

I got my Brush hog going and took down most of what needed to come down last weekend. I am thinking I might be better off buying used Flail mower than new. Here is a Ford 917L close to me for $1100 does this seem overpriced for an older unit.

Facebook Marketplace: 5 Foot Ford Flail Mower - Garden Items - Ponca City, Oklahoma

 

[JWR]

What's shipping cost??

Thoner -- have no idea where you are so can't be very specific on recommended sources. Many areas in the East at least have auctions conducted by pretty well organized auction companies. Eastern PA seems rich with them. Partly because flail mowers are so common with the road people there are a LOT of these old machines around. If you luck out with a machine that interests you within a 100 or 150 miles take a pickup truck ride and go haul it yourself. That gives you a chance to see it first hand before you actually buy it too. Many of the auction houses have their own lots of equipment that sit between auction dates. Call and see what they have onhand. McGrew Auctions in Seven valleys PA is of that nature.

The other guy's suggestion of "check ever Deere dealer in a 150 mile radius" is probably a good idea too. Alamo is one of the most common brands having inherited the Mott designs, etc. who really started the market in flails. Look up Alamo and find their dealers. Also try Craig's list. I've seen some on Craig's list in the past.

 

[Fallon]

There have been about a dozen flails on Craigslist in the state of Colorado in the past 3-4 years. Most were crop choppers too. So depending on where you are, they've super uncommon. I've never seen one at a dealer & most dont know about them.

I paid $100 for my 917, but it was beat to ****. Made for a good learning project & gave me several years of good service before it got retired. $600 in total for the flail, new PTO shaft, new flails, belts & rotor bearing replacement. Not to mention a pile of welding on a cracked bent hood. I still keep it as a spare for the new Peruzzo or when I have to mow a trashy rocky field. Much less concern about destroying the $100 mower vs the $7k one.

And the mounting bar on the rotor isn't as crooked as it looks. It's actually a lot worse. It's not smooth, but it surprisingly not bad for as beat as it is.View attachment 619106

 

[TheFarmerInAdell]

I got my Brush hog going and took down most of what needed to come down last weekend. I am thinking I might be better off buying used Flail mower than new. Here is a Ford 917L close to me for $1100 does this seem overpriced for an older unit.

Facebook Marketplace: 5 Foot Ford Flail Mower - Garden Items - Ponca City, Oklahoma

For Ford, anything with an "L" at the end means "light duty". If you plan on mowing your lawn or grass that isn't very long it would be okay. That price is a little high for the "L" in a 5 foot version. It would need to have all new belts, flails, and mounts along with good bearings and a slip clutch PTO shaft for it to be worth that in my opinion. If it was the standard 917 it would be worth that with good (but not necessarily new) parts. Remember, it will cost about $300 for flails on the course cut and probably more on the fine cut models.

 

[Okie Again]

For Ford, anything with an "L" at the end means "light duty". If you plan on mowing your lawn or grass that isn't very long it would be okay. That price is a little high for the "L" in a 5 foot version. It would need to have all new belts, flails, and mounts along with good bearings and a slip clutch PTO shaft for it to be worth that in my opinion. If it was the standard 917 it would be worth that with good (but not necessarily new) parts. Remember, it will cost about $300 for flails on the course cut and probably more on the fine cut models.

Ok thanks I don't want to get into too big of a hurry. Just learning about this stuff

 

[smilinjak]

I have a request for photo information on Mott 60 fine cut mower. I need close ups of the belt guard. Replacements are no longer available, not from Flail Master anyway. Most of mine is broken off. There is evidence of some mounting brackets but no brackets or cover. Mows great after replacing roller bearings, rotor bearings, missing knives and their mounting brackets.
Thanks for any help. By the way I have the rectangular gear box that I modified with a vent and oil filler hole.

 

[lostcreekranch]

I have a request for photo information on Mott 60 fine cut mower. I need close ups of the belt guard. Replacements are no longer available, not from Flail Master anyway. Most of mine is broken off. There is evidence of some mounting brackets but no brackets or cover. Mows great after replacing roller bearings, rotor bearings, missing knives and their mounting brackets.
Thanks for any help. By the way I have the rectangular gear box that I modified with a vent and oil filler hole.

Might be a source?

Alamo/Mott Belts & Guards – Montage Enterprises

 

[smilinjak]

Might be a source?

Alamo/Mott Belts & Guards Montage Enterprises

Thanks for the link, I will check it out

 

[JWR]

I've got a Caroni TM1900 with a heat issue. After using it for about 30 minutes the cover over the belts is so hot I can't keep my hand on it. I felt along the driveshaft cover and the gear box and could tell the heat was being generated from the belt drive end of the shaft. Pulled the cover and found the belts were trashed. I replaced the belts with new kevlar ones and the heat persists. When the belts were off I turned all of the moving parts on that end to see if I could feel or hear a bad bearing but everything felt fine. When I checked the gear oil the level was fine but it had an odd color, kind of a creamy color, not grey which would suggest water. I replaced the gear oil anyways but still have the heat issue.

Any ideas?

I had a chance to run my Alamo SHD88 flail mower in very heavy, tall grass and weeds which put noticeable load on the tractor. Net result: it was the ideal tool for the job. Remembering your post, I went around the machine and felt it for hot surfaces as soon as I finished mowing. Nothing was hot near or around the belt shroud or in that area at all. Mine is a plain normal v-belt with a strong off-the shelf tension spring.