Flail Mower Let's talk flail mowers

[vlcakc]

Thanks for the replies! The New Holland 918H I sold last Fall had an access door on the back side, but I never opened it except to service the blades. Don't know that it was even made to open during use, the manual didn't mention that mode that I remember. I mowed some 4-5' high Johnson grass with it on several occasions without problems with the TC45D. I would like the option to be able to mulch on a second pass though. Since my farm ground is all leased out I doubt that I'll be mowing any corn stalks or the like. The dealer is going to get pricing for some brands other than Landpride, but hasn't replied yet. Doubt that I'll be able to inspect the mowers ahead of ordering as none of the dealers near here stock any. Vic

 

[vlcakc]

Dealer called this morning with pricing on a Sovema FM-2 80" flail mower. Wow! $8300! Not sure why this unit is priced so much higher than others. From the diagrams I was able to pull up on the internet, it appears to have a "trash door", but for that price I'll pass. I'm finding a lot of mis-information coming from the dealers, probably as a result of lack of experience with flails. Guess I'll have to rely on the manufacturer's internet info and feedback for TBN. Thanks, Vic

 

[IslandTractor]

Dealers are not used to selling flail mowers to consumers in the USA. Their market has been highway departments and businesses. Some of the US made flails are also pretty heavy duty compared to European flails. I'd say that currently the standard for consumer grade "medium duty" flails are the Italian mowers. The Chinese seem to be doing a good job of copying the Italians so their share of the market will certainly increase. US made flails are just too pricey for any homeowner or someone who is not billing for use of the implement.

 

[mejazz]

This thread has an amazing amount of information about all things flail (mowers). Took some time to work through all the pages but it was worth the effort.
I don't own a flail mower yet, but it's on the radar. Naturally, I have questions. Do Caroni machines have a warranty? And, what size fm for my Kubota L3710 with R4's (loaded rears)? FM will be used in place of an aging garden tractor on lawns around the house, and for keeping the alders and other brush at bay uptacamp.
This is my first post, hope I'm doing it right.

 

[IslandTractor]

This thread has an amazing amount of information about all things flail (mowers). Took some time to work through all the pages but it was worth the effort.
I don't own a flail mower yet, but it's on the radar. Naturally, I have questions. Do Caroni machines have a warranty? And, what size fm for my Kubota L3710 with R4's (loaded rears)? FM will be used in place of an aging garden tractor on lawns around the house, and for keeping the alders and other brush at bay uptacamp.
This is my first post, hope I'm doing it right.

There must be a warranty but frankly I don't recall anyone on TBN ever using it. The most common failure is the factory belts. $20 or so for a new set of Gates Kevlar belts fixes that.

The L3710 would use the Caroni TM1900. It will run it with power to spare.

 

[mejazz]

Thank you for the response.

 

[JimCan]

I been tryig to find a happy place with my Caroni flail. With the standard JB top link the upper mast of the mower was canted forward ~10-20deg. A couple of days ago I bought an XL top link at the tractor store ($39). Here's what it looks like now...

Background: My front pasture is ~5ac and 'fairly' flat with no rocks, stumps or other obsticles. I had been cutting it with a 5' brutish bush hog or 72" finish mower by Bush Hog. It gets too thick and too long for the finish mower and the old bush hog simply clubbed stuff to death and made massive wadds of dense matting that nothing grew thru. It appeared I needed to either bail or burn this at the end of the summer - neither was attractive. I sold these mowers; they paid half the flail's bill.

I'm still struggling to find the perfect combination.... With the mower front-to-back level I felt I was getting an imperfect cut because if I raised the mower for ground clearance it was like trying to level an uneven roadway with a fixed back blade ..lotsa Up/Dn. If I rode closer to the ground the skids were cutting furrows... I thought the ideal was if the mower rested on the rear roller so that is why I got this XL top link.

In the one hour test, it does do better. The skids are less of an issue. (I may remove them to see that result...) I am still getting skips on tallish, thin grasses. I am still getting some points where the mower seems to suffer from indigestion. I am also trying to drive in 2-low (geared tractor). I really do not want to stay out all day in 1-low. My tach needs the cable replaced so I am driving by ear. Do these flails need a lot of spin? I gather it's spin and forward movement that needs to be happy together, but I don't seem to know where that is yet.

Jim

 

[IslandTractor]

Jim, a couple of thoughts: First, you still have one notch to go to fully raise your skids. I hate skids so mine are all the way up. Second, that toplink does look a bit long. The mower shouldn't need to tilt backwards as much. Third, I always have the rear roller in contact with the ground unless in very thick brush that I am backing into and even then I lower it before I drive forwards again. I cannot think of any other reason to have the rear roller off the ground while mowing.

I'd experiment with different holes on the tractor for the top link. Try it in the slot (that's where I keep mine). I have a hydraulic top link so can and do adjust it easily but you should still be able to get the right setting with the standard one. I cannot help but think that topping lift is just too long as you have it in the photo.

I have mine set so my skids never touch the ground, the rear roller is always in contact with turf and I fiddle with the topping lift to pivot the mower to get the cut height right. I use the 3pt mostly in the full down position but in thick grass sometimes have it slightly higher.

Others setup their mowers differently. I am mostly in fields knocking down annual growth and brush, not trying to maintain a perfect lawn. Leonz may have some suggestions too.

 

[Dan in MN]

I have an unrelated related question....

I'm still looking for a replacement tractor to run the 88" flail I picked up a while ago. I currently mow my 1-1/3 acre lawn with a 60" zero turn that works great. I've been looking for a tractor with a loader this time so I can do more with it, one of the problems is most of the older tractors are too heavy to use much on my yard and also R1 ag tires to tear things up. I found a 40hp Massey Ferguson 1540 with R4 tires and my big debate is whether I could run a rear finish mower on it to do my yard and then use the flail for outlots that I mow. Anybody use an RFM for actual yard? Will it cut similar to a regular mower or never quite as good? The tractor weighs 3000lbs without the loader and I'm a bit worried about compacting the soil and/or tree roots. Also have some ditches that concern me as I would go 72" to get outside of the tires and even my 60" zt is a little wide for the curve of the ditch. So, definately would be compromised for mowing the yard but then I could have one machine to do it all, and one light enough I could run it all over the yard for other things.. Being able to sell my zt and snowblower allows me to justify looking at this much nicer tractor (compared to the other old ones I'm looking at), but only if I can use it for all.. Anybody running an rfm on nice finished lawn, not just open areas..?

 

[Steave]

I been tryig to find a happy place with my Caroni flail. With the standard JB top link the upper mast of the mower was canted forward ~10-20deg. A couple of days ago I bought an XL top link at the tractor store ($39). Here's what it looks like now...

If I may offer my take on adjusting your flail mower or most any kind of implement. First I don't want to sound as if I'm disputing any suggestions already given you because I've received a lot of good information from a lot of folks much smarter than I. So here goes:

1. With the mower resting on the rear roller and the 3 pt lift arms connected take your top link off the mower side.

2. Raise your 3 pt lift slowly until you have it looking level from the side.

3. Put your top link in the slotted hole and adjust it until it's half way of the slot.

4. The position your 3 pt lift arms are in will be the position you should cut with the mower.


If your cutting height is not what you want, adjust the rear roller height either up or down then you'll need to adjust your 3 pt lift arms a bit so the mower looks level again and you may have to adjust the top link so it rides in the middle of the slot again.

Your 3 pt lift arms will hold the front of the mower while it rests on the roller. The rear roller should always be on the ground when cutting. The top link will come into play when you need to lift your mower. Having the top link in the middle of the slot will allow your mower to pivot a few inches and follow the terrain. It will only pivot a few inches then catch itself after it runs out of slack in the slot. Most of the time that's all that's needed to get a good cut.

 

[IslandTractor]

I have an unrelated related question....

I'm still looking for a replacement tractor to run the 88" flail I picked up a while ago. I currently mow my 1-1/3 acre lawn with a 60" zero turn that works great. I've been looking for a tractor with a loader this time so I can do more with it, one of the problems is most of the older tractors are too heavy to use much on my yard and also R1 ag tires to tear things up. I found a 40hp Massey Ferguson 1540 with R4 tires and my big debate is whether I could run a rear finish mower on it to do my yard and then use the flail for outlots that I mow. Anybody use an RFM for actual yard? Will it cut similar to a regular mower or never quite as good? The tractor weighs 3000lbs without the loader and I'm a bit worried about compacting the soil and/or tree roots. Also have some ditches that concern me as I would go 72" to get outside of the tires and even my 60" zt is a little wide for the curve of the ditch. So, definately would be compromised for mowing the yard but then I could have one machine to do it all, and one light enough I could run it all over the yard for other things.. Being able to sell my zt and snowblower allows me to justify looking at this much nicer tractor (compared to the other old ones I'm looking at), but only if I can use it for all.. Anybody running an rfm on nice finished lawn, not just open areas..?

Flails are certainly used on yards, golf courses, athletic fields etc. Two main issues: type of rotor/knives and travel speed. Caroni for example makes a "rough cut" version of the 75" mower that has about 56 knives and a finish cut version that has something close to double that number. I have found however that even using the rough cut flail, if I want to cut close and fine, I can do that simply by slowing down. I can take brush down to dirt if I want just by adjusting cut height and moving slowly. I have cut my lawn with the Caroni a few times but I found it very difficult to maneuver my tractor and wide mower under trees and around obstacles etc. The cut itself was not an issue.

 

[IslandTractor]

I been tryig to find a happy place with my Caroni flail. With the standard JB top link the upper mast of the mower was canted forward ~10-20deg. A couple of days ago I bought an XL top link at the tractor store ($39). Here's what it looks like now...

If I may offer my take on adjusting your flail mower or most any kind of implement. First I don't want to sound as if I'm disputing any suggestions already given you because I've received a lot of good information from a lot of folks much smarter than I. So here goes:

1. With the mower resting on the rear roller and the 3 pt lift arms connected take your top link off the mower side.

2. Raise your 3 pt lift slowly until you have it looking level from the side.

3. Put your top link in the slotted hole and adjust it until it's half way of the slot.

4. The position your 3 pt lift arms are in will be the position you should cut with the mower.


If your cutting height is not what you want, adjust the rear roller height either up or down then you'll need to adjust your 3 pt lift arms a bit so the mower looks level again and you may have to adjust the top link so it rides in the middle of the slot again.

Your 3 pt lift arms will hold the front of the mower while it rests on the roller. The rear roller should always be on the ground when cutting. The top link will come into play when you need to lift your mower. Having the top link in the middle of the slot will allow your mower to pivot a few inches and follow the terrain. It will only pivot a few inches then catch itself after it runs out of slack in the slot. Most of the time that's all that's needed to get a good cut.

Excellent description of how to do it.

 

[leonz]

Adding to Island Tractors and Steaves comments;

As I do not have my copies of the caroni manuals in front of me:

I believe you can extend the lower mounting arms one or two holes forward
to level the flail mower to solve this problem.

Happy mowing.

 

[leonz]

I have an unrelated related question....

I'm still looking for a replacement tractor to run the 88" flail I picked up a while ago. I currently mow my 1-1/3 acre lawn with a 60" zero turn that works great. I've been looking for a tractor with a loader this time so I can do more with it, one of the problems is most of the older tractors are too heavy to use much on my yard and also R1 ag tires to tear things up. I found a 40hp Massey Ferguson 1540 with R4 tires and my big debate is whether I could run a rear finish mower on it to do my yard and then use the flail for outlots that I mow. Anybody use an RFM for actual yard? Will it cut similar to a regular mower or never quite as good? The tractor weighs 3000lbs without the loader and I'm a bit worried about compacting the soil and/or tree roots. Also have some ditches that concern me as I would go 72" to get outside of the tires and even my 60" zt is a little wide for the curve of the ditch. So, definately would be compromised for mowing the yard but then I could have one machine to do it all, and one light enough I could run it all over the yard for other things.. Being able to sell my zt and snowblower allows me to justify looking at this much nicer tractor (compared to the other old ones I'm looking at), but only if I can use it for all.. Anybody running an rfm on nice finished lawn, not just open areas..?

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RFM are used a lot for good sod and depending on the condition of the turf will provide a good cut. we used a towed motorized EZrake twin spindle side discharge mower that discharged to the both the left and right and we used it for lawn and field mowing.

In your situation, and as an "example" I think you could use a JD series 2 mule with loaded turf tires or diamond turf tires and use the flail mower for both the home place and the mowing jobs.

 

[IslandTractor]

Adding to Island Tractors and Steaves comments;

As I do not have my copies of the caroni manuals in front of me:

I believe you can extend the lower mounting arms one or two holes forward
to level the flail mower to solve this problem.

Happy mowing.

I've looked at my Caroni manual. Pretty useless manual as far as operation goes. No guidance at all in fact.

The 3PT tractor arms attach to "intermediate" arms (about 1/2" plate 3x8" or so) that are in turn pinned to the mower in slots. Each has two pins attaching it to the mower and only two pin holes in the slot so there is only one way to attach those intermediate arms. No adjustment is possible forwards/backwards. You can move the whole mower sideways by using the extra set of slots but that only affects offset.

I'm still thinking the main issue for JimCan is that the topping lift is too long. If that were shorter and the 3PT lowered a bit I think the mower would be riding on the rear roller and roughly in plane with the ground.

 

[JimCan]

IT and Steave. I appreciate the reply. I shudda taken the pic with the mower resting on the ground... None the less, I previously ran the unit 'level' ...with a bubble level to be sure. The top mast was leaning waay forward and the skids were level. But, the skids were cutting or riding the ground too hard and the roller did not seem to be making contact. I needed elevation but I cannot get it by lowering the roller; it is fixed. I figured I 'rock it back' onto the roller by raising the front - hense, the new, longer top-link. I don't need a 3" lawn cut for the pasture, just need to supress the weeds.

My next test is to pull the skids forcing the roller into full contact, then check the cutting height and vary the lenght of the top-link to see what I get. (I'd almost like to see what I get without the top-link attached when the unit is totally fully, self-adjusting/trailing the tractor...) Thanks again. Jim

 

[Fallon]

IT and Steave. I appreciate the reply. I shudda taken the pic with the mower resting on the ground... None the less, I previously ran the unit 'level' ...with a bubble level to be sure. The top mast was leaning waay forward and the skids were level. But, the skids were cutting or riding the ground too hard and the roller did not seem to be making contact. I needed elevation but I cannot get it by lowering the roller; it is fixed. I figured I 'rock it back' onto the roller by raising the front - hense, the new, longer top-link. I don't need a 3" lawn cut for the pasture, just need to supress the weeds.

My next test is to pull the skids forcing the roller into full contact, then check the cutting height and vary the lenght of the top-link to see what I get. (I'd almost like to see what I get without the top-link attached when the unit is totally fully, self-adjusting/trailing the tractor...) Thanks again. Jim

Skids are there to prevent the rotor & to some lesser degree the knives from hitting the ground. They should only ever hit the ground in rare circumstances. Generally you want to have the skids raised all or at least most of the way up. If the skids were raised all the way up & still digging, ya, definately level issues to sort things out with the 3pt & roller height adjustments.

My ancient Ford 917 flail has a non-adjustable roller & skids (welded in place years or decades before I acquired it). So I'm stuck with 3pt height & toplink length to sort out cut height. On my L3200 I just left the hydraulic toplink in float, but no hydraulic toplink on the L4060 for a few more months. The 917 floats with some floating lift links rather than with anything on the toplink.

 

[OhioCowboy]

I'm trying to rebuild the rear roller bearings on my Ford/NH 918H 73" flail mower. IMHO the roller bearing system was under engineered. I feel the bearings are not up to the pounding and weight (800#) of my flail. The bearings were destroyed in 3 years of use. (probably 18 hours a week during mowing season (April-November). No numbers on the bearing survived. About all I know is the bearing bore is 1.25". Messicks wants $125 a bearing. I remember paying about $50 at the Ford dealer about 4 years ago when I last replaced them. Anybody have an idea of a cross reference 2 roller bearing that crosses to the number ME0000411 I get from Messick and NH parts listings?

 

[DavesTractor]

I'm trying to rebuild the rear roller bearings on my Ford/NH 918H 73" flail mower. IMHO the roller bearing system was under engineered. I feel the bearings are not up to the pounding and weight (800#) of my flail. The bearings were destroyed in 3 years of use. (probably 18 hours a week during mowing season (April-November). No numbers on the bearing survived. About all I know is the bearing bore is 1.25". Messicks wants $125 a bearing. I remember paying about $50 at the Ford dealer about 4 years ago when I last replaced them. Anybody have an idea of a cross reference 2 roller bearing that crosses to the number ME0000411 I get from Messick and NH parts listings?

Maybe I am doing the math wrong, but it appears you put 2100 hours on those bearings in three years? I'd say they don't owe you anything, that is pretty good. A lot of folks put maybe 100 hours a year on a mower. For them, those bearings would last 21 years. That does not seem under-designed.

 

[leonz]

I'm trying to rebuild the rear roller bearings on my Ford/NH 918H 73" flail mower. IMHO the roller bearing system was under engineered. I feel the bearings are not up to the pounding and weight (800#) of my flail. The bearings were destroyed in 3 years of use. (probably 18 hours a week during mowing season (April-November). No numbers on the bearing survived. About all I know is the bearing bore is 1.25". Messicks wants $125 a bearing. I remember paying about $50 at the Ford dealer about 4 years ago when I last replaced them. Anybody have an idea of a cross reference 2 roller bearing that crosses to the number ME0000411 I get from Messick and NH parts listings?

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Check with flail master for bearings and then you can purchase spares when you have the roller bearings ID numbers.