Flail Mower Let's talk flail mowers

[Fallon]

My 32hp HST (25 PTO) runs my 7' old 719 surprisingly well. If you can't spin the mower at PTO speed, just slow down until you don't drop the RPMs. If you go slow you can usually be pretty underpowered & still use the mower just fine.

 

[sodamo]

Sold my old flail. Less than 2 hours on Craigslist. Priced right or maybe too low LOL

David Sent from my iPad Air using TractorByNet

 

[Kiotidriver]

Although I got delivery of my new flail a couple weeks ago, I just got it assembled:
Hydraulic Offset 78" FlailMower EFGCH+195 HD



View attachment 457132

Tomorrow I'll get some gear oil, grease it and probably a new top link.
In the AM I have a buyer coming for my old flail. Thinking a good use of the funds will be a 2nd function switch.

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Hello David,
I am very happy to see your post and hoping for more feedback when you start using your new EFGCH+195HD flail mower. Today I just placed an order for a 68 hydraulic Offset Flail EFGCH-175.
I have the same Kioti 30HST as you have, however Roger at Value Leader Implements recommended the 68 Flail considering my tractor specs. I should be receiving it early next week. Since my tractor is equipped with a backhoe, I have an Auxiliary control valve mounted at the back of the tractor. The valve is controlled by a 3-position lever A, N, B located on the right side of the seat.
My Kioti dealer advised me to connect one of the hydraulic lines to port A and the other to port B. Port A will be used to extend and B to retract the mower. However the lever should immediately be returned on N (neutral) when the mower is in the desired position. Keeping the valve selector on either A or B for an extended time will cause damage to the system due to overheated hydraulic oil (Don稚 ask how I know that!).
On your picture you show the machine resting on cinder blocks. How did you lift it? And is it necessary to do that? Can I just uncrate it on a flat surface and attach the mower to the tractor痴 3-point hitch?
I was told the hydraulic lines are not fitted with quick disconnects. When you buy some for your machine can you let us know what brand and model you used? I have not made a decision yet to purchase the 2-year extended warranty ($200) for parts, I have 30 days to do so. The machine comes with a normal 2-year warranty for (non-consumable) parts only. I am not sure what could go wrong with such a simple machine like that; their gear box is only $195, which is relatively cheap when compared to the other guys who are asking almost 1 grand for a replacement gear box! I would like to hear from some long time users of this particular 杜ade in China brand.
On another subject, my wife and I just came back from the big Island. We were staying in a beautiful house on a cliff overlooking the ocean ~ 28 miles north of Hilo on Hwy 19. We saw several whales from our windows. Also we experienced your famous KoKee (very noisy tiny frogs). While it was not the first time we visited your Island (and the others), we were very impressed how clean it was. I never saw so many flail mowers while driving around the island. I would not mind coming back, be please turn on these Volcanoes! We need some adventure!
Malaho,
Andre

 

[sodamo]

Hello David, I am very happy to see your post and hoping for more feedback when you start using your new EFGCH+195HD flail mower. Today I just placed an order for a 68 hydraulic Offset Flail EFGCH-175. I have the same Kioti 30HST as you have, however Roger at Value Leader Implements recommended the 68 Flail considering my tractor specs. I should be receiving it early next week. Since my tractor is equipped with a backhoe, I have an Auxiliary control valve mounted at the back of the tractor. The valve is controlled by a 3-position lever A, N, B located on the right side of the seat. My Kioti dealer advised me to connect one of the hydraulic lines to port A and the other to port B. Port A will be used to extend and B to retract the mower. However the lever should immediately be returned on N (neutral) when the mower is in the desired position. Keeping the valve selector on either A or B for an extended time will cause damage to the system due to overheated hydraulic oil (Don稚 ask how I know that!). On your picture you show the machine resting on cinder blocks. How did you lift it? And is it necessary to do that? Can I just uncrate it on a flat surface and attach the mower to the tractor痴 3-point hitch? I was told the hydraulic lines are not fitted with quick disconnects. When you buy some for your machine can you let us know what brand and model you used? I have not made a decision yet to purchase the 2-year extended warranty ($200) for parts, I have 30 days to do so. The machine comes with a normal 2-year warranty for (non-consumable) parts only. I am not sure what could go wrong with such a simple machine like that; their gear box is only $195, which is relatively cheap when compared to the other guys who are asking almost 1 grand for a replacement gear box! I would like to hear from some long time users of this particular 杜ade in China brand. On another subject, my wife and I just came back from the big Island. We were staying in a beautiful house on a cliff overlooking the ocean ~ 28 miles north of Hilo on Hwy 19. We saw several whales from our windows. Also we experienced your famous KoKee (very noisy tiny frogs). While it was not the first time we visited your Island (and the others), we were very impressed how clean it was. I never saw so many flail mowers while driving around the island. I would not mind coming back, be please turn on these Volcanoes! We need some adventure! Malaho, Andre

Aloha Andre,
Curious where you stayed, we are Mauka mm19, Ninole. Contact me when you come back, I give TBN guys a discount.

Your 175machine is what I just sold. A real work horse. My only problem was the bearings on rear roller did not have a zerk, eventually rusted and I replaced.Sounds like you have different hydraulics than my Kioti. Unfortunately, I never used the shift function on my 175, had it permanently positioned to cover tires.by the time I switched it to my DX35, I had managed to mangle the hydro lines. For me, it was more useful to have a hydraulic toplink. This time I'm hooking up the offset shifter and will be adding a 2nd function diverter at some point
My 195 did come with couplers. I lifted it with a chain and my FEL, minus the bucket. I placed it on the blocks for ease of assembly, several bolts went in from underneath in the front. I haven't cut with it yet, rained all day today, but did mount it and run a bit.

David Sent from my iPad Air using TractorByNet

 

[PRCWI]

Weedy, I've got an SHD88 that I run with my Oliver 550 gas and 770 diesel both are sub 50 hp and both handle the mower fine except in the heaviest weeds, you'll be fine and very happy with the match for your tractor

 

[Kiotidriver]

David,
In your preceding post, you mentioned the use of a hydraulic top link, and you aroused my curiosity. Just to position myself, I am a recent Gentleman Farmer or stated differently a city slicker who just moved to the country side without having realized how much work it is to take care of a 12-acre estate. That’s why I had to buy a tractor and a mower, and now comes the learning curve. I’m glad I found this web site where I can read very useful information from the posts of so many members. Thank you to all of you.
Now my question/comment.
Does having a hydraulic top link in conjunction with your flail mower let you adjust the angle at which the bottom of the mower rides over the ground, without having to stop the tractor and dismount, and manually extending or retracting the length of the mechanical top link to change this angle? Is this something that needs to be done often during the mowing process? My acres are not flat but have some slight elevation differences; will I have to regularly adjust the top link to adapt to the terrain topography? Or adjust the top link in such a way the bottom of the mower is parallel to a level surface, and run with that? If I was to get a hydraulic top link, my tractor will need an extra pair of hydraulic ports and a control valve, beside the ones already used for the deck offset system (or backhoe). This may be pricey to install. Is a hydraulic top link a must have, nice to have, or if you have money to burn is it just one more gadget in your collection? Should I mention a side hydraulic link? I better not!
Andre

 

[IslandTractor]

David,
In your preceding post, you mentioned the use of a hydraulic top link, and you aroused my curiosity. Just to position myself, I am a recent Gentleman Farmer or stated differently a city slicker who just moved to the country side without having realized how much work it is to take care of a 12-acre estate. That’s why I had to buy a tractor and a mower, and now comes the learning curve. I’m glad I found this web site where I can read very useful information from the posts of so many members. Thank you to all of you.
Now my question/comment.
Does having a hydraulic top link in conjunction with your flail mower let you adjust the angle at which the bottom of the mower rides over the ground, without having to stop the tractor and dismount, and manually extending or retracting the length of the mechanical top link to change this angle? Is this something that needs to be done often during the mowing process? My acres are not flat but have some slight elevation differences; will I have to regularly adjust the top link to adapt to the terrain topography? Or adjust the top link in such a way the bottom of the mower is parallel to a level surface, and run with that? If I was to get a hydraulic top link, my tractor will need an extra pair of hydraulic ports and a control valve, beside the ones already used for the deck offset system (or backhoe). This may be pricey to install. Is a hydraulic top link a must have, nice to have, or if you have money to burn is it just one more gadget in your collection? Should I mention a side hydraulic link? I better not!
Andre

Yes, you can adjust the "attack" angle with a hydraulic topping lift but it's generally not needed. While a hydraulic topping lift is very useful for implements such as a box blade or rake, it isn't critical for a flail mower. For the most part you will want to allow the mower to simply ride on the rear roller. Most flails have a slot to mount the topping lift so it is not a single point of contact and the topping lift pin can slide back or forwards as dictated by the ground.

Now while having extra rear remotes is not critical for running a flail, you will soon learn that there are multiple other uses for at least one and preferably two sets of rear remotes. Hydraulic topping lift and side links are very very helpful for box blade management when maintaining a dirt road for example. Wood splitters run off the remote. Snow blower attachments use rear remotes to control shoot direction etc. Additionally, you can actually run a grapple on your FEL by using rear remotes and avoid the expense of installing a diverter valve. Rear remotes are also where you would power a backhoe from if you ever add such an attachment.

I'd say hydraulic topping lift is in the nice to have category unless you are maintaining a road in which case it is a must have. Side link is a slightly lower priority. From my perspective, having a couple sets of rear remotes is a "must have" unless you are simply mowing with your tractor.

 

[whirly]

David,
In your preceding post, you mentioned the use of a hydraulic top link, and you aroused my curiosity. Just to position myself, I am a recent Gentleman Farmer or stated differently a city slicker who just moved to the country side without having realized how much work it is to take care of a 12-acre estate. That’s why I had to buy a tractor and a mower, and now comes the learning curve. I’m glad I found this web site where I can read very useful information from the posts of so many members. Thank you to all of you.
Now my question/comment.
Does having a hydraulic top link in conjunction with your flail mower let you adjust the angle at which the bottom of the mower rides over the ground, without having to stop the tractor and dismount, and manually extending or retracting the length of the mechanical top link to change this angle? Is this something that needs to be done often during the mowing process? My acres are not flat but have some slight elevation differences; will I have to regularly adjust the top link to adapt to the terrain topography? Or adjust the top link in such a way the bottom of the mower is parallel to a level surface, and run with that? If I was to get a hydraulic top link, my tractor will need an extra pair of hydraulic ports and a control valve, beside the ones already used for the deck offset system (or backhoe). This may be pricey to install. Is a hydraulic top link a must have, nice to have, or if you have money to burn is it just one more gadget in your collection? Should I mention a side hydraulic link? I better not!
Andre

Ditto .... nice to have but not required for flail mowing.

 

[Alien]

I don't have a hydraulic top link but I noticed when going over little mounds or going down into a hollow the mower tended to lift as the nose of the tractor went down.
I overcame it by lengthening the top link so that the mower could drop lower as needed. It now floats nicely behind my tractor but it took me a few setting changes on all links to get it to what I regard as perfect now. A hydraulic link would have been nice, but now I have it set correctly I won't need to touch it again anyway. Maybe a short length of chain like some use on a Rotary mower could be useful. I don't have a slotted top link but it works fine as is.

 

[sodamo]

Aloha Andre

Have to pretty much agree with the previous posters. I found the hydraulic toplink most useful early on when mowing areas that likely had never been mowed before. With my new flail I don't anticipate needing as much unless I start mowing virgin areas again. I did get a couple hours in today and the fixed link in the slot did well. I did note that the new mower hangs differently on my tractor and noticed the balance was different on the slopes. Probably good in that I will pay attention, adjust my operation rather than be complacent. Given my terrain, I'm feeling that the 78inch is likely the max I can use, still possible one skid or the other might be a bit lower and make a cut if I'm not careful. I could avoid some of that with the hydraulic toplink, easy to adjust in those certain spots rather than lifting with the 3point. I did find the hydraulic offset interesting to use. Quite helpful in some area, like getting closer under tree branches, but a bit challenging at full offset along my fence line due to the variations in the fence and the various plantings. I have a few areas where the thought of a tilt cylinder are enticing, but not enough to overcome my budget. I am looking at the possibility of a 2nd function diverter. I have the double remotes on my CK30 but not my DX35. I don't envision mounting this flail on the Kioti, but keep it on the DX.

 

[Kiotidriver]

Thank you Island Tractor. I do have a pair of remote hydraulic ports at the back of my tractor since it came with a backhoe. Upon removing the backhoe from the tractor frame, I will use them to connect the offset mechanism on my new Flail Mower. Speaking of remote hydraulic ports, I hear people talking about closed loop, I guess it means the fluid goes from one port, goes to the implement (like the backhoe hydraulic system) and returns to the sump via the other port. Now what happens when your implement uses only one cylinder (extend/retract)? Is there any other type of port than the closed loop type? I hope what I’m saying makes sense.

 

[Kiotidriver]

David.
Great pictures of your new mower. What cutting height are you using? It seems you are cutting your grass pretty low. I would like to set the cutting height at ~ 6 on my mower so I don't hit half buried stones. My land is mostly pasture with a lot of bad grass.
On another subject, while driving North on Hwy 19 a few miles after Pepeeko we saw a plantation but we are not sure what it is. Any idea?

 

[sodamo]

Thanks
I left it at the factory height. I want a short cut, grass can really grow fast here with the he rain and sun. If I cut at 6, it would be a constant job LOL. I've been cutting this area since 2005 when it was just overgrown pasture, formerly cane field. I know where the rocks are, the ones I have to raise to go over, the ones that the knives brush.

Not sure what you mean by plantation. There are buildings left from the sugar plantation days, but no active plantations.
Lots of farms growing a variety of products and cattle.

David Sent from my iPad Air using TractorByNet

 

[whirly]

That is 24 ac of Ti plants. The leaves are used in floral decorations and Hawaiian garments. The stalks are packaged and sold for folks to grow their own ti plants. Any part of the stalk will grow a plant ... just add water and soil.

 

[IslandTractor]

I don't have a hydraulic top link but I noticed when going over little mounds or going down into a hollow the mower tended to lift as the nose of the tractor went down. I overcame it by lengthening the top link so that the mower could drop lower as needed. It now floats nicely behind my tractor but it took me a few setting changes on all links to get it to what I regard as perfect now. A hydraulic link would have been nice, but now I have it set correctly I won't need to touch it again anyway. Maybe a short length of chain like some use on a Rotary mower could be useful. I don't have a slotted top link but it works fine as is.

I'm surprised your mower doesn't have a slot. Ideally the topping lift should be to a slot. That allows the mower to adjust automatically to slight variations in terrain and keeps the rear roller on the ground where it should be. The topping lift is mostly irrelevant for flail mowing as you'd use the 3PT arms to lift over an obstruction or for travel. Chain would work but you'd need to get the length right so you could lift for transport and to clear obstructions.

 

[IslandTractor]

Thank you Island Tractor. I do have a pair of remote hydraulic ports at the back of my tractor since it came with a backhoe. Upon removing the backhoe from the tractor frame, I will use them to connect the offset mechanism on my new Flail Mower. Speaking of remote hydraulic ports, I hear people talking about closed loop, I guess it means the fluid goes from one port, goes to the implement (like the backhoe hydraulic system) and returns to the sump via the other port. Now what happens when your implement uses only one cylinder (extend/retract)? Is there any other type of port than the closed loop type? I hope what I’m saying makes sense.

Almost all implements use closed loop connections, even single cylinders. That's what allows you to provide force in each direction of cylinder movement. A few devices don't need bidirectional power and those have the option of either closed loop or simply returning the fluid directly to a low pressure sump. I'm no expert on hydraulics so you might get a better explanation from JJ or one of the other guys. Bottom line though is that virtually any hydraulic implement on a tractor can be run off a pair of ports.

 

[Kiotidriver]

That is 24 ac of Ti plants. The leaves are used in floral decorations and Hawaiian garments. The stalks are packaged and sold for folks to grow their own ti plants. Any part of the stalk will grow a plant ... just add water and soil.

Thank you Whirly. I googled Ti plants to see the flowers, they are beautiful. We saw some in bloom at the Hawaii Tropical Botanical Garden on Old Mamalohoa Hwy. Andre

 

[Kiotidriver]

Almost all implements use closed loop connections, even single cylinders. That's what allows you to provide force in each direction of cylinder movement. A few devices don't need bidirectional power and those have the option of either closed loop or simply returning the fluid directly to a low pressure sump. I'm no expert on hydraulics so you might get a better explanation from JJ or one of the other guys. Bottom line though is that virtually any hydraulic implement on a tractor can be run off a pair of ports.

Island Tractor,
If the fluid in a hydraulic close loop is prevented to circulate, the fluid will overheat. Take the case of my flail mower extender cylinder connected to the auxiliary control valve (a close loop system). Assuming I move the selector to B (see picture) and the cylinder extends to full travel, at this point it becomes a dead end for the oil (no return path to the sump). Pump pressure will build up in Port B as long as the selector is left in position B. To prevent an excessive pressure buildup the main relief valve will open, and bleed some oil back to the sump. However since the relief valve is a flow restrictor the oil will quickly overheat. With my Kioti 30 HST hydraulic system I will need to return the selector to N (Neutral) as soon as the cylinder has reached full extension or retraction. I had a firsthand bad experience with this phenomenon just after buying my tractor from an estate sale. No one was able to explain to me the peculiarity of the tractor and the closest dealer was more than 2 hours away from my location. I decided to remove the backhoe to service the tractor. I used the book that came with the backhoe to find the procedure, and followed the instructions to the letter. Upon removing the backhoe, I shut the tractor off and bled the pressure from the hydraulic lines by exercising each backhoe control lever. Then I disconnected the quick disconnects from Ports A and B at the back of the tractor (nowhere in the book did it mention to set the hydraulic selector to neutral). I restarted the tractor and pulled away, and drove it for almost 15 minutes until I saw smoke coming out of the Power Steering Unit (I had previously removed the instrument panel cover). I touched the steering unit and burnt my fingers. After talking with the dealer I understood the problem. By disconnecting Ports A and B without setting the auxiliary control lever to Neutral, I had interrupted the closed loop circuit and hence caused the relief valve to open and the oil to overheat. I immediately replaced the HST fluid and filters. So far the tractor has not displayed any permanent damage to the hydraulic system. I hope some (hydraulic) newbie will learn from of my mistake.
Andre

 

[sodamo]

I know very little about hydraulics , but I believe my FEL and backhoe levers do return to a neutral position when released. The lever to operate the flail hydraulics does not, I have to purposely do so. If I don't my 3pt will not lift. Not sure about the overheating, but would prefer not to find out, especially your way. David Sent from my iPad Air using TractorByNet

 

[Kiotidriver]

This is correct David, the FEL and the Backhoe joysticks are spring loaded to return to neutral position when not actuated, thus allowing the oil to circulate. The problem is when using the Auxiliary Control Valve like the one on my Kioti to actuate a hydraulic cylinder. The ACV is not controlled by a self centering lever but a lever with fixed positions (in my case A. N. B). I will contact the dealer and ask him if a joystick can be added to control implements with cylinders, like the flail offset extender or a hydraulic top link. It would be a safer way to operate the cylinder implement, just in case one suffers a senior moment. Andre